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Strange Rock Carving

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posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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Ive found yet another link Archeology : An introduction by Kevin Greene. I havent yet been able to delve thouroughly into this page as its info is extensive. Im not even sure if it will be of assistance. Determining how to date Iron Oxide, I believe, is essential in this quest to identify the carver. Oxidization of iron ( apparently present upon annaysis of the rocks coloration) due to contigious elements or weathering, will provide an acurate method of dating. For instance coloration of the rock would be darker, lighter or differential in color, if it were say buried under decayed or decaying debri, exposed to open air, running water......My brain hurts

Dating the Past




posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 03:19 AM
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Phyllite I am not thinking this , its a slate type stone which means,layered, that's really hard to carve. chips/ shears where you don't want it too, without conventional tools. ( grinder
) unless that is how it was done ?As for the mortar comment,
now that is funny unless it was done a month ago, it wouldn't look like that with constant running water

Sorry I am on the other side of Terra don't know the stones in the area, my guess would be granite, close to the surface igneous rock. unless some hippi went in with a grinder




Phyllite has a good fissility (a tendency to split into sheets)






Wally



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 
LOL gotta love Appalachian

"In the studied soils, the ratio of oxalate- to dithionite-extractable iron (Feo/Fed), which indicates the degree of iron oxide crystallinity, progressively decreased from ratios greater than 0.5 to values less than 0.2 with increasing soil age and proved to be a reliable indicator of soil maturity."

Its this that I am hoping to define as It appears this is a mathmatical solution? Its repetitive in the research material Ive uncovered. I also found the article somewhat relevant to the area in terms of deposits. Got a clue? I sure dont. A periodic table? Devided by ? Inclusive and qualified by?




[edit on 1-4-2010 by MsAmen]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 03:45 AM
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reply to post by MsAmen
 


Near as I can tell, you have to be able to measure the relative amounts of those two types of iron (I haven't got a clue how, and the abstract doesn't say) in order to figure out the ratio between them.

The bit about that being an indicator of the crystallization of the iron is a side-track, and has no real bearing on the main thought, which is that the Fed part of the ratio gets smaller in relation to the Feo part of it as the dirt gets older. (ex: 1/6 is a smaller ratio that 1/2).

The ratios mentioned are 1/2 (0.5) and 1/5 (0.2), but they indicate that those are not the limits, by saying greater than' 0.5 and 'less than' 0.2.

The abstract also doesn't say what the correlation is, so we don't know what ratio indicates which age yet. They've probably developed a nomograph,or are now developing one with their data, but in order to use something like that, even if we had it, we'd have to be able to measure the relative amounts of those two irons, so that we could determine the ratio to apply to the nomograph and then read the approximate age off of it.

I'm gonna carry my slack butt off to bed pretty soon, as my eyes are starting to cross, and burn all at the same time. If I fall over, it just means I'll be back tomorrow.

Edit to add: I read this over, and realized that I completely left out the notion that if you can find the formulae used to correlate the iron ratios to the age column, you could then use them to determine an approximate age if you knew the ratio,and hang the dad-gum nomograph.

I don't know if that ratio varies like a radioactive half-life does (i.e. decreasing as a decay strictly governed by a known mathematical equation in a consistent manner) or in some other way. If you can find the equations to correlate ratio to age in this instance, you can find that out.

I'm hauling it off to bed now, before I start making even less sense than this.

[edit on 2010/4/1 by nenothtu]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 03:57 AM
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reply to post by auswally
 


Granite was also my first thought upon observation, (It too is indigenous to the region) however upon further examination of the rocks exterior ( I was captivated by the patina ) I observed a pattern to the crystalline structure( fractals ) inconsistent with Granites' sweeping contours. The most recent pics provide evidence of fragmentation atypical to granite devoid of vigorous stimuli. The area is comprised of soil elements consistent with the formation of Shale. Shale in its parental form, is fragile and yes without a talented hand, nearly impossible to carve, however the concentration of comprising elements within the rock, strengthen or weaken its structure producing a form that is more malleable.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by MsAmen]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:18 AM
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if you can find the formulae used to correlate the iron ratios to the age column, you could then use them to determine an approximate age if you knew the ratio,and hang the dad-gum nomograph.

YESS YESS

Got no idea of how to go about that and that’s the kicker. I am quite impressed by your comprehension of all that French at 5am my time. Parlez vous francais, indeed! I’ll take a second, third and fourth look at it all tomorrow when I’ve had some shut eye.

P.S.
The crevice, have you uncovered anything of relevance or interest?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 
This particular tribe is not local to the region (N/S Dakota) however their values are similar to the Shawnee ( post to follow)



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by okbmd
reply to post by nenothtu
 


Hey nenothtu, have you 'brushed' this thing to clean it up any, you know, with like a good mortar brush or something ?



Do not do this! Dont touch that surface with anything! I have made that mistake. IF you use a wire brush it will not only disrupt any age evidence it will leave microscopic metal smear in the rock. And if you know to what ends some folk will go to discredit any early european evidence in this country you would break out in a cold sweat at the thought of disrupting the surface.

[edit on 1-4-2010 by Logarock]



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by MsAmen
 


Phyllite wouldn't last with that amount of water flowing over it,so going on your theory its relative new then


Wally



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by auswally
 


I dissagree. Unfortunately Im still awake but my brain is real fuzzy. So fuzzy I cant find my own link or figure out how to copy and paste the pics that corroborate my hypothosis. I am interested in dating the piece to identifying the carver and the carvers intentions. What is your interest?



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 05:49 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


at first look, i noticed it did have any chisel marks on it more like.... hmmm..carved maybe .. .. odd.. still looking ..



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 06:04 AM
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reply to post by Komodo
 



This sort of work can be done with stone tools. By pecking and rubbing. This can account for the apparent continuity in the worked surface and the unworked.

If this had been worked with iron tools in the last 200 years lets say it would be very easy to determain under close exsamination.

We know that there was a copper culture in america years ago but copper is to soft and probably would not have been wasted carving this anyway. And if there was iron around then as some believe it was of soft type and certainly wouldnt have been wasted making this as it would have been to valuable. IMHO anyway.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 07:00 AM
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reply to post by MsAmen
 





What is your interest?


Same just I am a stonemason, a type of rock that you are trying to tell me is layered, in a stream, it wouldn't last , it would fracture/ splinter with water. Think of it like a book, with each page being a fracture line, that's how we cut this stone with old tools ( dates back thousands of years), water can and will do the same thing

I hope this helps you

Wally



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 08:00 AM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Thank you sir.

Just didn't want to be THAT feller at a party.

As for granite, I don't think I saw much until I went North.

Seems like most of the exposed rock in our area was sandstone and a blue-grey stone that looks like whetstone.

Slate?

It does look layered. Often, larger areas of that stone exposed in the creek bed have a wavy texture. It sometimes looks like mildy choppy water, undulating in every direction. It seems to be contoured to the flow of the water, gouged out fairly deeply in a lot of spots.

I've never seen it carved for any purpose.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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Forgive me if I am overlooking something that may be obvious to you all, but would it be such a stretch to assume that this rock could be a type of Limestone ?

Not being overly educated when it comes to rock, I am assuming that any type of shell could be ruled out simply because of it's 'layered' composition .

It would also seem to me , that sandstone could be dismissed due to it's make-up and the effects that erosion and other elements would have upon it .

From everything that I am finding , limestone is to be found in at least three different types in that part of the country , depending upon which 'level' it is from . It is even possible that this rock may have been displaced from a higher position on one of the ridges at some point in time .

It does resemble the limestone that is found around here where I am at in Oklahoma.

It also seems to me that granite could be ruled out , due to it's hardness ?
Just thinking out loud ...



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by okbmd
 


I'm sure you're correct.
Now that you mention it, limestone is what gives KY its' beautiful bluegrass and its' great horses.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 10:28 AM
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reply to post by MsAmen
 


"The first native settlers in central West Virginia ( Braxton, CALHOUN, Clay, Gilmer, Lewis, Nicholas, ROANE, Upshur, and Webster counties ) were the Mound Builders, also known as the Adena people ...

Several thousand Hurons occupied present-day West Virginia during the late 1500s and early 1600s .

During the 1600s , the Iroquois Confederacy (then consisting of the Mohawk , Onondaga , Cayuga , Oneida , and Seneca tribes ) drove the Hurons from the state ...

During the early 1700s , the Shawnee , Mingo , Delaware , and (other)
Indian tribes also used present-day West Virginia as a hunting ground .

West Virginia's Potomac Highlands was inhabited by the Tuscarora . The Cherokee Nation claimed southern West Virginia ." ( Calhoun County History )



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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It is quite beautiful. Whoever made it had very good aesthetic taste. Pretty original as well, I'm very familiar will ancient art and symbolism and I've seen few works that look anything like this.

There seems to be a good amount of weathering on it, perhaps a few thousand years worth.

Some native american of long ago decided to spend his/her time carving this out for no other reason than to create something beautiful and perhaps to contemplate upon it as a mandala. I would say they suceeded quite beautifully!

Thanks for posting this



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 11:43 AM
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Originally posted by okbmd
Forgive me if I am overlooking something that may be obvious to you all, but would it be such a stretch to assume that this rock could be a type of Limestone ?

Not being overly educated when it comes to rock, I am assuming that any type of shell could be ruled out simply because of it's 'layered' composition .

It would also seem to me , that sandstone could be dismissed due to it's make-up and the effects that erosion and other elements would have upon it .



Yes it probably is a type of lime stone. Thats what I thought anyway.



posted on Apr, 1 2010 @ 12:35 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Yes, that is the tree of life.

How is it so old, yet wasn't there perhaps even 6 months ago?

Traditional Native Americans would have seen this as a perfectly natural expression of the Earth Mother's will, power, and love.

Simply put, Western Society's perspective sees everything that is not a multi-cellular carbon based life form as dead and inert.

The Earth couldn't possibly have done it her self as an expression of her energies, because most people ONLY BELIEVE IN NOTHING. Well, except for repeating the same drivel (Our father who art in heaven...) to a God who does nothing at all except sits in a chair all day listening to mindless repetition from people he loves soooo much he is going to burn us all for being good people.

What is more realistic? That the Earth is a living, breathing entity as humanity ALWAYS used to believe that can create such a symbol overnight, or that a self indulgent asshole with no ability to act on humanity's behalf is pleased with our world societies' digging themselves into perpetual debt, and mindlessly praying over our food that HE NEVER PROVIDES (the EARTH DOES).

What is the difference between a mountain that formed naturally, or an EXACT looking mountain that was a magical beast 50,000 years ago that died and melded with the Earth to become said mountain?

Well, the truth is that to observational scientific research techniques, there will be no difference, and to historians who recorded the belief of ancient peoples that mentioned the magical origins, their ancestors will be seen as stupid, backwoods, morons with no development, because that is how we have been programed by modern society.

To the foolish self important debunkers, nothing is possible but a 9 to 5 work day, drinking and eating, and buying worthless crap from China, then retiring only to stick their children with the continuing ruin we are facing right now.

The earth is manifesting the old energies of legend, and simply put the people who constantly think that the supernatural is just a stupid person's dream, are the very same people who are so disconnected that they would lose all social skills simply because the store is out of low-fat milk.

Magical energies such as represented by this new tree of life will alienate a great number of people simply because a portion of humanity is evolving upwards, and the rest are so dependent on Cheetos, TV and Mt. Dew that they are literally devolving back to a more primitive mental state (I.E Morlocks and other violent blood thirsty sub human species).

You see it on ATS all the time. These supposed debunkers with no social skills, understanding, or love for others trying to tell everyone else that magic, ETs or anything non-tecnological is stupid, ALL tribal peoples, the Greeks, Romans, etc. are stupid for believing in a magical reality.

You see this s*it on TV, video games, and all media all the time, magical happenings occur every day and yet, the devolving of modern society laugh as they see a child get their head cut off, or a innocent victim suffer. Suffering on a show or movie is still suffering, and they are literally becoming monkeys again, but this time they wear business suits and tell us that we are stupid for letting them sell us out to China for no reason.

Trust me, Gaia is alive. She has breath, skin, blood, she moves independently of the idiots on her surface, and far too many people are hollowed out slaves to the cheap burger, and the evil machinations of the devolved apes in charge of the lives of the intelligent people who actually COULD run a country somewhere other than into the ground.

Watch the responses on ATS to anything slightly non-conformist and you receive the same psychotic deluge of uneducated fools who just come here to tell others they are stupid and should shut up. I would rather throw everyone of these people into a wood chipper than let them run ANYTHING AT ALL.

These people (who need a forum like ATS to ridicule and degrade others to fulfill their emotional feeding requirements) DO NOT CONTRIBUTE TO SOCIETY, they only FURTHER THE BRAIN DRAIN that the intelligent ATSers have been complaining about for YEARS!

This symbol is very likely a beginning of a return to the mythological, the magical, and a world that isn't always on the brink of destruction. The psychic vampires of our society can't stand someone who doesn't mindlessly obey 10,000 forgotten rules they barely have the capacity to read themselves.

Psychic vampires are obsolete, and this manifestation of the Tree of Life through living rock, is EXACTLY what our ANCESTORS BELIEVED IN!

All you parasites will find this planet to become more and more hostile to your rape of our beautiful mother, and these stupid, ignorant leaches on our society will simply devolve to nothingness, or they will conform to a more magical world.

Just because a scientist researches something doesn't make it true or absolute, and just because a post on ATS receives 5,000 stars for ridiculing the presentation of the esoteric, magical or bizarre, it doesn't make it a good one. Magic is coming, and the healthy people left will be able to FINALLY make decisions that create a beautiful world, rather than the psychotics who think that war and patriotism are simply the natural order.

They will never believe and see the world and everyone in it as completely stupid, which makes them smart because they don't have enough compassion and understanding to tie their shoes without emotional breakdowns, yet everyone else has to foot their nasty mentalities and stupid perspectives.

Oh that light is a bird! Oh this is a hoax! How mindless and pedantic, but the true beauty of Gaia is revealed in this picture and we are on the verge of the changes we need to get the stupid monkeys from telling the rest of us how to live.





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