Strange Rock Carving

As promised, here is the Google Earth view of the surrounding area, with the approximate location of the rock marked with a red X:

[deleted for security reasons]

I'll try and refine the location tomorrow when I get there.


Edit:
Sorry 'bout that, but given this particular image, it's already been found once. Can't have strangers stomping around there, for their own safety.

The topo map I posted earlier will have to suffice to show the surroundings.

[edit on 2010/3/31 by nenothtu]

[edit on 2010/3/31 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU
Is there an area (underneath this 'boulder') for fire to heat it?
Are there any (3 or 4) posthole location places around it?
look for another large flat rock not far away (and maybe other incised rocks/boulders)

-this was for 'cold forging' a Copper Shield.
There should be a Swordmaking place too!

it would be difficult to build a fire under the rock, assuming there is a void there to build one in, due to the water running around it, putting the fire out. That might not be such a problem if the stream goes dry in the summer, though.

Postholes around it would require an archaeological dig to discover, due to the age they would require (no one has used shields here for years) and silting and erosion filling them in.

I'll be looking around the immediate area with an eye out for other oddities tomorrow.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Maybe this is the work of potheads.

This is the spot they ... ... carved a peace sign into the rock.

I doubt it. Only because it's got what looks to be multiple branches (three) staggered up the trunk that seem to all have the same "shape" or "technique" unless it was the same potheads who made the carving with the same carving tool each time (which is plausible). Plus would pot-users have the coherence to be able to develop something like this? How long do you think it would take to carve this?

Actually...Now that I think about it...It's embossed. Not engraved...How much longer would it take to emboss it? I understand engraving is one thing but yeah, I would think it would take a good bit longer.

reply to post by nenothtu


It might be in your interest to not show photographs, but produce a drawing of the image...

Show said image to the "witches" you are casually familier with. Ask them if this means anything (assuming you have good/trusting relationships). You never know, they might know or be behind the carving. If they know or were involved -- you might never get any information (they are most likely very secretive and won't want to admit anything)

At this point -- I strongly believe this to be a group sigil. It bears striking resemblance to archaic runes/glyphs -- but also smacks of intentional magic.

As I said -- confluences of bodies of water hold great power to those interested in nature.

The fact that it was carved (and by the looks) from metal tools indicates that it was made not by Native Americans. The design clearly is not Native American.

Debate has been raised about the age and connections with past celtic/welsh explorers -- but none of the information can be proven with tangible, verifiable artifacts/sources.

The fact that this stone could be covered for decades with debris, then washed clean via storm flooding could explain the "new-ness" look to the patina.

However, I tend to lean on the assumption that the most plausible explanation is the most valid... : This is a ritual magic site for not only one person, but a *group*.

Why a group?

1. Why find a location such as this? As you have said within 600 meters two streams come together. This is a known "source of power" in the natural world.

2. Hewing a rock like that with simple metal tools (it looks to rudimentary to have been done by machines) takes a great deal of effort/time

3. For a single person to invest such time seems illogical -- a group of at least 3 or more people must consider that site of some significance, at least to invest the time of not only one person to complete the carving.

Now -- having said that, the people that created that carving might be elderly or already dead. This carving certainly could be 100 years old or less.

If you do know a knowledgeable "Witch" -- that is willing...you might actually want to take him/her to that site. Perhaps with their heightened senses of the occult they may offer interesting input...(or you might just blow their cover on their spot!) Tread carefully!

Thank you for answering my questions -- if only to deepen the plot!

reply to post by nenothtu


Not sure if anyone suggested this yet, but could it have anything to do with the Melugeons? Particularly those of the shipwrecked Portugese theory.

Originally posted by 23refugee
reply to post by nenothtu

 

Not sure if anyone suggested this yet, but could it have anything to do with the Melugeons? Particularly those of the shipwrecked Portugese theory.

Not likely. I'm familiar with the Melungeons, they are located a good ways south of here, in Upper East Tennessee, and extreme Southwest Virginia (as disinguished from "West Virginia"). There is also a similar Triracial Isolate group northeast of here, the "Guineas" of West Virginia. Some of the people here are reported to have Guinea ancestry, but nothing has ever been proven or firmed up in that regard. In any event, there aren't any homogenous Triracial Isolate groups similar to the Melungeons in this vicinity.

Interestingly, as a side note, the Melungeons were already present, and speaking Portuguese (not Arabic, as has been reported elsewhere) when the first white settlers trod into Southwest Virginia and Upper East Tennessee in the mid-1700's. Possibly in connection with that, a huge group of African slaves revolted and escaped from a Spanish colony planted in South Carolina in the 1500's, somewhat before the Lost colony of Roanoke was ever put in place to begin with. I've often wondered if those two events factored into the formation of the Melungeon population, together with the dissappearance and reported devastation of a tribe near Saltville, Va, by the Spanish soldiers quartered at Fort San Juan, in the far interior of North Carolina, around 1567.

Likely left by moonshiners.

They had to have something to do while tending the fires under there stills.

One thing i would do is take a metal detector and do a search around the area to see what artifacts i could find. also while doing a metal detector search you my find more carved rocks in the area.

By identifying artifacts and there age you might be able to find what happened in that area and some of the history.

This my give you clues as to who my have carved the rock.
Also doing a records search at the county seat and local library may give you more clues.

reply to post by nenothtu
I apologize for not paying closer attention to the details you provided. I became enamored by the rock and completely overlooked obvious water erosion of the carving itself. ( Duh ) My analysis of the carvings patina and hypothesis of the lonesome hunter seem now ( upon thorough examination of your posts in their entirety ) to be ridiculous.

It is this particular image I was referencing, to describe my view of the patina. I compared the raised surface area to the surrounding rock layers. Your first assumption, that recent flooding washed away debris permitting visibility of the piece, is most likely the cause of its recent discovery. Water erosion of the carvings upper rim suggests a flood pattern. The surface area is oxidized and has accumulated contiguous elements validating that the carving is certainly aged. The distribution of these contiguous elements is consistent with the water erosion pattern depicted

I see you’ve compared the patina of the surface area to similar surrounding rocks which would’ve been my suggestion as I gather you are attempting to date the carving and establish its creator’s identity or intention. May I request a wider view of the rock itself? A picture, detailing the position of the rock in its environment, will provide a broader perspective allowing us to walk in your shoes and perhaps with a little imagination theirs.

In the mean time, I intend to research the art and customs of the Shawnee people. I think you may be onto something, correlating the tree branches to a map of the holler ( I so rarely have an opportunity to share my Appalachian twang ) If the carving is a map, my first thought is not that this map was to be used as a locator but rather as a stamp declaring territory. Perhaps I overlooked an answer to this question but are the markings on the left and right of the carving raised, dropped or flat?




[edit on 31-3-2010 by MsAmen]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by MsAmen]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by MsAmen]

[edit on 31-3-2010 by MsAmen]

The traditional Chinese ideograph (actual drawing by brush) for the I Ching no. 47 bears somewhat of resemblance. This might be a modern-day hybrid of celtic, Chinese, and occult.

I would show supporting photos, but alas I cannot find the pictures of my I Ching codex.

I am using the book: "The Complete I Ching" by Author Alfred Huang -- widely regarded.

While not quite identical, I see hints of I Ching, Ouroborus-new-age thinking, and ancient celtic design. This is clearly IMO not ancient -- but within the past 100 years. The amalgamation of so many faiths/ideas while not being clearly from simply one -- lead my logic to this concision.

Clearly, this stone (based on its size and use of metal carving tools) was created by people (notice I said people) with great intent.

This is simply a modern day worship site for people, who most likely wish to remain underground visit.

Interesting find!

reply to post by nenothtu


Very interesting find! the first thoughts were its likeness to Yggdrasil and the fact that it looks very bind rune like..was there possibly a building/house nearby at some time in the past that you know of? very strange,. especially if it hadnt been noticed previously, i know hunters and how not much escapes their eye..great thread

reply to post by nenothtu


reminds me of the arborday foundation and tree city usa:

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
I spend large amounts of my time doing this kind of canvassing.
I have a artifact and fossil collection to beat the band.
I would not even venture a guess besides a grave stone for what you show. Dig it out or be real about it being bedrock or a huge bolder.
You do not present enough information to make any kind of determination.
Stop posting and dig. I want to see the back of the object. If you please.

It's dark. I've already worked cutting wood all day. Patience is a virtue.

Since the rock is oriented horizontally, the "back" from the symbol would be the "bottom" of the rock, and I have no idea how far down it goes.

Furthermore, it's in the middle of a stream, and large enough that I don't have the wherewithall to move it. I'll not be digging it out, or digging the stream out from around it. I'll get up there for more pictures, measurements, and to see if I can discover any edges to indicate whether it's a part of the bedrock, or a separate stone, tomorrow.

I'm not going to disturb it, or the surroundings, any more than I absolutely have to.

I don't know about your people, but mine would never bury a loved one in the middle of a watercourse, among rocks. Since my people are the ones who live here, I'm fairly sure it''s not a grave marker.

Well if it is a headstone and someone was stealing it and they had to bunk it for some reason.
A small creek would work quite well. Or the wagon broke down crossing the creek and the folks never made it back to get the stone because they were attacked by Indians or cougars ate them.
If you could bring a slender metal rod and probe the perimeter of the stone so that you can get at least an overall measurement. There could be an important message on the reverse side.
I am not to far from you and have two helpers that dig like ground hogs.
Unless you think the stone is a part of the natural setting, what is to hurt to turn it out?

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by gazerstar
Is it dry right now? I'm curious if any other images might show up if you did an etching over it with a piece of paper and a pencil. I'm also curious about what it would look like at night if you shined a fluorscent light on it. Have you tried either of those things?

[edit on 30-3-2010 by gazerstar]

No, I haven't. When I went up there, it was raining, not conducive to make a rubbing,and I don't have a fluorescent light.

Previous posters have mentioned seeing the head of Ouroborus on the right .
I must say first thing I thought of in your crop of it was the eye predominant in the "artifacts" thread recently on ats.
Apparently the eye glows under black light...don't suppose you'd have one of those handy to see,had to mention it regardless.


edit for sp.

[edit on 31/3/10 by asIam]

Great find and great thread!

That symbol is very familiar to me. I've seen it before I can guarantee. I just can't place where and it's really getting on my nerves. I dunno maybe I dreamed it, but I KNOW I've seen it before.

Thanks for sharing your pictures with us and I hope the ones you get tomorrow can help in figuring this thing out.

reply to post by nenothtu


When I viewed this Strange Rock Carving without reading what you had

written about the carving Celtic popped into my brain. Further more

fairies or the little people came to mind. ^Y^

Suggestion: Go to the location of the Strange Rock Carving and take a

magnetic resonance reading and take a top of the line metal detector

and sweep the area. I will U2U ^Y^

Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by Logarock

Yes its not ogham but there were a lot of celtic types that moved around in those areas early 1700 and on. One can find thier names in old documents and early census records as they were in the original before many were anglicized. This could be something along the lines of a "holler"
claim marker. Is it easy to see for anyone gettting off the water way and heading up in there?

It's right in the middle of the stream bed, on the most likely avenue of approach from the river. The hillsides are steep, and it's much easier to walk right up the middle, where this rock is.

Some of those celtic types you mention are among my ancestors, and they were the first white folks in this area. Adam O'Brien was one of them, my "7 greats back" grandfather. I'm unfamiliar with this "holler marker" concept. Can you elaborate? where else could I find information on it?

It's my understanding that O'Brien blazed trees with a hatchet as markers.

"Holler marker" I made that for lack of a better word. What I mean is that if a small group of settlers moved up into that area off the main highways of old which were creek beds and river banks in that terrain, they may have put that out for a marker. A marker to indicate that someone already lived up there or this is the place for something, had been claimed ect ect.

The main creek that this run flows into is it even somewhat easy to walk? And that bottom area that all these runs empty into, does it go all the way to the Ohio River? Does that bottom posses any even small fields that a person could grow corn in or is it steep and rocky all the way down to the next largest water way?
Could someone walk down inot there following the waterways from the Ohio River?

Originally posted by amari
Suggestion: Go to the location of the Strange Rock Carving and take a

magnetic resonance reading and take a top of the line metal detector

and sweep the area. I will U2U ^Y^

...and if you dig anything up, it immediately stops becoming proof of anything.

Everybody has a little Indy Jones in them...but even he was a looter. If you raid a site, you are a looter. Again, I say resist the temptation, and get the pros involved. Archaeologists are fully aware that in the practice of their science, the database gets destroyed. That is why it is such a meticulous process. I repeat as well, that if a paradigm is to be changed, the process involves a rigorous set of rules and standards. Looting a site immediately disqualifies it from any relevance...and I think you're hoping for more out of this. Thanks again for starting this very interesting thread...and I assume that the 'branches' do not bear any resemblance to the topography, right?

Face due east and west and what do you see?

By the way the place you have marked as location isnt really a holler with branches. And it looks like its far enough up in there that you couldnt see it form the larger creek.

reply to post by Logarock


I was thinking the same. Maybe something to do as a corner marker of some kind for owned land/claim. and the tree symbol representing the owners name or place associated with it, might mean that there is a few more of these to find then.
Strange though, the stream might not have been there when the rock was carved, if old enough too.