Is this a discussion on terrorism or a US/Europe bashing fest?

If it's the bashing one, this'll head on over to the Mudpit, k?

-B.

Originally posted by mwm1331
BTW thematrix have you ever been to the U.S.? Ive been to belgium. I can compare can you? And you wanna talk about forcing views on people where does the Belgian government get the right to charge the american government for war crimes?!?!? Christ my home state of florida is bigger than your entire country.

What does size have to do with anything?

I have worked, lived and been on extended holidays in the US.

About the war crimes law we have, read up on it before making statements about it. Everyone has the right to bring anyone else to justice, especialy if its about something as bad as dispicable behaviour during war. Thats actualy part of what YOU are saying yourself, that the US should punish(you actualy say kill, but punish is better) everyone who does something wrong against them or another nation.

And then, I have to agree with whats said a bit higher, mwm, the way you talk, what you say, the image you have of the world and the conclusions you pull from thin air make me wonder if you aren't more a 12-16 year old wanabee patriot, instead of a grownup person that actualy does work and has the power to think outside the box.

Patriotisme is fighting for the rights and value of the people of your country, not to defend whatever your goverment tells you to believe.

The people of the arab nations are the real patriots, they fight for what they believe in, they fight for their homeland, for their country. Not all the people fighting in Iraq are terrorists, they just feel the US invaded them and want their country back.

I even think one of the founding fathers said something about never stop questioning what the US goverment does and be assured that at times the goverment needs to be pulled in line, because THEY WILL abuse the power given to them by the people.

Drunk the problem is that we arnt going far enough Like I said earlier we shoulf have leveld Najaf.

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by drunk]

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by drunk]

the matrix if you believe that the belgian government has the right to charge the leaders of the united states for incidents outside your courts jurisdiction (I.E. not taking place on belgian soil or being done to belgian citizens) your nuts By that logic OBL could charge the belgian P.M for cheering any cheer except the Islam allowed cheer (allahu akbar by the way anything else is grounds for stoning in shariah courts)at a soccer match.

Besides at the end of the day The only peoples freedom I care about is the americans The belgians can do whatever they want in belgium but when people attack and/or threaten our intersest and llies (including Isreal) we have every right to crush them.

Errrr forget my earlier post Banshee you maybe right

GUYS IT DOES SEEM THAT THIS HEADING TOWARDS BASHING CAN WE PLEASE KEEP AWAY FROM THAT UNLESS YOU WANT IT MOVED TO MUDPIT

::cough::I tried to bring it back on topic, but I guess it didn't work::cough::

But yeah... This is about terrorism vs terrorism, not Belgium vs USA.

look The reasom I say these people are subhuman is this for example in fundamental islamic countries the punishment a woman recieves for BEING RAPED is to be beat by her sons and husband. If a man accuses his wife of adultry she is stoned, no trial no nothing his word is law hers is the sound of the wind in the trees. You cannot reason with , teach or be kind to people like this all you can do is kill them or make them fear you enough not to have to
anyway I use the computer at work and I'm done for the day so well pick this up tomorrow.

Bottom line they ONLY understand Brutality of the most vicious kind and unless we are willing to be more brutal, more violient and more sociopathic, we will always be targets.
Nuke the desert and switch to biodiesal

The nuke theory is crazy sorry to say do you want a world war to start?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Didnt the german auto workers just strike for ( im not kidding) a 35 hour work week as opposed to a 40? Germans get more vacation time than anyone in the world and thier still not happy. You people set the financial standards for the E.U. and YOU cant live up to them. Your economy is in a Yeah your government pays for hosptal, retirement, and what not but thats the difference, They have to you cant fend for yourselves. higher debt than the standards you set, most of your major corporations are in serious trouble because you people cant run a successful business, and on top of it all you want to tell Us how to run a country? Tell you what when you can stop people from seeling children on ebay well talk.

The ebay-incident was a joke but how can somebody like you understand it. I assume there is no more room for humour in your head as it is all needed for blind patriotism.

Less hours, much holiday - yea, might be true but you can also say: we work more efficient. And I really don't consider it a minus for Germany that in my country people don't need to work more than 10h a day to maintain a living.

"Yeah your government pays for hosptal, retirement, and what not but thats the difference, They have to you cant fend for yourselves." - Ahm, wrong observation but still leads to me to conclusion you are very young. In Germany the whole system was based on the idea that all pay a bit more taxes but the state secures everybodies health when there is the need. Other countries decided on lower taxes but that healthcare etc is everybody's private issue.
Both systems have pro's and con's - you dare to compare?

"most of your major corporations are in serious trouble because you people cant run a successful business"
- proof me with statistics that most of Germans major corps are in serious trouble and Germans cant run a successful business.

Oh, as you won't be able to, I suggest you go on watching Sesamestreet

This people want us in the western civilisation dead...simple as that, you, me, your parents, your siblings and family and friends...western civilisation represents evil in the fundamentalist islamic view...there are moderate and tolerant islamists to be sure, but the ones who danced in the streets and celebrated after the 911 attacks in Palistine, Iran, Iraq and other islamic cities are islamic fundamental sociopaths, islamofacsists, no matter what there age are gender....hence....next time the western world is attacked, and these idiots take to the streets for the cameras' to celebrate, thats the time to strike them when there come out of the woodwork....small neutron weapons, to leave the infrastructure intact for the tolerant souls who want to live in peace with those that have different values then their own culture, the good muslims who are too afraid to speak up against the armed gangsters who intimidated them now....Thats Terrorism vs Terrorism, not planned suicide missions of our own....

Mwm, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree.


The bottom line, if you nuke everyone that wishes the us harm. There wil be no one left at the end.

Im afraid that there is going to be someone in a hight place that is going to feel the same way. And well, thats history.

Just like the romans, the US will fall to greed, power and hunger. It only going to seem like it happened over night.

I agree with mwm

They attack a western country and back their they are glorifyed

We attack a eastern country and our own people (Media) turn on us

A general in the US once exicuted 39 Islamic terrorists i think with a bullet covered in pigs blood (Muslims believe having pigs Blood on you when you die will send you to hell due to it being "Dirty") he exicted 39 and let 1 go back to the middle east or where he came from their wasnt another terrorist attack on America by Islam for around another 40/50 years

(Carnt remember exact but it was true)

The only problem with the west is that they have the tech but are too cowardly to use it

Civilians are the ones that work and pay into a system and that system provides the economics for that country with out the civilians their economic system is destroyed and so is their country

They are the clogs that make the system work

War is never about being equal its about who wins

Originally posted by mwm1331
Instead of negotiating with Al sadr we should have killed him and every citizen in Najaf, destoyed every building slaughtered all the animals and salted (or radiated) the earth so that nothing else could ever live thier agin

Ladies and gentlemen, it is my honor to introduce The Honorable Mr. Richard Cheney.

Seriously, are you nuts? Most of Najaf is on OUR SIDE! 10% of Islam may be fundamentalist, and that equals like a few hundred million people who we need to destroy on sight. The other 90% we probably shouldn't piss off anymore than need be.
We should go into the mosques, we should interrogate prisoners, we should force Iraq to do a few key things our way (like letting non-muslims and women keep their heads), and then we should give them their country back ASAP, without salting or nuking anything. It doesn't have to be perfect. There's a lot to be desired from the conduct of American corporations, Canada, Russia, and the White House, but we don't carry out a military occupation in any of those places to micro-manage every little problem.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Originally posted by scottsquared
We could easily end Islamic terror by bailing out of their historic Homeland entirely. Cut all interests in the region, no more reason for them to attack us. PERIOD!

And on the flip side of the coin, would it be acceptable to demand that anyone from that region of the world be forced to LEAVE the US immediately and entirely?


[Edited on 3-6-2004 by jsobecky]

Sounds like the flip side of a different coin.

It is Western influence tha incites Islamic Fundamentalists to attack us. Hence, removal of said influence removes the cause at it's source. There is too much Money and Pride invested in the Mid East for us to just back out. Why does Logic defeat the average American Thought Process?

Originally posted by scottsquared
It is Western influence tha incites Islamic Fundamentalists to attack us. Hence, removal of said influence removes the cause at it's source. There is too much Money and Pride invested in the Mid East for us to just back out. Why does Logic defeat the average American Thought Process?

So you are saying that your proposed solution could never be put into practice because there is too much Money and Pride invested? If so, why did you bother posting it?

Nice dancing to get around answering the question I posed.


[Edited on 3-6-2004 by jsobecky]

Originally posted by SpittinCobra I am 100% honest, when I say," If Bush was not in office, 9-11 wouldnt have happen. And I am not the only here that feels this way.
.

you are wrong, i mean dont you remember how many terrorist attacks on american buildings all over from al queda before bush or even before his father, regan and even earlier, a major attack was inevitable after 30 plus years of terrorism by many groups, 9/11 was planned years ahead, even in the 93 attack it was al queda linked, it wouldnt have mattered who was elected, if anyone here remembers before 9/11 bush had plans to reduce forces over seas, he was doing many things at home and things were better with leaders and things were ok, honestly i think bush acted how he thought we wanted, i think he assumed many wanted revenge and to take things to the enemy...then of course i think things just expanded from there.

jsobeckey,

My proposal for ending Islamic Terror is doomed to failure because "People" are too freakin' Greedy, Arrogant, and egotistical to ever end the fighting over The Mid-East Oil and Holy Sites.

Why bother to post a solution that may in fact be impracticable? I thought this was a philisophical debate about Terrorism. I believe that the premise was in favor of attacking "Terrorists" with "Terrorist" tactics.

I have argued against such a proposed doctrine. You cannot MORALY justify lowering yourselves to the level of the Terrorists. In answer to your question/suggestion about your little Western Round-up, I have a question for you: Where do you draw the line between who is expelled from this country and who is allowed to stay? Are you going to intern second generation Arab-Americans? Jews? Muslims? Anyone with any Semitic blood or maybe just a big nose?

It's one thing to spout-off(tongue-in-cheek)"That We should just NUKE the Middle East and stick a gas pump in." That is obviously an overstatement. Please don't try to make any quasi-legal, certainly immoral arguments in favor of this riddiculous proposal.

I thought We were supposed to have the moral high-ground in this war on Terror!?!




[Edited on 3-6-2004 by scottsquared]