Ten Signs You Are An Unquestioning Christian

Originally posted by jagdflieger
reply to post by yesIAM

 

Did I judge? All I said is that no one is perfect and all have sinned. However now I will judge. You are indeed guilty of the WORST SIN OF ALL. That to think that you are equal to God. You are not. That is how this whole mess began in the first place. Man thought that he was equal to God and could go his own way. Also Jesus never taught to go your own way. He was always seeking the Will of the Father.

you once again judged.
Go find your flock, sheep. I am free to wander on my own. just as anyone is, its called free-will buddy. I know how to use it. maybe you should try it

reply to post by ashanu90

but the magic creation of human beings isnt silly? it sounds fairytale-esque to me

Perhaps to you, who doesn't believe in an omnipotent God.

why bother with the trinity there is either 3 gods or 1 not both. or none at all simple logic

See, you don't understand the concept of the Trinity of all. There is one God who has expressed himself in three distinct ways. It's not three gods who are one God.

then what were they? please elaborate

Angel/human hybrids.

maybe there are no bones because either the tomb is lost or he never existed

Well, virtually all historians agree that Jesus did exist, so we can throw that out the window. And when I said produce his body, I didn't mean today, rather, back then. All the Pharisees had to do to squish the Jesus movement was pull his body out of Joseph's tomb which was guarded by Romans, which they couldn't do.

"The Hebrew word for ‘day’ is ‘yom’ and this word can occasionally be used to mean an indefinite period of time, if the content warrants. In the overwhelming preponderance of its occurrences in the O.T., however, it means a literal day… Still further, the plural form of the word (Hebrew 'yamim') is used over 700 times in the O.T. and always, without exception, refers to literal ‘days.’"

Yeah, and? Is God not allowed to experience literal days from where he's at?

here are a lot of christians out there who will tell you that that is bunk

I don't think so. One of the main thrusts of Christian soteriology and eschatology is that, at the end of the age, no one is without excuse. If someone didn't trust Christ, it's ultimately their fault.

If a Christian doesn't understand that, they need to get into their Bible more.

maybe its not god saying no maybe its nothing at all and your ocasional yes is coincidence

Or maybe it is God answering prayers.

reply to post by MurderCityDevil


That was actually me who mentioned Mark Driscoll.

Do you not think that someone can believe that homosexuality (sexual activity with someone of the same sex) is wrong yet believe that having willing sexual intercourse with your wife is okay?

Please explain why that's wrong.

I'll play God's advocate for a moment and take a crack at these questions. I think its good mental exercise to maximally rationalize the most outrageous beliefs:

1. I vigorously deny the legitimacy of other gods because there is only one true God and that would be God as defined by the Christian Bible. Just as advocates for democracy would defend it as the only legitimate system of government despite the existence of countless other government types.

2. Stating we evolved from monkeys offends me because it is not the truth. I am offended when people say untrue things. Need I go on?

3. The trinity is an advanced topic that not all Christians have an opinion of. That said, true Christians would never laugh at a Polytheist. We only feel sorry for them and want to save them by teaching them about God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. It it is ONE god, in three different forms... not different Gods in different forms. Its like that movie where the guy makes copies of himself because he's got a lot of chores to do but only it really happened with God. They were all the same person but in different places and doing different things. The only difference is God's copies are perfect copies that don't get stupider with each additional copy.

4. Christians all flinch when learning about how God killed the first born sons of many Egyptians. However, God was serving out justice and what should be focused on instead is how generous and loving God was to give those babies the amount of life he did give.

5. True Christians don't laugh at Hindu beliefs. They feel sorry for Hindu's and want to invite them into heaven right along with everyone else too. Hindu beliefs about Gods are generally wrong. For someone like God a virgin birth is a piece of cake. God created the animals before he created the humans so he had lots of practice trying out different reproduction methods... and in point of fact one of them was the asexual method. All God had to do was apply methods learned from the asexual creatures to the Virgin Mary and wallah!

6. Christians don't need any loopholes looking for the age of Earth. God could have created the Earth and universe at a starting point of several billion years old. Also, he could have fast-forwarded time. The ingenuity of god is endless. How many of God does it take to screw in a light bulb? Only 1/3rd of God: God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit could all do it alone. And that proves God is at least three times as intuitive as any man.

7. Its a tough love. It sounds bad, but hell is actually just a form of separation from God. All this time God has been providing you with air conditioning, and since you don't believe in God he'll be removing your air conditioner. You'll adjust to the new climate or perhaps lose consciousness shortly... nobody knows except for God.

8. Christians who "speak in tongues" or "roll around on the floor laughing" are real Christians, BUT they are misinformed about how Christianity works. That is not part of Christianity. And as for rolling around on the floor laughing, that is fun. Have you tried it? Lets go out for a cup of coffee and try it. Starbucks? No, too uptight. Lets do Dunkin' Doughnuts. Just don't tell my parents that I experimented with religion and want to do it again.

9. All prayers are answered. However, some of them are answered with a "no". God isn't your lap dog you know... he is a busy man (technically a hermaphrodite) with things to do. Also, if you had just a small grain of faith you could move mountains with your prayers. Perhaps you need to increase your faith level by twelve notches and come back in a few days and let me know how that works for you. I think it will work.

10. Everyone knows in their heart that God exists. To find God, one only needs to find their heart. Atheists are not trying to find it hard enough. Just look deep deep inside you at your very innermost feelings and be honest with yoruself. I know God exists not because of the Bible but because he is in my right ventricle teaching heartworms inside how to swim around without getting stuck in the valves. Just kidding, the heart is metaphorical. Simply by taking a look around at the beauty and complexity of the universe one can get the feeling it is a grand plan with a specific design.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
reply to post by DaMod

 

My apologies. I am sorry. But you see I have to poor belief that no man is equal to God as mentioned in the Bible. If you believe that you are equal to God then go out and create an universe. Again all I posted that imperfection and sin is an universal trait of mankind, and for a person to think that they do not sin, is indeed a very serious sin. No one is perfect and can be equal to God. Get over it.

In addition, why would anybody want the job of being God. Then every nigeling thing that goes wrong in the world is blamed on you. Hell I get enough blame heaped upon me for being just a mere man. (little humor here.)

[edit on 31-3-2010 by jagdflieger]

If you believe God created everything, like I do, would that not make you part of God? Whats your theory here then? Look at the big picture, GOD IS EVERYTHING. INFINITY which is ever-growing. Me living my life and utilizing my free-will is a way that God or Infinity to expand. It takes ALL to work. No one said I was a creator. Not once, did I take that claim . I AM PART OF THE CREATOR as everyone and everything IS. That was the teaching you are missing in your trained book. You seem to be missing the ultimate message.
So another question you may ask yourself, when science clones a life, a creature here on earth. Does that make the scientist its creator God. Hmmm that is the way you make it sound with your belief. See my belief starts at the beginning. It is the ultimate One. The True balance

reply to post by yesIAM


Read the epistles of Paul. He wrote some pretty harsh things about those who would lead us into the spirit of error. I Still stand behind my statement. We are not gods and are not equal to God. Believe what you want to believe. But any statement that says that man is a god or equal to God is a ERROR and a lie. I am not as great as Paul was, but he was not afraid to say to a man. "You are wrong" and you are in sin.

reply to post by Kingdom of darkness

Supposedly jesus comes to israel to rule for 1000 years

Actually, the whole world.

...uh oh wait contradiction

They killed christ...would why they be his "Chosen" people...LOL and let's not forget the part the romans played it in.

Ever heard of the resurrection and second coming?

It was prophesied that the chosen people would reject their messiah.

reply to post by yesIAM


The Bible teaches that God, the Creator is separate for His creation and not part of His creation. If God is the creation, then God will eventually die as the creation will eventually die (maximum entropy). One day this universe will become dark and quite dead.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

I still stand behind my statement. They have not read the Bible with an intent to really understand what is being said. As for interpretation. There are many passages in the Bible which are not really subject to interpretation. That seems to be an way of saying "I do want to understand what is being said here". If you read the Bible with the intention of not understanding what is being said, then you will not understand. Also there a passages that may require a little research to truly understand. Ask you agnostic friends if they have really read the messianic prophecy passages of the Old Testament. I willing to bet you a free beer of a brand of your choice (if we ever meet), that you will get a blank stare.

I grew up in a Christian school for 8 years and taken to church every Sunday for many, many years. Thank you very much.

Originally posted by jagdflieger
reply to post by yesIAM

 

Read the epistles of Paul. He wrote some pretty harsh things about those who would lead us into the spirit of error. I Still stand behind my statement. We are not gods and are not equal to God. Believe what you want to believe. But any statement that says that man is a god or equal to God is a ERROR and a lie. I am not as great as Paul was, but he was not afraid to say to a man. "You are wrong" and you are in sin.

You are avoiding my question. If a scientist created a life here on this planet, does that make that scientist the Creator of that life? If so answer this! Then you tell me HOW the ultimate God is not everything?

I too was born again and "evolved past religion" I like how you put that. I've had similar responses from Christians when I tell them that I used to be, but not anymore. They say it isn't possible and the only explanation is that I wasn't really "born again" to begin with.

Ironically they are right. Just not in the way they want to think. No one is ever "born again". It has nothing to do with reality. It has to do with scaring the crap out of someone to get them to join "their side" It's a marketing ploy. That's why the hell, fire and brimstone is pressed so hard on the very young kids. The earlier, the better, as far as they are concerned. Which is a smart move because brainwashing is much easier the younger they are.

I have, for the better, given up my hostile feelings toward the church though. I used to be really pissed because I began to see the truth and realized I was lied to my entire life. By letting all that anger go I have been able to see religions for what they are. An attempt to solve the deepest questions about where we came from and where we are going.

The problem is that a lot of religions think they have the answer. A very detailed answer at that. They don't give God enough credit. They think they have him figured out, but every time they try to box him up he becomes more and more elusive. And they continue to stay in that same box. That's why a lot of religious fundamentalists believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

reply to post by Jobeycool

This idea applies to everyone of all beliefs or lack of a belief in God.

If you read my post, you will have noticed the emphasis on 'fundamentalist' which denotes, to me, the believer with fingers firmly stuck in his/her ears, who refuses to question their own beliefs because they know that if they did, they would find themselves standing on the edge of the abyss, completely naked, without a parachute.
Fundamentalism in its refusal to question points to, in my opinion, a need to feel safe and secure.
I can't speak for all atheists, but I've come to my lack of belief in god through questioning. It's not a security blanket.
I asked myself the question in reverse, how would I feel if the existence of god was proven? I'd feel fine.
If that god disapproved of my belief that all human beings are deserving of love and respect unless they harm another life for kicks, well that's too bad. That god would have to go back to the drawing board.

reply to post by royalred

They say it isn't possible and the only explanation is that I wasn't really "born again" to begin with.

Out of curiosity, is your church background from a move Arminian or Calvinist church?

OK I'm responding to the OP...

I have a counter question. Do you have any beliefs at all? Because even if you have one single little belief in ANYthing, there is a contracting viewpoint out there. I could tailor this attack at Body building for example:

"Hey dude, how can you believe the muscles react better to lifting your style while denying that this style doesnt stimulate the muscles?"

Probably a poor example, But still. You must have something you believe in or you are a robot. And I guarantee that somewhere there is a similar statement: "how can you believe in that, but deny this." for your belief.

So a person must eventually make a stand somewhere. Part of having a strong character is defining your values and beliefs and holding to them. I don't say you should be close minded to hear a different perspective, but if you can be blown about by every passing belief you haven't invested the thought or time into researching what and why you believe.

As for the question: If your beliefs could be proven false beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you still believe? My answer is: Why would someone hold close a belief that they think there a chance it could be proven false someday? Thats like saying; "Today I believe in God, But I realize at any moment some scientist will convince me he isn't real." "I believe that my belief may be false?" I just find the question illogical.

There are TONS of #ty Christians out there...MEGATONS. But there are also a few of us decent people out here too. I understand your frustration from the scammers and the snooty church goers. When I hear those people, like a few posts back, about getting rid of or even killing all the Christians; I realize that in a few years it will be the majority view of our nation. Don't be sucked in by the haters. Be sure youre not being manipulated no matter what side you choose to align your beliefs with.

1. No, its more of a sadness in that I believe they are basically doing idolatry because though there may be plenty of "gods"(angels/demons) there is only one God, yes

2. Somewhat, yes, but don't you realize evolution says we evolved from a rock? The only string it has tied to that puppy is over "billions and billions of years", where as there actually IS a side of evidence that does prove creation - but unfortunately towards each side (evolution vs creation) has some bias in it whether its wanted to be accounted for or not. Ever heard of radio polonium halos? Why is the oldest desert or coral reef only about 4300 years old? If coal takes "millions and millions of years" to form, why have they found solid bronze objects in the middle of a coal mine in the midst of coal? (the great flood which in my estimate timeline happened around 4400 years ago)

3. I don't laugh, I listen to their side of the arguement and I point mine. I have to admit I don't completely understand the Trinity, but in gist of what I figure is they are each different - but still one in the same. They all have the same knowledge, are the same deity, but the aspects of how they work is on different levels that complement eachother. Say in terms of man vs. woman. We all have the same traits, just per each one different said traits are heightened to complement the other.

4. No I am filled with sadness. Yes those were unfortunate times but have you ever actually looked into the information at hand there? Do you know why those towns were destroyed such as Sodom and Gomorrah? They were insanely wicked! Abraham negotiated with God, basically saying "If I find 10 good men, this town will be saved?" God agreed. Abraham went out to find 10 good men and couldn't even do it. Rather when God sent angels to protect them, the townspeople just talked smack and tried getting them to let the people have sex or "gain carnal knowledge" of the angels. I may have a narrow viewpoint, but I trust God with all my heart and I know ultimately he wants the best for people so if he destroyed a good town, based on the other bits of evidence I've seen - I can trust he probably had a darn good reason.

5. I don't necessarily laugh at this either, but just as behind some folk tales there lies a bit of truth. In the bible in mentions how angels came down and had sex with women to make Giants (such as Goliath? you heard of him?) as well as tought them astronomy and other things, which by the way they turned the world so wicked that it had to be destroyed with a flood in which only Noah's (pure) blood line was saved (because there had to be a pure blood line from Adam for Jesus to be born). So perhaps the greek/hindu gods are actually bad angels sent to corrupt man and take him away from his path with God, the Almighty?

6. Scientifically established? Sorry bub, but it is still a THEORY. Yes they have some proof within the guidelines of their THEORY, but hey, so does Creationism/Christianity! Have you ever looked for the evidence PROVING it rather than DISPROVING it? Probably not because all you really know is what you heard up til age 10 when you decided to become defiant and independant rather than trying to have a relationship with God.

7. Yes and no. I'm not completely sure what will happen to all of the other religions. I believe if the person is unable to comprehend (mentally challenged, child, etc.) then they will goto Heaven because they lacked the capacity to grasp the magnitude, and those who haven't heard His name may be judged on what they know pertaining to God. Just saying every religion has Nth # of laws that you must obey to get into Heaven/Paradise and if you do GOOD ENOUGH, then you'll be lucky enough to go. Christianity isn't about that though I believe in institutions it had been used as a source of power, but why does that automatically

(continuing...)

(continued)

7. thats what God wanted? God wants a relationship with us, thats why Christ comes in because he lived the law NONE of us could so that way we didn't have to focus on our mess-ups in the law but rather learned in a relationship through Him! He will refine us like gold and silver!

8. False. There's two sides of "proof/evidence" you can look up, and guess what theres a decent amount of evidence backing up creation claims too ya know, so science hasn't failed me in that aspect. In terms of speaking in tongues, yes I believe it is possible, but I also believe that many people who claim to do as such or claim to have gifts of the Holy Spirit are just boasting false claims to make them feel better. If you are truly with God, miracles and gifts will just follow, you don't push them out to try impressing anyone.

9. I do believe prayers work, but at the same time can be ineffective in a sort other than just giving us hope, but at the same time God I believe does listen and he can incorporate our will into His will. God gives us what we need, rather than what we want, because sometimes if we get what we want, it may be the opposite of what we need. Say in poker the other night, I had two 6's, and in the pile there was a 4, 5, 7, 8 - so I was somewhat lightheartedly praying "God c'mon now gimme a six so i can win this hand with a triple!". Well, he gave me what I wanted being a 6, but it wasn't what I needed to win the hand, because come to find out someone else had a 5 and 7 that got a royal flush. Comprende?

10. I disagree with that. I do believe that I don't know anything and that I am a fool, but I am in constant progression of learning through the lessons that He teaches me through my own and His will, and I yearn for wisdom. I actually believe that believers have an edge over the average athiest though. Because most TRUE believers have started out as athiests, but no athiest has truly started out as a believer because otherwise you would've had an honest relationship with God in which he would have proven himself to you and which you would never have been able to deny or turn from him in the first place. We can understand your point of view, but you have trouble understanding ours. The most important thing of the bible is it is a picture of Jesus and we are set free! God wants us to love Him with all our might in our mind/body/soul/spirit and second next to that love our neighbors as we love ourselves, and do so in a relationship with Him through Christ because Christ made it completely possible by taking all the punishment that we all deserve so we don't have to but rather can focus on a relationship with Him rather than seeing constantly how we mess up with the law.

/rant

1: You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of YOUR god.
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Maybe because the Bible warns about false Gods and it makes a point of it, the other religions are Babylonian mystery religions that came from the same place and the Bible warns about us about these things.

2: You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from lesser life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
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I don't think Christians feel dehumanised it actually helps people believe that God created us from the dust of the Earth it has been used to teach others that science is getting nearer to the truth.

3: You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem with believing in a Trinity god.
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God is like water, ice and gas all from the same molecule 3 is God's number and is part of creation construction in nature. You have a mind body and soul, alive, dead resurrected. God is one but not one dimensional.

4: Your face turns purple when you hear of the atrocities attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehova slaughtered all of the babies of Egypt in 'Exodus' and ordered the elimination of ENTIRE ETHNIC GROUPS in 'Joshua' - including women, children, and animals.
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A lot of killings had to do with keeping the Jewish bloodline alive, it was starting to become contaminated and making the Messiah bloodline half man half angelic or satanic had to be dealt with including when the jews were being wiped out.

Deuteronomy 2:21
They were a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites. The LORD destroyed them from before the Ammonites, who drove them out and settled in their place.

1 Samuel 17:4
A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp. He was over nine feet tall.

5: You laugh at Hindu beliefs that defy humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem in believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
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Again the Bible knows about the counterfeit religions as they did thousands of years ago too. Christ was foretold and we know about fallen Gods agenda against Jesus.

6: You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by pre-historic tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that the Earth is a couple of generations old.
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If the information is meant to come from God then with faith you have to test science which has not reached complete conclusions with how we got here it is not absolute to everything like God is.

7: You believe that the entire population of this planet, with the exception of those who share your beliefs - though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend eternity in an infinite hell of suffering. Yet you consider your religion the most tolerant and loving.
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Hell is a place of torment not the lake of fire which kills death itself, it depends how you read it, but there is lake of fire which is not hell, there could be two stages to redeem one self, Catholics call it purgatory.
God does not want us in hell that is why he is here to save us; he gave his son for us who overcame death.

8: While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some person rolling around on the floor 'speaking in tongues' may be all the evidence you need.
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I doubt it, maybe if you are American but not in Europe, God has otherways of doing things.

9: You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be the evidence that prayer works, and you think that the remaining 99.99 % failure was simply the will of God.
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God does what he feels right, if you get to know him rather than just pray sometimes things are answered. I bet the figures are larger than that anyway, God blesses nations not just individuals and I bet that 90% of Christian countries are better off and wealthy and free compared to non Christian countries who live in far more misery. Over 50% of what I hear Christian say about knowing God has helped them compared to when they did not pray.

10: You actually know a lot less than many Atheists and Agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history, but still call yourself a "Christian".
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That is a generalisation, but Christ does not need you to believe all that to be saved just to believe is enough, people were being healed through him just by touching him they had no hard evidence just belief, Jesus spoke about that may times. You don't need to be a history teacher to believe, God does not need that from you to save you first.

Good points but not even challenging, people get off with these kinds of threads, maybe the last generation is hear for the final show down.



[edit on 31-3-2010 by The time lord]

reply to post by Bilw85

As for the question: If your beliefs could be proven false beyond a shadow of a doubt, would you still believe? My answer is: Why would someone hold close a belief that they think there a chance it could be proven false someday? Thats like saying; "Today I believe in God, But I realize at any moment some scientist will convince me he isn't real." "I believe that my belief may be false?" I just find the question illogical.

If it was proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that all your religious beliefs are false, to the point that even you had to accept it, how would you handle it?

Please compare the bold part in your rewording of my question and in my original question.

reply to post by Blaine91555


this isnt really proof but i think its a step in the right direction
disclaimer its a bit rude but such thoughts are difficult to express

www.youtube.com...
the stupid code wont embed so heres a link instead

[edit on 31-3-2010 by ashanu90]

reply to post by yesIAM


First man has not created life as of yet, and if man every does create life, then that still will not make him God. You stated that as a child you were taken to church every Sunday. Then surely you must have become acquainted with the epistles of Paul and the Book of Daniel. And also you would have learned that the fall of man from grace was when Adam and Eve thought that they could become equal to God. Therefore you should already know that thinking that you are equal to God is a very serious sin as far as a Christian is concerned (a lot of other belief systems also hold that tenet.) By the way check out Daniel's 70 Weeks and refute it.