Strange Rock Carving

Really quick supposition...could someone have carved this out, long ago, to use while doing their laundry? Use the "tree" to rub the clothes, rinse in the rectangle area.

Just a thought...

Originally posted by Blue Shift
With the cut-outs and all, it seems to me that something was supposed to fit on or in the grooves, like a barrel or something. A moonshine still, maybe? Or something used to sift for gold? It's hard to tell exactly, but from the look of the surrounding creek bed, somebody was working there on something. Just a guess.

Moonshine stills are usually flat on the bottom, and set upon rocks or bricks to either side, forming a big enough space under them to kindle a fire to heat the mash with, which boils the alcohol off into a coil where it condenses back into liquid, leaving the water and solids in the still.

Don't ask how I know that. I read it somewhere.

The point is, there's not enough space in the carving to hold the fire, and no reason for the channels representing the "tree limbs".

Originally posted by FibroKat
Really quick supposition...could someone have carved this out, long ago, to use while doing their laundry? Use the "tree" to rub the clothes, rinse in the rectangle area.

Just a thought...

Very good idea I like that.

Originally posted by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU
Thanks lots OP(!), still in the belief it's a Shield form for Cold Forging Copper -especially as the natural V-shape of the ravine it's in would help with controlling the compression stone, and the creek water being witheld and then released to break it loose afterward also... I'd be interested in what may be found in that nearby recess!

We looked back in there, and most of it has a very low ceiling (which is splitting out and getting ready to drop a big flat rock on the ground), mostly dry dirt and a few fallen rocks, and a vein of water running down the back wall, dissipating in the dirt at it's base. For about the last 8 or 10 feet of it, the roof is only around 10-12 inches above the floor. The 'habitable' portion is only the first 5 to 8 feet in, Enough to get out of the rain, and that's about it. No 'artifacts' ( neither modern nor ancient) were anywhere on the surface. Not so much as a candy wrapper.

edit to add: it's not beyond the pale that it could have been used to cold-forge or hammer emboss sheet copper or the like. it probably would have left a pretty crude finished product, though.

[edit on 2010/3/31 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by FibroKat
Really quick supposition...could someone have carved this out, long ago, to use while doing their laundry? Use the "tree" to rub the clothes, rinse in the rectangle area.

Just a thought...

The tree COULD have been used as a scrub, but the rectangles are far to small for a rinse (around 2" by 3"). It would have been far cheaper, energy expenditure-wise, however, to just go down to the general store (there was one at one time about 200 meters from this spot) and spend a quarter on a corrugated wash board.

A lot of the old folks just beat their wet wash on the rocks, and didn't scrub it at all.

Greetings. I have been a reader of ATS for a while now, never signing up though. Today I decided I had to when I saw this topic and specifically for this topic.

I have long been a fan of anything strange and unknown running from ghosts to UFO's. So it was much to my delight when my grandmother on my step dads side showed me an old carved rock out in the woods on their land.

I live in WV too and have on and off for most my life. While in High School we moved onto my grandmothers land which was very beautiful and very interesting a place I had no shortage of strange encounters. At one point my grandmother sketched out a map to show me the location of this rock she wanted me to see. I made a day of it and eagerly went searching. I found the rock late in the evening. It was perched about 15 feet below the drop of a steep hill. I would say the hill dropped at 60 degrees. I cannot be sure how far of a drop it was to the creak below though.
The rock was about 4 feet across if you stood below it facing it, little over a foot from the ground up, and about 4 feet back until it disappeared under the dirt of the hill.

Now here are the interesting parts. Set north, south, east, and west, were 4 holes that had been bored into the rock about an inch deep. On its surface was a network of branching lines that almost resembled a map. Just below that map was a spiral about 4 inches in diameter, all carved about a quarter of an inch deep. On the front of the rock close to ground level is what I find interesting in context with your rock: It bore your symbol. Only it was in miniature, about as big as the spiral on the flat of the rock above it.

I also find it interesting that someone mentioned graves because further up the hill were two slightly depressed areas of ground with rocks piled on top, cairn style. I was told there were graves. As far as I could tell though, there were no markers on the rock leading to these graves and they were only about the 15 feet to the top of the hill apart.

As if having the same symbol of yours wasn't remarkable enough, the rock didn't meet the ground in the very front, instead there was an opening, both rocky and dirt walled into the hillside. A man of average size and below could fit, though it would be a tight squeeze. I imagine that in the past it was a lot bigger and that rain and time has closed up some of the opening. Some of the small rocks around the opening looked as if they had been placed specifically to support it and some bore crude tool markings. It tunneled into the hill at a slight downward angle and went down deeper than I could shine a flashlight. Do to the obvious instability and risk to health, I never went in.

Also, on the other sides of the rock were engraved other symbols, all pretty small. With some research I was able to discover that they bare a resemblance to Nordic symbols and even some being exact runes. It is my belief that these were made by, possibly, lost or abandoned Vikings that went this far inland after discovering America.

Also on the land are the ruins of a low stone wall, it never occurred to me to take too close of a look at it though as I wasn't sure if it was really our land or on our neighbors.

At my grandmothers wishes, I never invited an archeologist or specialist to investigate. She did not want the "spirits of the land" disturbed.

I can tell you, however, that it was in southern WV in Monroe county near a small town called Lindside.

I have no pictures of the rock, though my Mom has some. If I can get permission to go back onto the land I will take some and post them.

reply to post by Visual_Death


That would be great if you could get some pics posted for comparison . I feel there is something to this . Very intriguing, to say the least. Looking forward to those pics !

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by 23refugee
reply to post by nenothtu

 

- nenothtu, charter member and founder of the International Bondo Art Foundation

I'm in. Where do I put my mark?
I'd be proud to place something alongside those sculpted tire planters that used to grace Mamas' yard.

reply to post by okbmd


I certainly will, though I know not how long it will take. We had a falling out with my grandmother that was just recently smoothed over. I need to call her and then make sure I have the gas to get there.

But I am just as intrigued now. I had always thought this an isolated rock, interesting, but nothing bigger than its self. To know that that symbol appears elsewhere, though, gets me excited.

when I do, should I clean it off or leave it natural? Moss tends to grow over it quite a lot and obscure some markings, especially the "map" portion. Maybe I'll just take pictures pre cleaned and post cleaned.

Its lucky the other rock has been cleaned by running water, the only reason I know of this one is that my grandmothers side of the family has known about for at least 3 generations, likely more.

Originally posted by nenothtu
I have to admit, I'm perplexed.

A few days ago, a gentleman was walking in the woods, in an undisclosed location in WV, when he happened upon a curiously carved rock. This particular gent has been all over this ground, for years, and had never noticed this rock carving before.

He came back and reported the find, and so far no one else has ever noticed it before either. Keep in mind these gents have been all over this territory hunting and such, and are keen observers due to that pursuit. No much gets by them, but no one has noticed this rock before.

I went out this morning in the company of one of them to see this rock for myself, as I was not a little dubious.

This is a photo I took of it a little after noon today:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1fabd6a7039e.jpg[/atsimg]

The rock itself is embedded in the bed of a small mountain stream, around 200 meters or so away from the nearest road, up a small hollow. The stream I think is mostly dry, but has had some water running in it lately due to heavy rains. The area it's in is little frequented, and mostly uninhabited.

The circle is 22 inches wide at the inside edge of the circle, and 21 1/2 inches tall at the inside edge of the circle. The depth that the circle is cut to is between 5/8 and 3/4 of an inch. The orientation of the stem of the central "tree" is east by north-east.

I did a cursory search of Google images (just the first 20 pages) and found similar,but not identical, figures. They were the Norse "World tree" (Yggdrasil), the Celtic "Tree of Life", and a Buddhist figure somewhat resembling the carving. None of these explains how THIS carving would be found in the middle of nowhere in West Virginia, with this obvious patina of age.

The "branches" of the central "tree" vaguely resemble the layout of the surrounding hollows. There has been some lively discussion today of whether or not this could be some sort of "map" of the surrounding one or two square miles. Some say it most likely IS, others are equally certain that it ISN'T. So far, no theory has been advanced as to why anyone would take the time to rock-cut a map of such a small area.

An idea has been advanced that it is some sort of Indian carving, but no purpose for it has been suggested.

Why the "tree"? Why the circle? Why in the middle of nowhere, off the beaten path, in an uninhabited area? Why in the middle of a stream bed? Who would take the time to carve it, and for what purpose?

Any ideas? Explanations? suggestions for further research? I have to admit my perplexity in the matter once again.

My husband and I saw Nordic writing in heavner oklahoma. I know this is irrelevant to your carving but this does not suprise me at all.

Curious.

It kind of resembles a basketball. And I find it disconcerting that there seems to be 4 branches. Also, if you split the tree in half and look at just the left side you can almost pick out a 'W' and if you look at the right side you obviously see a 'V'.

Hmmm. W + V + Four + Basketball?

Could it be that this carving has appeared recently as the foretelling prophet that West Virginia is going to make the Final Four and win a National Title?

What are these "hunters" hunting when they trek this area? Huggie Bears?

Originally posted by serbsta
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

Well I think he did provide some basis measurements...

It would be great knowing where exactly this was taken OP. But from a layman's observation it does look like a tree within a circle, usually used as representation of the Tree of Life/Tree of Knowledge. It is meant to symbolize limitless knowledge through the circle, sometimes even God.

More details would be good, thanks for sharing.

He did provide sizes.

But adding an object of known size, would add to the validity of the
claim. It could be 1" and he says it's 21". Even a unused cigarette
would do.

Originally posted by tyranny22
Curious.

It kind of resembles a basketball. And I find it disconcerting that there seems to be 4 branches. Also, if you split the tree in half and look at just the left side you can almost pick out a 'W' and if you look at the right side you obviously see a 'V'.

Hmmm. W + V + Four + Basketball?

Could it be that this carving has appeared recently as the foretelling prophet that West Virginia is going to make the Final Four and win a National Title?

What are these "hunters" hunting when they trek this area? Huggie Bears?

What is this 'basketball' you speak of?

Seriously, there aren't a lot of sports fans around here, beyond what the local high schools do.

If one of our bears hugs you, I guarantee it to leave a mark. The hunters hunt for all sorts of things, depending on season. Right now, it's wild greens, some herbs (not many up yet) and such. In a couple of weeks, it will be turkeys, fall brings deer, bear, rabbit, and squirrel.

You know, 'hunting'.

Originally posted by skeptic_al

He did provide sizes.

But adding an object of known size, would add to the validity of the
claim. It could be 1" and he says it's 21". Even a unused cigarette
would do.

here's a picture of the carving with a quarter laid on it for scale:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/09660176032b.jpg[/atsimg]

Does that help?

The groove around the carving appears to me to be a bezel ring holder..allowing what ever type of ring to spin around and then lock at the point where the ring passes over the recessed rectanglar groove. There is a correlation between the rectanglar recess in the groove and the circular recess at the near opposite side of the circle. Almost as if you had the matching bezel to fit the groove and you turned the bezel until it locked into place there would be a directional indicator on the bezel ring that coincides with the circlar recess. This would almost allow you to trianglelate or make a 3 point directional refference. Pretty much like a very large compass with the bezel ring missing. If the stone has a magnetic quality ..then the bezel with a floating needle would act like a compass locking in a third refference point. I for one would take my JB Weld fund money and construct a wooden bezel (notched on the contact side to fit a lock bar so it will lock in to the rectanglar recess ) with a water bubble center and an iron needle and see what happens. The locking key that fits in the bezel should be triangular shaped so it will drop down when turn counter-clock wise and raise back up into the bezel notch when you turn it clockwise. If you then hear a ticking noise..I'ed run till I got to the Virgina border! hehe

reply to post by nenothtu


Saw something on the history channel. Of a group of scientific types that found a bunch of viking stuff, way off the beaten path. Not just off new foundland, not just along the eastern seaboard coast, but all the way into the ohio valley region, and further. Seems like the viking folk did beat columbus by a thosand years. And they left there standing stones and marked stones around. Lets just say its one of there stones. You ask how it could show up and no ones noticed it before? Simple. The ground moves. What was on top of the land thosands of years ago could have been buried in rock slides, forrsts growing over them, etc. Has there been any ground quakes or rock slides in your area of late? Something could have been uncovered after a very long time.

Or you might have run across a ceremonial meeting place, best to be careful about stuff like that and not make the local gnomes grumpy. Yeah I know that sounds funny, but you never know.

reply to post by nenothtu


Funny you should mention hunting for 'wild greens'. For that is exactly what I have been focussing on for the last few hours., plants...not trees. And I am coming across a lot of material saying that this 'hunting for wild greens' is a way of life in your neck of the woods. I found a connection with this and something you and I discussed earlier, but apparently I didn't mark it because now I am having trouble locating it again.

Do wild leeks grow around there ? I'm seriously starting to believe it represents a plant instead of a tree .

reply to post by okbmd


I hope nenathtu forgives my answering, but we refer to wild leeks as ramps.

Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Funny you should mention hunting for 'wild greens'. For that is exactly what I have been focussing on for the last few hours., plants...not trees. And I am coming across a lot of material saying that this 'hunting for wild greens' is a way of life in your neck of the woods.

I found a connection with this and something you and I discussed earlier, but apparently I didn't mark it because now I am having trouble locating it again.

Do wild leeks grow around there ? I'm seriously starting to believe it represents a plant instead of a tree .

I'm not sure about wild leeks, but ramps grow here. That's what the hunt was about that turned this stone up.

Edit: I read down one more post after this one that I answered, and discovered that Wild leeks DO grow here, I always just called them ramps. Leeks sounded to me like something those fancy french guys in the big hats used to cook with.

Please forgive my ignorance, I don't know if I've ever seen a tame leek, Ive only heard the name.

My dear old dad always told me that when you quit learning, it means you're dead.

[edit on 2010/3/31 by nenothtu]

[edit on 2010/3/31 by nenothtu]