Ten Signs You Are An Unquestioning Christian

Originally posted by jagdflieger
reply to post by ashanu90

 

The question of what is evil and what is sin runs much more deeply than what most Christians and others would like to think. The problem is that we tend to look at the world through our perspective rather than God's. You might think that your life is going great, but are you a perfect person. I do not think so. I sure know that I am not perfect. The point is that even though you are doing ok, have you commited no sins. I don't think so. Well the basic Christian belief is that we all sinned. God requires a penalty for sin (no if ands of buts). The penalty for sin is internal separation from God (or Hell). The penalty for sin was applied to Jesus when He died on the cross. That atonement is available for the asking as a gift from God. All we need to do is ask. Believe what you want to believe, but basically it comes down to the question "In eternity do we want to be with God or not".

You ask do i want to be with God, I am part of God.
Walk on your Own, that IS the true test. Your Jesus taught this, he taught to go on the road less traveled, not the paved golden path which you and many are on. He taught that the kingdom of heaven is within. That statement right there proves that your Jesus also believes we all are part of the universe we are ONE. No one, not even him is more important than the next living being. Do not put such petty labels on the universe as Jesus and Satan, good or bad. Why do you people continue to have to seek outside sources to feel validity? You are missing the teachings.

It takes good and evil to create a balance. We are all part of the universe. Everything IS what it IS. If you say that something is not worthy of living or should be abolished to the hell you created, then you are telling your own god his creation is worthless. That is quite ironic. Evil needs to be in place just as good. It is a learning environment here, its time for you to get out of preschool and take full responsibility for yourselves. Stop thinking that it takes forgiveness from an outside entity. The forgiveness is of thy self.
Last but not least, you should probably consider not judging, because that is within your Bible and that will condemn you to a sin in your own head. Wake up and be free.

Its Ironic really,
those who have LOVE in their Heart know that LOVE is God.

No need for religion this religion that, this holy book, that holy book, just a bed time story.

Take it easy, EVERYTHING is all right!

Originally posted by knowonder
HOW DARE YOU!!! how dare you knock our religion just because you dont believe!!! going on and on how it is wrong to rape little boys and commit genocide..... I dont understand this has been done since god finish this little project that took him 7 DAYS......

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sorry can't do it ne more... now i think i am christian esque if that makes since.... but i just cant get down with the current rendition of the good book... there are too many discrepancies in it and mistranslations. i think that it makes a good guide book on how to be a generic okay person (aside from murder rape and pillage) but is too far removed from the orginal author's to make ne real connection with the original religion.

shoot there was a group of people PEOPLE who got to pick and choose what went into the bible. what about the other books that didn't make the cut? that didn't reinforce that particular groups dogma? just because the church at that time decided that those books were wrong meant they were wrong? the church is run by humans = flawed species.

for me there are just too many discrepancies to believe and trust in the institution that we call church. just a few are listed in my rant in the previous paragraphs.

Yup I starred it, it was me! Right on!

reply to post by impaired


As I have said many times, I believe what I want. I understand there are many among us who don't. Need I remind everyone that despite our differences of faith we are still people, living on the same planet with each other, and are not leaving any time soon. We really need to focus on the betterment of the world if for no other reason.

I don't care if someone pushes their religion to you. At least they are passionate in their endeavors. They have a drive, and most (excluding the more radical sects) really just want to make the world a better place. I'm sure when you come on to a topic you are interested in, you can rant out loud for hours. Everyone has that one subject at least. Personally I don't try to push, but I do explain when asked or even when the subject has been brought up. I don't think it is their intention to appall you or insult you, I think they just want to be heard, even if the topic is their religion. Why not listen to them? You might find that even though you don't agree with them, they are still good people and might have something to say.

Personally I think that people are more angry about religion because sometimes you get a knock on your door and it inconveniences you. God Forbid! Religion is an inconvenience, that is most likely why it makes so many people angry. This fact is proven to me every time someone says "well I wish they would just pray in a closet somewhere".

I guess that's what I find most insulting about this is not that it bashes what I believe in, (that is really on the person who wrote it.) it is because things like this turn peoples focus to another person's faith instead of their humanity. We have been divided through history on many fronts namely, race, origin, greed and creed. Standing divided has always done nothing but start trouble. Why push these divisions even more?

reply to post by yesIAM


Did I judge? All I said is that no one is perfect and all have sinned. However now I will judge. You are indeed guilty of the WORST SIN OF ALL. That to think that you are equal to God. You are not. That is how this whole mess began in the first place. Man thought that he was equal to God and could go his own way. Also Jesus never taught to go your own way. He was always seeking the Will of the Father.

1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.

haha so true. they get SOOOO MAD, but consider everything else to be a joke


just to stay in the middle, though, I'm willing to bet both their rival sects and people of different or no faith probably feel the same way about them.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by impaired

 

Great post.

I have no issue with the average Christian but the zealots that fit within these 10 points really set my blood to boiling. How someone can assert, on blind faith, that their religion is absolute truth and that they KNOW their beliefs are the truth is beyond me.

Sometimes I think human beings are fundamentally insane as a species... or that perhaps religious belief is some kind of community coalescing defense mechanism built in during our development and evolution.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Titen-Sxull]

You answered your own question there. Its called "FAITH" and if you don't believe your "truths" to be absolute then what is the point in following your chosen faith regardless if you a christian, muslim, athiest, etc?

[edit on 31-3-2010 by parrothead0333]

1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.

Are you saying all Christians do this? I don't.

2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

I don't feel 'insulted' and 'dehumanized'.

3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.

I don't laugh at polythesists. The rest of this doesn't truly offer an understanding of The Trinity.

4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.

I don't flinch? I'm assuming the person that wrote these does not know any Christians.

5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

I don't laugh at other people's religions.

6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.

Not willing to spend my life. I can't find anywhere in the Bible where pre historic tribesmen estimate the age of the world.

7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.

Whoever wrote these needs to understand what he is trying to 'overcome'. This doesn't sound like the spiritual practice I'm involved in.

8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.

I don't personally believe in speaking in tongues, and not all Christians believe in this either.

9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.

98% of all statistics are made up on the spot....

10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".

It seems whoever wrote this may know something about the Bible but doesn't know anything about any Christians, except some very broad generalizations.

reply to post by impaired


How do you have a "civilized discussion" when your goal is the elimination of a religion subscribed too by a third of the planets population?

There is nothing unique being presented here. No new argument(s). This is not about a conspiracy within the religion. Its just an attack.

I'd prefer that you just say it outright. You think we are all nuts and that Christianity is fake. How hard is that? No harm, no foul. Or, do you see yourself as a person trying to save us from ourselves and think you can get us to stop believing based on arguments that have been repeated a seemingly infinite number of times?

Do you have any "Conspiracies in Religions" you would like to discuss and proof of your position? That, I think, is the purpose of this forum; hence the name of this forum. It is not named the "bash your favorite religion for fun" forum.

Prove Christ did not exist. Prove there is no God. Perhaps you can save us all.

reply to post by DaMod


Wow, that is an awesome way to look at it and your right, why divide anymore?

I was thinking, If we all loved each other as we should and realized we are one, and we take care of each other, then we would need no government.
I mean really, if we do no harm, help each other out no matter what, we would have no need for laws, no need for government.... maybe thats why we are taught to FEAR each other, we are tricked into hiding behind walls both solid and in our mind. Maybe thats why the powers that be keep us in fear. What does this have to do with the topic? A LOT! NO MORE FEARING GOD or someone else's religion. No more fear what is different, LOVE not fear is what was taught by Christ, Buddha, Mohammed.. etc etc...

I think of Bill Hicks here, Its a choice between fear and love.

www.youtube.com...

I can't help but be sad for those who hate Christianity, because they care so much about something they put almost no effort into. It shows.

These ten questions are only one side of it. They pop up in many guises, often touting different extremes. They are also often addressed in wide formats, like this one, or in small groups where it is a very low risk of encountering an intelligent response from someone educated.

It is nothing more than a tactic of someone afraid of what answers they might get, and are really more about a quick pat on the back for reassurance. It is no different than those silly creationists who hide away and mock Darwin behind close doors. Same people, different subject.

Keep trying, as better men and women, both wiser, more intelligent and far more life experienced than you have both taken part in the great faith, and dissented and hated it without even putting a dent in its armor. It really is not a subject of intellectual superiority, though many would love to think so.

And it is not about what youtube documentary you have watched, or what fringe author told you that Jesus never existed, or that he did but never died, or that he was really an alien or an atlantean. It goes on and on.

In other words, if you really want answers to your questions it is far more about where you look for those answers in intention, than the answer themselves.

I can assure you, that everyone of these questions is not only addressed, but commonly so among thinkers, theologians, mystics and writers. All it really points out is a lack of education in an extremely complex subject. You can't just sit there, but you have to get dirty, and quite simply, most don't.

I have seen this over and over again, and has been going on since a Jewish carpenter put down his hammer, and told us to love on another, even if they are the ones driving the nails into our flesh.

Whenever Jesus gets brought into these wide discussions, I truly believe that only the real thinkers can find there is a severe irony in all the countless ways Christ and his followers were wrong, on every front, from all angles.

How is it such a deformed, unintelligent and mythic thing ever survived this long?

The real thought starts there, I believe. But hey, what do I know? I am sure this post will be lost in the brevity of online contemplation, and most will go on harvesting the infinite source of unaccountable information, yielding the crop chosen beforehand.



[edit on 31-3-2010 by deinonychus]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by deinonychus]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by deinonychus]

Originally posted by SpectreDC
[

The problem here with these points is that just like some Christians, it asserts a dogmatic perspective that attacks anyone who does not accept them.

It's childish rhetorical questioning that while certainly brings up some valid criticism chooses to dress the criticism not from an objective point of view but from a non-religious point of view.

I do agree with this post, however, I think it's only fair to mention that they essentially started it. The church (and their believers, political or not) tend to impassion people to the point of absurdity.

Look at the Westboro Baptist Church, they're a religious hate group! That's only one of many groups who hide behind the guise of being righteous and moral to get what they want.

The drama they create leads to things like this very extreme list. We got Christians screaming at people with AIDS that they're going to hell. We got the right wing spouting political nonsense presented with the idea that their concepts are Christian.


I guess I'm just saying you can't piss everyone off and not expect any repercussion.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
reply to post by yesIAM

 

Did I judge? All I said is that no one is perfect and all have sinned. However now I will judge. You are indeed guilty of the WORST SIN OF ALL. That to think that you are equal to God. You are not. That is how this whole mess began in the first place. Man thought that he was equal to God and could go his own way. Also Jesus never taught to go your own way. He was always seeking the Will of the Father.

That's pretty unchristian buddy. I think you need to be corrected right now! I don't care what anyone said or did! You have no right to judge anybody. No one! Only one can judge and you aren't it.

Even if he is guilty of "The Worst Sin of All" you have no right to judge.

Truly an excellent post I havent had the time to go through the replies yet, but this could get interesting! I am finding it difficult to disagree with any of those 10 points made, and yes some of the statements may come across as a bit harsh, but that may just get the unthinking majorities attention that way...

reply to post by impaired


Valid points and wonderful info.

Ultimately what it comes down to is this:

The heavily ingrained and indoctrinated members of any organized religion whether it be catholic, muslim or christian beliefs are so heavily indoctrinated for a number of differing reasons related to, but not limited to personal issues, fear, tradition and upbringing or systematically tweaked and mutilated hope among many other legitimate and widely unrecognized reasons.

Due to these reasons of indoctrination when you question their beliefs most become offended at the questioning alone, even when it is sincere or logical analytical questioning for reasons of understanding.

Why? Because it threatens their paradigm and since that paradigm has been built up on some kind of false premise most do not have the proper backing in support of their founded beliefs, therefore usually a barrier is established for the individual or blind denial kicks in. Most have the same response or way to reply and retaliate against what they perceive to be a threat. But the fact alone that they are so touchy and offended on the issue gives us (those more logical) simple and highly credible methods of viewing through the lie.

There is power in numbers and religion is sometimes very complicated but can be used for good or bad. However, after a certain point of progression in religion, taking into consideration you really are there for the right reason to lose old false paradigms and actually overcome "yourself", you will find that you don't need religion any more or that you have evolved past its complexities and seemingly endless inconsistencies. I too don't believe in any kind of organized religion as I can see it's epidemic like effects on the lesser minded on our planet. It can be a useful tool for some incapable of personal growth due to the above mentioned issues but if people were more open with themselves and truly honest with their own beliefs, traditions, perspectives and paradigms, religion would not exist, anywhere, ever IMHO.

If religion didn't get involved in details and add information to differ from other religions it would be much more appropriate and useful. But once you veer from basic instinctual issues you corrupt and make unnecessary laws, ideas, beliefs, principles and such and its the details that hold people in religion and binds their reasoning powers to those details to keep them eternally indoctrinated.

Just because religion pointed out basic truths that everyone agrees on doesn't mean everything else that religion teaches is true. This is another "capture and convert" method implemented by those who understand its effectiveness.

Essentially what people think they get out of religion comes from within their own self. The tools used in that religion just run parallel to their own personal issues and such and allow them to delve within and surface things unrecognized and un-accounted for. Therefore giving credit to a religious deity instead of their self, allowing them to remain neutral and not as inflated and arrogant. If balance were exercised and humility kept, those still in religion, would evolve out of it.

I could go on forever so when the barrier goes up when questioning a set religious persons beliefs, remember that the guilty take the truth to be hard.

Good stuff and a S&F from me.

EDIT: Friggin typos
[edit on 31-3-2010 by Crossfate]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by Crossfate]

reply to post by Blaine91555


Yeah and once upon a time the whole world thought it was flat, the center of the universe, that people with illness were demon infested and killed, that monsters live in the ocean and you know what... WE EVOLVED and LEARNED and GREW and became better then what came before us...

EVOLVE people damn...

As in the mythology The Titans (elemental traditions Earth Air Fire Water etc) were killed off by Zeus, then Zeus and the Gods were replaced by Christ, now its time to make the same move ahead. Step out of the old dogmas.

Evolve and let the chips fall where they may, it can't get any worse now can it? Due to these invisible god's we are at war and that may lead to our destruction and the destruction or ruin of THE ONLY PLACE WE HAVE TO LIVE!!!!!!!!!

There are certainly "Christians" to whom these 10 points will apply, but to lump us all together is ludicrous. Some of us follow Yeshua (Jesus) more closely than others. Yeshua gave us our example for us to imitate through his life of selflessness and devotion to the glory of the Father and doing for others. Not one of us is perfect and we all fall short of the ideal. As for old vs young Earth, here is a quote from Scripture that I think pertains to this issue.

2 PETER 3: 3-4, 8-9 “You must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say ‘Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation’ … But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow keeping His promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”

I believe God lives outside of time. Time is merely another facet of his creations.
I fully believe in science, and I think it is a study of God in its own right and that advanced sufficiently it will point back to him.
I believe in the big bang. I also believe in the big bounce theory.

Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

I really like the Holographic theory. We are all part of a much bigger and more profound picture than we can comprehend. There was a very interesting thread on faith and quantum physics here a while back. www.abovetopsecret.com... Any way, I credit you for starting a great conversation. S&F for sure! I definitely don't take offense, I appreciate the opportunity to defend the faith.

[edit on 31-3-2010 by cepheusdraco]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by cepheusdraco]

reply to post by impaired


One word guys - allegorical.

Genesis is allegorical.

The transcendent GOD is different to the being who controlled the Israelites in the Old Testament.

I think a lot of the problems stem from terrible/ deliberately misleading translations. I personally adhere to the idea that we were seeded/ engineered by an advanced race, who were subject to human characteristics like changing their mind / getting really angry. It seems to me that the original intent of the mysterious OT 'God' was good, but that he was inherently (humanly) faulted and therefore capable (especially given his race's superior tech and position in the universe) of causing incredible destruction when angered. Think about kicking over an anthill.

As a practising Christian, I can tell you that the conditioning is hard to break in order to comment on a post like this. But let's face it - there's no two ways about it... Many acts carried out in the OT would now be considered genocidal.

Jesus conversely was more into the idea of carefully balanced pacifism - though he wouldn't tell you to sit quietly while your wife was getting beaten/ raped etc by an invading horde of foreign troops. Tolerate evildoers, try to 'love' them, but don't let them walk all over you. I think he would say something like that if he was around today.

reply to post by DaMod


My apologies. I am sorry. But you see I have to poor belief that no man is equal to God as mentioned in the Bible. If you believe that you are equal to God then go out and create an universe. Again all I posted that imperfection and sin is an universal trait of mankind, and for a person to think that they do not sin, is indeed a very serious sin. No one is perfect and can be equal to God. Get over it.

In addition, why would anybody want the job of being God. Then every nigeling thing that goes wrong in the world is blamed on you. Hell I get enough blame heaped upon me for being just a mere man. (little humor here.)

[edit on 31-3-2010 by jagdflieger]

I find all of this to pretty hilarious, mostly because none of it is true. I'm a Christian, i'm among the group who reads their Bible regularly, attends church every sunday, believes whole-heartedly in what The Bible says, and can't wait to meet my Saviour Jesus Christ someday. Yet, as I read this list.....I don't qualify for a single one, and neither do any of the Christian friends I have, nor the entire congregation of the church I attend. I don't get offended when someone mentions multiple gods, yet it is my responsibility to preach the word of God through the message of Christ. I don't do any of the things you listed....maybe i'm not a true Christian? Or perhaps, atheistic beliefs have helped develop judgemental, hate filled non-Christian's. I think the rebuttle to this thread is the perfect retort, because it's obvious that the things you claim we do, and despise us for (hard headed preaching and refusing to see the other side of an argument) is the thing atheists are most famous for. Thanks for the thread, but it's honestly a made up example by an atheist, on what he believes a true Christian is.....he's wrong.