Wikileaks Video Released!!

Originally posted by December_Rain
I just found out the United States Army Enemy Identification Guide

hahaha i assume that was top secret level Rules Of Enguagement, to keep the media from reporting what really is going on, cause we all know we're funding a mis guided occupation,

in both Iraq and Afghanistan, for either control of the region's OIL, shieling Isreal, setting up empire base for future attacks on Iran, and protecting "big pharma's" opaites, for further sedatives so the population can't rise against the powers that be...

the ONION seems to know whats up:

www.theonion.com...

On another thread on ATS, someone posted this link. Not sure if it was posted on this thread yet:

mypetjawa.mu.nu...

In that video clip, you can clearly see the guy with an RPG.

This has just been shown on the BBC.

Their tone was that the soldiers were correct saying "it's not surprising that it happened in such confusing circumstances"

etc etc .............

Originally posted by jerico65
On another thread on ATS, someone posted this link. Not sure if it was posted on this thread yet:

mypetjawa.mu.nu...

In that video clip, you can clearly see the guy with an RPG.

Yes, you can clearly see it, we can, it's obvious but others on here refuse to accept it, they can't get past seeing cameras..

reply to post by clownsroundhere


Some people cannot get past the shooting of a wounded man crawling or a van with children there to collect the wounded or even the fact that we are there shooting anyone anyway, regardless of what they some of them were carrying.

Originally posted by K J Gunderson
Some people cannot get past the shooting of a wounded man crawling or a van with children there to collect the wounded or even the fact that we are there shooting anyone anyway, regardless of what they some of them were carrying.

(removed smart ass remark. Not appropriate)

OK, the van. It comes rolling up to the scene.

Any markings on it? Anything like a Red Cross, Red Crescent, Red Lion? Anythign to show it's there to help, and not that it might be full of insurgents?

Nope, it didn't. Did the helicopter have to shoot it? Well, I honestly don't know. My opinion is that they should have waited, but I wasn't there.

And since when is a battlefield the time to do a "take your kid to work day" event?

[edit on 8-4-2010 by jerico65]

Originally posted by jerico65
(removed smart ass remark. Not appropriate)

OK, the van. It comes rolling up to the scene.

Any markings on it? Anything like a Red Cross, Red Crescent, Red Lion? Anythign to show it's there to help, and not that it might be full of insurgents?

They watched the van stop and empty. They identified that the occupants were trying to rescue the dead and had children on board. THEN THEY FIRED.

Aside from the fact that driving a van in their own country is not against any laws unless you can show otherwise.

Nope, it didn't. Did the helicopter have to shoot it? Well, I honestly don't know. My opinion is that they should have waited, but I wasn't there.

Then watch the video because they did wait. They waited long enough to clearly identify it was NOT A THREAT before opening fire. That is my problem.

And since when is a battlefield the time to do a "take your kid to work day" event?

[edit on 8-4-2010 by jerico65]

Since when do you get to define what is and is not a "battlefield." I am pretty sure those people just call it "home."

reply to post by jerico65


How was it a battlefield honestly?

If a battle was being fought, I would have imagined the men to fire back, but no they didn't.

It was just a completely one sided massacre.

it's a big different between camera and gun/rpg,
but i hardly identify what they were holding in the video ......

reply to post by K J Gunderson

Since when do you get to define what is and is not a "battlefield." I am pretty sure those people just call it "home."

Right on. I am afraid that that simple point escapes a lot of people on this thread -- the fact the area is "home" for people. Just because the US decided to go attack them doesn't mean it ceases to be the only place those individuals have to live. Their need to continue living a life as normal as possible doesn't cease.

Their need to sleep, eat, work, shop and go to school somewhere doesn't suddenly go away. Most of them are still just citizens and didn't all switch to being combatants just cuz the US says so.

The ignorance of some of our people amazes me. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Bin-Laden and 15 of the (supposed) hijackers were Saudi. Yet none of you "Patriots" have mentioned a word about them in the almost 10 yrs since 9-11. And for you brainiacs that keep saying "remember all those Iraqi's dancing in the streets on 9-11?" It was Palestinians dancing in the street. You keep trying to justify the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians with all these reasons that you seem to just be making up in your mind. Do you kick the mailman when the paperboy forgets to deliver your Sunday paper too? Your willful ignorance, hatred, and bloodlust are a disgrace.

And didn't the Pentagon themselves say that none of the men killed in the video were armed or insurgents? Why all this continued debating about whether the camera was an RPG?

and now even the pentagon accept that the video was genuine and a investigation will be done, yeah right an in ccn the tone in which they threat this video is like... "well this is just a reminder of was terrible can be war.." yeah right... war o invasion???

reply to post by jerico65




Please stop trying to defend the indefensible


Not just you but Anyone trying to defend this.

I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but here we go:



www.youtube.com...

It shows a short interview of the 2 wounded children and their mother, dating April 2010.

reply to post by Chillidog1

This thread is not about ignorance of people on ATS that you disagree with or you spewing hatred. This thread is also not a discussion about the Iraq war. This thread is about a leaked video and us here at ATS trying to determine what happened by watching the video.

Originally posted by C0bzz
Flagged and starred.

I really don't know what to say. Well, I"m disgusted. I feel sick. I am angry that such stupidity can occur. The helicopter essentially fires on a group of unarmed people for no reason. Although some people looked like they had guns, they were for the most part unarmed and completely peaceful. Then a Van comes and they shoot that too, killing children.

[edit on 5/4/2010 by C0bzz]

I watched the video, and I did see one man with an AK-47. The thing is, I've seen on the Military channel, how our own soldiers say that all Iraqi men are allowed to carry weapons to defend themselves. So, why is having an AK-47 so bad...even if the US is fighting in the area. The Iraqis surely do not know what is going on if they hear gunfire. I mean, if they were an insurgent force, they would be well armed, and would not be out in the open. Insurgents are not that stupid, and know what kind of forces the US can bring to bear. The sad thing is that most of the men that were slaughtered had no weapons. If our own soldiers cannot distinguish a medium sized camera from a large RPG, we are in serious trouble. Poor training, horrific SA (situational awareness), lowbrow humor (unacceptable in my book while trying to size up a military action in an urban area)...I could go on and on.

Our soldiers have the best technology in the world, yet do not utilize it in the way that it should be utilized. The Apache pilots were in no real danger, yet acted as if the unarmed men were ready to sprout wings and fly up in the air to attack them. They had all the time in the world, even if US troops were near. US troops were not being engaged by this group of men, and civilians (who are allowed to carry weaponry), should not be fair game in an urban area, unless they are actively engaging our troops.

Oh, and you said the kids were dead. No, they actually survived...the boy and the girl are alive and well, with only mental/physical scars to show for it. It's quite amazing, really. Watch the video again, and notice how accurate those 30mm shells are in the initial firing on the group of men (I know, it made me sick, but you should do this). Then watch when they fire on the van with the kids. The 30mm shells go all over the place, compared to all previous firings, even though the helicopter itself does not seem to be experiencing movement. One shell, even goes way off course, to the left of the van. Is this the sign of something higher protecting these small children? I believe so (I believe in God, but I am of no established religion...I have my own belief system). It is almost as if someone pushes some of the shells away from the van. The van should have been completely torn to pieces, as 30mm shells can destroy armored vehicles when firing from that high. This is a paper thin van.

So, what should be done? I think that whatever division these men are a part of should have it's leadership sacked. No real questions from HQ about what the Apache pilots were firing at...just an automatic yes? Refusing small children aid, when it was our own fault they were hurt? More poor leadership. Then the cover up, obviously poor leadership trying to cover up their poor leadership.

We shouldn't even be over there anymore, I am so tired of hearing that we are there. This only proves why we shouldn't be there.



[edit on 10-4-2010 by Yog-Sothoth]

I see alot of ragging on this and yes hind sight is absolutely horrible. So i took a version of the video and showed it to some family and friends. I know even with labels and having seen other footage from that distance also taking into account the sun glare the people in the heli were getting not to mention they probably had some sort of head gear and or goggles on to make even further difficult and the screens in those things are fairly poor and low res as it is. I didnt even see the kids until they were pointed out to me and i saw nothing that defined those things over their shoulders as cameras and out when it is aimed directly around the corner it thought to myself it look like an rpg before it was even said. Also how many iraqis do you think are running around with 3 ft $1000 cameras. personally i would have made all the same assumptions. Yet another point iraqis dont have a national identity so to say that oph those people were just help out their country men... not likely. It is rare for anyone to help anyone outside of their own family or tribe. otherwise as everyone knows there you stand a good chance of getting caught in the crossfire which is usually shii against sunni. But back to as i was say i showed a copy with out all the little arrows and such to family and friends and not one of them was able to point out children or cameras or anything of the sort. did we find the situation upsetting of course we all did and non of us agree with the war either. but you are condemning people with hind sight. What enrages me is not the act however but the lack of remorse and ignorant bliss of everyone that made a press release regarding the incident. Yes hind sight is was horrible but lets be realistic how many of you could see cameras and children withouth them being pointed out to you.

I just heard from a very trustworthy source that this incident actually COULD have been an ordered HIT-JOB against a whistleblower!

That would be just INCREDIBLE!

Hope we hear more information about this soon!




[edit on 10-4-2010 by Chevalerous]

Originally posted by joel.ohman
I see alot of ragging on this and yes hind sight is absolutely horrible. So i took a version of the video and showed it to some family and friends. I know even with labels and having seen other footage from that distance also taking into account the sun glare the people in the heli were getting not to mention they probably had some sort of head gear and or goggles on to make even further difficult and the screens in those things are fairly poor and low res as it is. I didnt even see the kids until they were pointed out to me and i saw nothing that defined those things over their shoulders as cameras and out when it is aimed directly around the corner it thought to myself it look like an rpg before it was even said. Also how many iraqis do you think are running around with 3 ft $1000 cameras. personally i would have made all the same assumptions. Yet another point iraqis dont have a national identity so to say that oph those people were just help out their country men... not likely. It is rare for anyone to help anyone outside of their own family or tribe. otherwise as everyone knows there you stand a good chance of getting caught in the crossfire which is usually shii against sunni. But back to as i was say i showed a copy with out all the little arrows and such to family and friends and not one of them was able to point out children or cameras or anything of the sort. did we find the situation upsetting of course we all did and non of us agree with the war either. but you are condemning people with hind sight. What enrages me is not the act however but the lack of remorse and ignorant bliss of everyone that made a press release regarding the incident. Yes hind sight is was horrible but lets be realistic how many of you could see cameras and children withouth them being pointed out to you.

So much wrong with this post.

I'll let you have the argument that they don't see the kids. I don't even think they really did, they were so juiced. But, that's kinda the point...right? We understand when grunts get juiced, as they are in the ****. But, these are Apache pilots, 800-1k feet away, not being fired upon, and obviously not even being noticed by anyone on the ground or in the air. They have all day to determine what is going on. Any other determination of this key factor is invalid. It is quite obvious that they are not scared of anything, or anyone. Just a little too bloodthirsty.

You are wrong about the tech, my friend. The video is just fine, and you can easily make out whether someone has a camera( they are not 3 feet long, do you even realize how ridicuous an assumption that is), or a RPG. Carrying it slung on a man's back, you can easily see it swaying behind him no matter how tall or short he is...unless he is a 20 foot tall giant.

And, you make assumptions about Iraqis, as if they aren't even human. You do realize there are Christian Iraqis...there are more than just Shia and Sunni...more than just Muslims living there. Don't be brain washed by the mass media, who make all Iraqis look like zealots/non-human. We don't even have a clue, but what if the guy was Christian, and was helping his fellow man. You don't know, I don't know, but it is obvious the guy was just trying to help. It isn't stated anywhere that weapons were found in the van, and you can be **** sure that if they were, the military would have reported that in a minute.

The sad truth is that the SA shown by the pilot and gunner of that Apache was close to zero. They were blinded by bloodlust, or just absolutely bored by all the killing they have done. A few more Iraqis, with something on, oh yeah it's an RPG, gotta kill em. If they had not been so juiced, and looked the situation over, it could have been different.

Or, maybe they were insurgents. All of them were going to a weapons stash...including two Reuters news reporters. I'm sure they had rocks, in case of an ambush...