The social issue no one in Australia wants to talk about

reply to post by DangerDeath


There are MORE Australian Aborigines NOW than there were when the First Fleet landed. So they have prospered and increased

Aborigines practiced cannibalism. They practised infanticide as a birth-control method. They slashed and burned and destroyed thousands of square miles, turning what were once majestic ancient forests into scrub and bush

When the First Fleet landed on Australian soil, the whites were outnumbered by Aborigines by over a thousand to one. Outnumbered by spear-wielding natives who knew the area like the backs of their hands. The whites, by comparison, were exhausted after a six month journey in small, leaky boats and having existed on scarced rotten food

The Aborigines practised paedophilia with the old men taking little girls (think seven and eight year olds) a wives, while the old women took youths as husbands

Most Aborigines today have to be taught by whites how to recreate their traditional culture. That's because Aborigines sought to ape the white culture. Were not compelled to. Wanted what the whites had and did and abandoned their culture without a backwards glance

As recently as the 1960s, Sydney university taught that the more white blood an Aborigine had, the more easily he could be educated, the more willing he would be to work

The Australian Aborigine atrophied after departing southern India and arriving in Australia. Atrophied. His skills and culture atrophied and this is known to anthropologists, Yet there's this popular myth that Aborigines 'lived in harmony with Nature and trod gently on the land'.

No, they did not. They were regressing

In any event, back when the truth was able to be told, i.e. before false histories replaced the facts, the Australian Aborigine was regarded by anthropologists as the most backward people on the planet and was estimated by the experts to be a minimum of 250,000 years behind even the African Bushmen

Different blood group. Different number of teeth to the vast majority of humans, overhanging brow, etc. And sufficient numbers to have killed all the whites who landed with ease. The whites ordinarily wouldn't have stood a chance against such overwhelming odds. So it cannot be claimed whites took Australia from the Aborigines without a lot of help from those Aborigines

But hey, an hour watching History Channel is all it takes for most to feel they know it all about a people they like to idealise but sure as hell wouldn't tolerate living amongst

Originally posted by scubagravy

On a side note, people who rent houses and suddenly cant afford it or have asked the real estate to fix something or else they'll pay no further rent, end up trashing the joint in some form of retribution.

This sort of retribution trashing is big here in the states. Everybody white and blacks do it for a number of really similar reasons.

Kudos Chad for bringing this into the open mate.

I think some of those who have attacked you need to re-read the post to understand that you are not being racist, but only trying to bring this to light. I also see that you desire to find a way to sort this problem out for all concerned, especially the children who are suffering.

As another who has had something to do with the Native Australian peoples, I've also seen both sides of the coin, those who CHOOSE to live as portrayed, and the few who decided to get out of that poverty cycle and become educated then build a career.

I had native aussie neighbours for a few years and was continually rescuing the little ones from our busy road because the parents/adults were drunk/stoned and didn't give a toss. When taking the little ones to their home I was always harrased (sp) as being Racist by the adults who aswered the door.

No matter how many times I explained that for me, we are equals, we bleed the same colour, etc, and that the children are all important, I still copped a lot of abuse, and heaps of derision for being white.

The children were beautiful and no different to any other small child, with the exception of being filthy-dirty and wearing one nappy all day so that it leaked out the sides as they crawled into my girls trampoline, etc.

I've seen so many houses wrecked in such short timeframes, and wondered why no thanks or respect was shown by those who were GIVEN housing for free. I wondered why adults would do such things when they wanted the housing and assistance.

I do understand the history, and I understand the mistake made with Positive Discrimination over all these years. I do get annoyed at the total lack of Equality in this system so that a white person on Education Allowance is paid far less than a native aussie, and we could add many more examples to that which would make the longest of lists.

Education is the only answer I can find. Educate the kids. At my girl's school I could see white kids and black kids playing together, being friends and just being kids. But at some point in the pre-teen to teen years that goes out the window with pressure from the adults to not associate with "white c...s". They are then taught to hate us for what WE did to them.

I did nothing to them. I offer friendship, empathy, understanding, and help where I can and yet I was always being verbally or at times even physically attacked for it.

I've met some native aussies who do try to live as they did over 200 years ago.. which by the way was never a Utopia by any means despite what the Bleeding Hearts want us to believe about it. Their existence was just as savage with their laws as were the laws and punishments of the English Invaders.

What yanks my chain is that black australia still keeps itself separated and will not allow whites into the deeper understanding of their spiritual beliefs. I've wanted to sit and share with Elders and Kaditcha, yet because I am white this is taboo. I on the other hand see that the time for walls, for divisions, for with-holding should be over so that we can share the best of all the cultures in our lands.

All I can do is shine brightly and be me, speak honestly with all people despite colour, and love all as equal human beings. My hope is that maybe one or two people, despite their race or background, will see another way to be and then begin to grow themselves.

Sorry for running off with this but it is something I feel strongly about... for I am a Native Australian.. I was born to this country without the sins of my forefathers being on my shoulders. That I am white skinned should mean nothing.

reply to post by pieman


Yes I am surprised...Because logic tells me "income management" may well improve quality of life for some of these people and their children...

One thing tho...I am able to look at the whole situation logically, and consider things which may help these people...

You on the other hand, have sprouted nothing but crap in this thread on a subject about which you know nothing

My point being, get informed, or shut up...

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Retrovertigo]

Originally posted by Dock9
Aborigines practiced cannibalism. They practised infanticide as a birth-control method. They slashed and burned and destroyed thousands of square miles, turning what were once majestic ancient forests into scrub and bush

source?

When the First Fleet landed on Australian soil, the whites were outnumbered by Aborigines by over a thousand to one.

source?

The Aborigines practised paedophilia with the old men taking little girls (think seven and eight year olds) a wives, while the old women took youths as husbands

source?

The Australian Aborigine atrophied after departing southern India and arriving in Australia. Atrophied. His skills and culture atrophied and this is known to anthropologists, Yet there's this popular myth that Aborigines 'lived in harmony with Nature and trod gently on the land'.

No, they did not. They were regressing

source?

In any event, back when the truth was able to be told, i.e. before false histories replaced the facts, the Australian Aborigine was regarded by anthropologists as the most backward people on the planet and was estimated by the experts to be a minimum of 250,000 years behind even the African Bushmen

yup, and jews have horns, right?

Different blood group. Different number of teeth to the vast majority of humans, overhanging brow, etc.

source?

But hey, an hour watching History Channel is all it takes for most to feel they know it all about a people they like to idealise but sure as hell wouldn't tolerate living amongst

and all i needed to do to get the truth was listen to a hate mongering, fact twisting bigot on the internet, wow, who'ld a thunk!!

Oh, come on!
Regressing!
And our civilization is progressing? To what end? Look around.
Aborigines did not have organized state and their numbers were not under single command to react to the white criminals that were purposefully brought to Australia, truly a penal colony, for reeducation purpose!

You assume that life is good and death is bad. But, that is an assumption. And you make your judgment upon this assumption. Good for you. Thus you can justify all you do as long as you keep being alive. So, the result of such philosophy (live at any cost - a philosophy of slaves) is the world in which we find ourselves totally threatened by each other but still "advancing" towards the "most secure of all worlds" ideal, where everybody will be checked and safely processed for further usage.

I bet, you will find people like described aboriginal women, covered in filth, in "greater than expected" numbers in London or New York, Karachi and Bombay and Beijing. But it's been very well hidden from the public eyes.

Read the statistics of how many people live in slums at this moment and what are the projections. Right now, there is more than one billion people living in such conditions and their numbers are growing. To observe Australian aborigines in such a way is clearly an attempt to hide the real issue - one fifth of humanity live in similar conditions. This is the issue that needs to be addressed in the light of "progressing/regressing" idea.

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
Yes I am surprised...Because logic tells me "income management" may well improve quality of life for some of these people and their children...

but it won't improve things for the government, or the people who elect the government, but keeping them down will help the government and the people who elect them because if they're drunk and down trodden, they won't demand mining, farming and water rights.

You on the other hand, have sprouted nothing but crap in this thread on a subject about which you know nothing

My point being, get informed, or shut up...

informed about what? what is it i need to find out about, nothing presented here has enlightened me in any way. if you think i don't know the facts, point them out. if i'm wrong in anything i say, point out the flaw.

the australian aborigine is in the exact same situation as every other aboriginal people in the world, under similar circumstances and with similar results, what exactly am i missing from the picture?

[edit on 24/3/10 by pieman]

I have no knowledge about this situation other than what I see and read from the media, so I have a question.

I believe that people, generally speaking, are all equal. This of course is debatable, for many reasons; but essentially, I would have thought that if the aboriginal community is distinct, or purposefully separate from the rest, they would have some kind of 'leader(s)' who represent them, or their interests to the host government (whether they accept the validity of the host or not).

Do the Aboriginal people have spokespeople? Are their 'teachers' or 'deep thinkers' among them? Do they respond to their people's condition in any constructive way? Do the Abroginal consider themsleves 'one' people, or are they as strongly tribal as many other such populations?

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
You are right, Chad...

This issue is something that continually gets swept under the carpet and everyone simply refuses to deal with it...

You mentioned in one of your posts "we've paid tenfold for the crimes and atrocities we inflicted on their ancestors"...I do agree with that...

However I do also believe indigenous Australians still need all the help and support the nation can provide for them, and I dont believe that's necessarily financial either...

In fact, many prominent indigenous Australians like Mick Dodson say exactly that, its not really a case of money and you could throw a trillion dollars at the problem and it wouldnt be solved...

On the other hand, I honestly don't know how we solve that problem, I really don't...

I am touched by your concern for your fellow humans sharing your country. I really am, and find it really rare to see someone like you even in your own country, let alone here.

I’ve been to Brisbane, Bondi beach and saw how apart the aborigines and the colonials behave – separated, each doing their own thing, whites with whites, blacks with blacks.

I stepped into pubs, and am shocked to see only whites in the crowded pub. I’ve been to many places around the world, and had seen how people of all kinds of ethnic groups blend and mix in recreational activities, but none seem to be happening in Australia, or only in a few selected areas.

Why do the Australians hate the aborigines so much and for so long?

Rather than to dwell upon the fault lines, I think the solution would be closer integration, beginning today with the children.

There was a time in the past when such an idea was adopted, where the aborigines’ children were forcefully taken away from their mothers in a crazy and far fetched eugenics policy by the govt. This must not be repeated.

There may be no hope for any change with the adults, as both sides had suffered and carried away by emotional baggage to be rational, but the next generation in 40 years time from today will grow and mature with a better understanding, and more forgiveness as they relate themselves to each other in their formative years.

Integration would be mean affirmative action tailored for the aborigines’ kids. Protection for them from racism, but not mollycoddling. Both white and kids must be made to participate as a team on projects, be encouraged and never to be written off as worthless, regardless white or black.

As for the present adults, instead of giving them monies directly, help to create industries of their own. Workshops be created to help them integrate into this new century and new concepts of technology and philosophies. Motivation is only solution to help them.

Noticed that I did not call to end racism. It’s because I have no hope, and am disillusion that the current adults will ever end it even in the work place. That emotion of superiority dies hard, more so from the whites who often boasts of ancestry back to European kings.

Let the current live off their deluded fantasies, but staff the schools with rational teachers from beginning of education to the Universities, whose added and special role and responsibility is to end racism.

No need to hide history, but to be honest and show it as it as, with a world view on the mistakes mankind made.

In order to ensure that these precious kids, white and black do not get influenced by racism fueled by the parents or adults, special laws be created to punish racial hatred, on top of regular soft campaigns to remind them of their responsibility not only to the country, but to humanity as well.

We are all, - white, black, red, brown, yellow, etc – one race. The human race.

I apologise if I had offended any Australilans. It is not my place to comment espacailly on such a sensitive topic, but my post is only a reply to the above mentioned author, and hope things may go well for his/her country. Good Luck! :-)

Racist statements for eg -
" I have done research on benefits available only to Aboriginals and challenge anyone to tell me how Aboriginals are disadvantaged when they can obtain 3 and 5% housing loans denied to non-Aboriginals."

Show a lack of information and balance. If you had done your research properly you would have found out that Aboriginal housing conditions were nowhere near what the average Australian enjoyed. More than 9% of the Indigenous population in rural areas lived in "caravans, shacks and improvised accommodation" and 9% of Aboriginal people's rural homes did not have a toilet.

"I draw the line when told I must pay and continue paying for something that happened over 200 years ago."

This comment shows a lack of empathy and compassion for other people's situation. Racist people have trouble putting themselves into the shoes of others. I saw some comments on this racist thread which echo the Australian media racism for eg.


Anyone who is exposed to continuous racism suffers, no matter if this racism occurs at a young age at school or later in adult life.

93% of the people who took part in a three-year study of the Flinders University's Southgate Institute in South Australia reported experiencing racism, particularly within the justice and education systems [//Poor health, racism go hand in hand - research', Koori Mail 448 p.32//]. Experienced regularly racism leads to poor health the study found.

"We found that Aboriginal people do not primarily have a higher rate of illness because they lack knowledge of what behaviours are good for their health," the study's chief investigator, Dr Anna Ziersch says.

"Compared with the general population, twice as many Aboriginal people did not drink and most exercised regularly—and yet they had worse physical and mental health."

Ongoing racism can have the following effects on a person's health:

* heart disease,
* premature birth,
* hypertension,
* mental illness,
* physical illness,
* suicide.

Australia is a emerging pillar of Racism with many of racist Australian in delusion about not being racist. Does not matter anyway because karma always gets back, Enjoy the racism while it lasts.

This generational problem happens because when they came... you know who are they right? I'm not a racist, I just have the guts to point that out.
They came as a conqueror, they impose their view to these people, which obviously cannot adjust to the new regime and since the new conqueror is utterly a clueless bunch and doesn't know how to fix the problem (try not to treat them like outcasts, idiots). The problem becomes a generational one.

Then there's the other they, that other they come from the far east. They too migrate to all over the world. But they don't have this kind of problem, why? Because that other they come as immigrants, real immigrants, they don't dictate the native what to do.

Most people once in their history commit slavery, but it's the type of slavery that exist even in the modern times both in subtle and not so subtle form, it's called... class slavery. But there's another type of slavery, that is not so often happen, and there's one kind of people who practice it at a more global scale, it's called.... racial slavery.

I'm not a racist, really I'm not, I'm just a guy who has the guts to point that out.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Why do the Australians hate the aborigines so much and for so long?

It can be their guilt and weak attempt to not to face reality of how racist Australia conducted genocide on Aboriginals. If a people has done an historical wrong it remains in the national conscience and is passed on to future generations. Germans pass on their feelings about the crimes of the Third Reich to their children, more than 60% of whom still feel guilt and even more a huge responsibility for what was done in their country's name. But Australians generally deny any responsibility for the crimes against the country's Indigenous peoples. Comparison with the Third Reich is not far fetched, with many Australian writers comparing Australia's missions and government reserves with Nazi concentration camps.

A guilty conscience can have two effects: For one, the government tries to educate people to prevent such crimes ever happening again. For another, by the time German teenagers graduate from high school they will have been taught thoroughly about the Nazis in history lessons. The danger there can be that they no longer want to hear about it and this is where the current Australia is.

reply to post by pieman


Pieman quote:

Decent plain food, like beer and flour and water made into a poor bread over a fire?

the cycle was created by white people, it hadn't existed before white people, lets not pretend it's any different.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say here

and it looks as if you don't know either



The reason Aboriginal kids mix flour and water into damper and cook it on an open fire is because they don't know their fathers

their siblings generally have different fathers

their mother is collapsed in a heap somewhere and doesn't bother with stuff like feeding kids

and their kids are hungry


As for WHY Aborigines eat damper ... it's because it's easier than living traditionally

it's easier than fishing or hunting

And it was the way from the moment whites set foot in Australia

It was the whites who were on foreign ground

It was the whites who were starving after living on salt-beef and weevil infested hard sea biscuits for months on the journey to a hostile land

So the whites made do with flour and water damper ---- until they'd cleared land -- planted seed --- watered their crop -- harvested their crop --- transported their crop to home-made millstones to get flour, etc.


The Aborigines had tens of thousands of years experience in living off the land. They knew which berries and seeds were good or bad. They knew where the fish were. They knew how to bring down a kangaroo or catch turtles

There was NO NEED for Aborigines to go hungry OR to adopt white foods

But Aborigines are scavengers. And that's what they did. Instead of going to fish or hunt for nutritious foods, they hung around the tiny white settlements, begging. ' Gimme grub boss. Gimme grog boss'

In fact, the Aboriginal way of life prior to whites was a scavenging way of life

in a claimed 30,000 year pre-white occupation in Australia, Aborigines never developed a written language --- never discovered the wheel --- had never developed agriculture --- had never erected any permanent edifice

As soon as whites hit the beach, Aborigines were scavenging from the whites. Not preventing whites from settling, despite the very small numbers of whites in comparison to the numbers of Aborigines

If 350,000 Aborigines were unwilling and/or unable to drive out a couple of hundred sad and exhausted, starving whites --- then hey, to the victor go the spoils and Aborigines deserve to have 'lost' this land to the whites. But honestly, the Aborigines didn't really care. They were more interested in getting their hands on the white's grog, the white's axes, the white's 'fast foods' such as weevily flour and salt beef. Easier than fishing, brother. Easier than hunting. And it's still that way




[edit on 24-3-2010 by Dock9]

reply to post by pieman


What you are missing is there is absolutely nothing Australians living now can do to change what was done to indigenous Australians by the people who initially settled here, and after, by other Australians who wronged them...

Not a thing...

Thus we have two choices:-

A) Do nothing and let them rot and eventually die off as a people...Or continue failed government policies of the past which have involved simply throwing huge amounts of money at largely corrupt indigenous land councils and other organisations...

or

B) Ensure those receiving government benefits spend a certain % of the money to ensure themselves and their children can at least eat and so forth...We also need to offer more indigenous Australians the opportunity to live on their traditional lands, if they wish to....This should be supported by help with setting up enterprises that can make them self-sufficient...

Now then...You've done nothing but rabbit on about how they were wronged, etc, etc...

I am the first person to recognise that, however I wish to see indigenous Australians live their lives in whatever way they want and wish to see the problems they suffer fixed, if thats possible...

So champ *pats you on the head*, whats your suggestion ? How would you help indigenous Australians given you seem to know it all ?

Originally posted by Dock9
Aborigines never developed a language

okay tonto, do us all a favor, step away from the keyboard and go play with the traffic, darwin has a special place in history for you.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


You make a lot of valid points, Seeker And if anyone's offended by those, "bugger em", to use an Australian-ism

I agree that integration is important for those indigenous Australians that want to live that way, and those who wish to live a more "traditional" life should be absolutely encouraged and supported to do so...

Thanks again for a great post

reply to post by pieman


Thank you for pointing that out

Has now been corrected to 'written language'

You're complaining about how they live? Get over it, we have worse here in the states, and no it's not just the blacks. They are called rednecks and they live in the 'deep south', I've seen many homes and property worse than that, in fact I live right down the street from a neighbourhood worse than that. The only difference is they live in trailors and they're white, and they vote republican almost 100% of the time.

On the other hand, I honestly don't know how we solve that problem, I really don't...

I think a major part of the issue is that our govern has persistantly victimised them, offered them little incentive to help themselves, given them special treatment and hand outs to the point that many of them beleive they deserve it.

The government has thrown money at them years with the dole and similar payments, despite them having no wish to become white.
There is a vast gulf between their culture and white folks, most of the last few generations are caught between the two, fitting in to neither.

Racism has played a part, lets be honest, We only aborted the white Australia policy in 1973. Descrimination in finding jobs and a sheer lack of industry to accomodate a sustaining trade in the remote areas where they live, means most young there wont ever get a job.

But chadwickus is right, Like any peoples, there are losers and rednecks and 'Ner-do-wels' As parents they should be forced to raise their children in such a way as to meet Modern welfare criteria, be that, tribal or as white folk do.

Perhaps if we hadnt interfered the first time (stolen Generations) they might have continued living as they always had. We dont make remote african tribes raise their kids like white folk, we dont interfere.
The zulu are Zulu, why cant aboriginies be aboriginies.

We are all Australians now, get over it, history is written. Either go out and live on the land peacefully as you always have, or accept the conveniences and drawbacks (alcohol) of the modern way of life in this country and its laws, and expect nothing anyone else dosent get.

Australian Law or Aboriginal Law, Choose.

You're complaining about how they live? Get over it, we have worse here in the states, and no it's not just the blacks. They are called rednecks and they live in the 'deep south', I've seen many homes and property worse than that, in fact I live right down the street from a neighbourhood worse than that. The only difference is they live in trailors and they're white, and they vote republican almost 100% of the time.

I wonder if their children starve and huff petrol though? Are they sexually abused? Law protects them as you, But if your neighbours kids are badly neglected, you dont look the other way do you?
Well the australian Gov looks the otherway, for the most part, because introducing legislations to protect these kids is seen as racist by the parents and upheald by the PC courts. Even the australian public cried 'racist' when recent laws were introduced in WA.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

Originally posted by Retrovertigo
So champ *pats you on the head*, whats your suggestion ? How would you help indigenous Australians given you seem to know it all ?

eh, how the hell do i know, i'm not an australian aboriginal, maybe you could start by asking them what they want instead of whining that they don't respect the western way of life the government provides.

then you should probably stop letting newspapers and general a=holes spout racist bull***t about them.

the bulk of my answer revolves around treating people with respect and allowing them their dignity, so it probably won't suffice.