Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

Post not applicable

[edit on 10-4-2010 by maloy]

The fact that that many high level officials were on a single plane is in itself odd. Company's will routinely place different executives in different planes, so one plane crash can not knock out the entire leadership. And the fact that the plane was 26 years old is odd indeed. Just how poor is Poland, or more like, how poor are we supposed to think Poland is?

(Poland is ranked 30 according to this poll news.mongabay.com...)

Originally posted by harrytuttle
reply to post by maestro46

 

maestro46, check out the bottom half of my updated post!!!

You ask why would the pilot not pay attention to the warnings? Well the BBC map I copied from their article claims that 16 minutes before the crash, the aircraft lost communications!!

So there we have it ladies and gentlemen. 16 minutes before the crash, the plane lost communications, so it's impossible for "warnings" to have been provided to the pilot.

You heard it here first, on ATS!

This piece of information has not been repeated anywhere else but on this BBC map. Why? It's so important!


[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

Where did you take that info from?
There was NO SINGLE information about comm loss in polish media.
---

BTW - do not level Russians and their gvmt, never ever.
Russan people are not against polish people and polish people are not against russian people.

Thanks for warm words on ru forums for victims' families.
--

I am struggling with myself, but need to ask:
is technically possible to plant mobile ILS device in...woods?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by potential_problem]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by potential_problem]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by potential_problem]

It's a little too obvious to blame Russia. Come on, would they do something THAT obvious? If you ask me it sounds more like a U.S. or Israeli Psyop to down the plane so that Russia takes blame to ostracize Russia even more against Nato/EU/the rest of the world.

Now they (Russians) need to reestablish the USSR style of control over Poland through a proxy/puppet leadership and government.

And without having the US in the way... anything is possible.

The Obama administration is not a problem, in fact seems as though they have been taking orders from Russia for a while now.

edition.cnn.com...

A spokeswoman at the Polish Ministry of Defense also said the program had been suspended.

"This is catastrophic for Poland," said the spokeswoman, who declined to be named in line with ministry policy.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Gen. James E. Cartwright, who is vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, are scheduled to hold a news conference Thursday morning. The Defense Department has not announced what will be discussed, but Cartwright is the point man for the missile defense shield program.

Poland and the Czech Republic had based much of their future security policy on getting the missile defenses from the United States. The countries share deep concerns of a future military threat from the east -- namely, Russia -- and may now look for other defense assurances from their NATO allies.

"At the NATO summit in April, we adopted a resolution focusing on building a defense system against real, existing threats, i.e. short-range and medium-range missiles," Fischer said. "We expect that the United States will continue cooperating with the Czech Republic on concluding the relevant agreements on our mutual (research and development) and military collaboration, including the financing of specific projects"

Good times for communism in both the USA and Russia.

Oh, and I am sure this plane crash was an unfortunate accident.

Originally posted by SyphonX
Conspiracy theories or not, you're trying to tell people to not ask questions. I don't understand this, sorry.

You misunderstood me then. Ask questions, but don't jump to conclusions.

See one could say:

"There is a strange discrepancy in BBC's report, about the communications cut off. It makes little sense, but is suspect. Has anybody confirmed this from primary sources?"

Instead of:

"The communication were cut off 16 minutes before the crash. There is foul play involved and this was clearly not an accident. We are being lied to and this is a master cover-up. Am I a genious for uncovering it or what?"


See what I mean?

Originally posted by SyphonX
Do you think the heads of state across all countries in Europe, and abroad, including Canada and the US are telling their people to not suspect anything? Do you think they are telling their intelligence sector to stand down, and not investigate further?

No. Everyone will be independently investigating this disaster for Months, maybe years, maybe forever. Every 1st world country on the planet is considering this as possible foul play, because it is an incredibly high-profile loss of life.

Right. But what I said that it is best to withhold judgement and undercooked conclusions until actual facts are known and substantiated. This may be seen as disrespectful to victims. At this time they should be mourned, and there is not enough information to make this into sensationalism.

Originally posted by SyphonX
Fact of life, is that tragedies need to be speculated on, in order to learn and adapt.

I disagree, especially in the immediate aftermath. Debating the facts is one thing. Speculating usually involves people twisting the events to fit their own opinion or agenda, and does nothing to further the understanding of the event or help reconcile it.

reply to post by maestro46

Okay, Go to the BBC News website.

In their search box, use this headline to search with:

Polish President Lech Kaczynski dies in plane crash

The first link that comes up is titled:

Polish leader dies in plane crash

Click on that link. The web page should end with "8612825.stm"

Or remove the quotes from this and post it in your browser's address field: "http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm"



[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Now they (Russians) need to reestablish the USSR style of control over Poland through a proxy/puppet leadership and government.

And without having the US in the way... anything is possible.

The Obama administration is not a problem, in fact seems as though they have been taking orders from Russia for a while now.

Russia establishing a Pro Russian government in an EU/NATO country? In Poland, which is anything but pro Russian? You really think this is possible?

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Oh, and I am sure this plane crash was an unfortunate accident.

Sarcasm, or no?

Regards,
Maestro

Reports now on Finnish tv channel mtv3, is stating that the presiden had requested his own plane but it was refused by Tusk, the only man to have the power to do so. They are also stating the difficulties between them and the fact he kept delaying on the presidents security.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Now they (Russians) need to reestablish the USSR style of control over Poland through a proxy/puppet leadership and government.

Brilliant. How do you establish that logic again?

Why or how would the death of the Polish President and political elite, allow Russia to establish control over Poland? It is not like the entire adult population of Poland has disappeared. It is still a NATO state, it still has a Prime Minister, and it still has a Parliament.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
And without having the US in the way... anything is possible.

The Obama administration is not a problem, in fact seems as though they have been taking orders from Russia for a while now.

In that case I think Russia is better off going straight for the US, and landing paratroopers in Washington.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Now they (Russians) need to reestablish the USSR style of control over Poland through a proxy/puppet leadership and government.

And without having the US in the way... anything is possible.

The Obama administration is not a problem, in fact seems as though they have been taking orders from Russia for a while now.

edition.cnn.com...


Good times for communism in both the USA and Russia.

Oh, and I am sure this plane crash was an unfortunate accident.

One of the dumbest comments I ever reed on this forum. You show completely lack of understanding our reality. What you write is some old fission # from the scenario of some kind loo budget film. Russians have far much better understanding of our situation than US. Sometimes I wonder why we take care about what such people like you are thinking?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by odyseusz]

reply to post by maestro46


Yes it is possible.

No, not sarcasm just the obvious oucome of any official investigation.

reply to post by potential_problem
I got it from the BBC graphic at the BBC News website (I post the URL because for some reason ATS's hyperlink functionality is working for people.)

So if this link doesn't work for you

then just copy/paste this URL into your browser's address bar without the quotation marks:
"http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8612825.stm"

The graphic is at the bottom of the news article. It's been there for the past 1.5 hours, so they have had it up for a while without retraction, so it must be valid information.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

Thanks, harrytuttle, appreciate that.

btw i have weird interent problems today, i think that MANY people are searching for alt info about this...

interesting, that net media are faster than official ones.


[edit on 10-4-2010 by potential_problem]

I can't believe this....

I had a dream about a plane crash this morning...and the most vivid image i remember was a Solidarność flag.


just...wow. i am speechless. my prayers go out to my polish brothers and sisters!

[edit on 10/4/2010 by InnerTruths]

Originally posted by LestatG
Reports now on Finnish tv channel mtv3, is stating that the presiden had requested his own plane but it was refused by Tusk, the only man to have the power to do so. They are also stating the difficulties between them and the fact he kept delaying on the presidents security.

Well now we are cooking...

In the RT video link maestro provided, I found it interesting that (at the last minute) their were extra guests added to the plane. Quite a few if the journalists were put on another plane. It said that the change was at the request of the president. Why? Hmmm, last minute changes always make me question things.

reply to post by potential_problem
You are welcome.

And just in case the BBC ever removes the graphic or webpage, I got a screen grab of it for posterity, and it sits firmly in the ATS media vault for perpetuity.

BBC screen grab - notice map graphic near bottom

They still haven't retracted that piece of information about the plane losing communications 16 minutes before it crashed.


[edit on 10-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

reply to post by harrytuttle


Good work here on ATS.

If communication was really lost 16 mins before crash, we do have something to worry about. But if its the only controversial fact - its very difficult to build anything avove just that.

Thanks!