The social issue no one in Australia wants to talk about

page: 5
31
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join

posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:39 PM
link   
reply to post by peck420
 


I'm just wondering what you call Generations of Abuse and Neglect?

I don't know exactly when the White Man became involved with the Aboriginies but, wasn't it the Aboriginies that first attacked and killed the First White men to come to this country, Australia?

I don't know how to feel about all this "We Invaded their Country", business. I'm trying to work out where the White Man could have gone in order to further our Race? We had to Spread out. It was the only "Natural" thing we could do. Because we chose to live on the same Land as the Aboriginies, we became the Invaders? We had to defend ourselves and when the time was right, wasn't it a Natural thing to help the Aboriginies and Help them advance their own race?

It's like I said in the other post. If we had of left the Aboriginies alone, they would have died out on their own. The first couple of Major Diseases would have probably brought an end to their race.

Anyhow, It's been well known that the Polynesians were the first people to inhabit the Land of Australia and not the Aboriginies.




posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:53 PM
link   
So let me get this straight: You oppress them, you force them onto reservations, you remove their culture. And I know all about the "schools"; they did that here. It was to remove any native culture and try to make them white. Racism is still rampant which is pretty obvious by this thread.

But then you act astounded that when you hand them a check, they tear it up and stomp at it and then you accuse them of being ungrateful brats.

Yea, the problem is definetly theirs.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 04:54 PM
link   

Originally posted by Damian-007
I don't know how you fix all this but, I do know one thing. After seeing how they live, I cannot See how they could have ever survived on their own.


Not the issue...what you say reinforces the fact that what's going on now doesn't work...so what's your programme for the future? Education...leadership...health. Talk to your reps and make the point, That's how it becomes up to you. I'm sure there are advisory committees...try to get on board. Do your best to solve a problem that is a rot in your society.

Ranting is easy...as this thread has pointed out. But it doesn't do squat.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:17 PM
link   

Originally posted by Damian-007
reply to post by peck420
 


I don't know exactly when the White Man became involved with the Aboriginies but, wasn't it the Aboriginies that first attacked and killed the First White men to come to this country, Australia?


Who cares who started what and how? What matters is the now and future.



I'm just wondering what you call Generations of Abuse and Neglect?

Australia has been governed as an independent state since 1901. That's 109 years. A generation is accepted as 20-22 years, so that's 5 generations of mismanagement.

And, as with all things, it takes half as much time to destroy as it does to rebuild.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 05:56 PM
link   
This might seem a bit harsh but I think it needs said.

Tribes, groups of people, countires and nations have invaded took over land killed the indigenous population since they could lift a rock and smash some blokes head in for his stuff.

Why is it that nowadays only white people are held responsable for this? They are meant to apoligise and make sure the indigenous population get cared for and get more help than the invaders because there ohh so hard done by.

Man what a lot of bull. Invaders came they saw, took what they wanted from the weak and jogged on down the road happy as Larry.

Is that not what natural selection is about the strong survining and the weak dying.

Think on this take every indigenous population that ever got invaded and put the shoe on the other foot, you think they would have hung back and said "dammm there indigenous we can't kill them for there stuff, lets just find someplace else"

No the strong take from the weak so why apoligise for it.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by nixie_nox
So let me get this straight: You oppress them,


I've never oppressed anyone in my life, in fact most modern Australians haven't and as I've said, how long do we need to be accountable for something our ancestors did?


you force them onto reservations, you remove their culture.


The only 'reservation' is Arnham land and those that live there choose to live there, to enter this land you need permission because it comes under traditional aboriginal law, is this what you would call removing their culture?



And I know all about the "schools"; they did that here. It was to remove any native culture and try to make them white. Racism is still rampant which is pretty obvious by this thread.


I assume you're talking about the stolen generation and are obviously stuck on this one blight on white Australians past.

There are many, go research what happened in Tasmania, truly shocking and saddening stuff.

But the thing is, and this is where most people start sprouting the racist word about, that's all in the past, the aboriginal people need to move forward and either stop leaning on the government for handouts or alternatively take advantage of these handouts and pull themselves out of the slums that they choose to live in.

There is no reason for their children to be stealing money from them just so they can eat, there is no reason for them to get sick and have nothing done about it because hospitals and doctors cost them nothing, there is no reason they can't get educated, schooling is free, there is no reason to live in the dirt, they get homes rent free.

No one else but themselves can fix these issues.

Let me ask you, would you let a child crawl inside a wall cavity, knowing full well there are live wires in there?



But then you act astounded that when you hand them a check, they tear it up and stomp at it and then you accuse them of being ungrateful brats.

Yea, the problem is definetly theirs.



They don't tear the check up, they want this money, they want it bad.

Many get their money and go straight to the pub and blow it all on alcohol, then stumble home and rape their children.

This is why many towns now ban take away alcohol sales, this is why millions have been spent sending police and other government agencies into community trying to eradicate the above issue....and it is a HUGE issue, I personally believe the effort by the government is a token, kneejerk reaction but at least it's something because this kind of abuse has been going on for decades.

So yes, I act suprised and get angry when I see adult human beings treating themselves and their families like animals.


[edit on 24/3/10 by Chadwickus]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by jpmail
No the strong take from the weak so why apoligise for it.


Is that how you Scots reationalise it? Seems to me you're looking at taking back as much legislative power...from the invader...as you can,



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:21 PM
link   

Originally posted by Dock9

Those 'bad' white nurses had to scrub those women down, change the water, scrub them again, rinse and scrub again. Each time, layers of what looked like skin peeled from their bodies and into the water. First time my sister experienced it, she nearly fainted, because she believed it was skin. Until it was explained to her that what looked like skin and what was peeling away from those bodies was layer after layer of clothing, some of it years old, to the point it had adhered to the patient's real skin in some instances. Those women simply put one lot of clothing over the last, year after year ... never bathed, never removed the layers of clothing.


Whoa, that's totally death metal.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
I feel I should speak as I have connections to these people. One of my best friends is a young Aboriginal woman. She is a sweetheart and is very smart, and pretty too. My grandmother has worked with the Aboriginal people and KNOWS that before the English came, they had a very advanced society. The difference is it's spiritually, not physically, advanced, and people don't get that.

This is the best post I've read on this thread so far as it provides a basic fact that is often left unsaid. So thank you Donnie.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:34 PM
link   

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by jpmail
No the strong take from the weak so why apoligise for it.


Is that how you Scots reationalise it? Seems to me you're looking at taking back as much legislative power...from the invader...as you can,


I would never claim I could speak for the scots but England was the stonger power, they came the saw, they took what they wanted. Fits in exactly with what I said.

Although you will hear about the highland clearances and a few battles no one in Scotland is given any more or less than what the invaders give there own people and we tend to live pretty much the same way the English do.

It was not my intent to rationalse anything I was stating a cold hard fact we humans regardless of colour will always use what ever advantage we have over the other guy to get what we want.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:42 PM
link   
Lotta people don't know this so I'll just tell it how it is.

There is no services or infrastructure or employment in most aboriginal communities and the government is trying to force people off their land.

Every week the aboriginal officer from centrelink shows up with a bunch of checks and calls your name. If you aren't there he sticks it in his pocket and keeps it for himself.

The land councils are corrupt. ATSIC was corrupt. All the funding goes to a few officials and individuals to buy houses and cars while the rest feed on the scraps.

It's wasted on pork and administration.

In the communities the people are still very tribal. But they are also jealous. They don't want anyone else to get ahead. If you start up a store or a business they'll just burn it down because if their life is bad why should anyone else get ahead?

Alcohol and violence is a problem but so is corruption and waste and isolation and ignorance of the truth.

I've seen housing commission houses with no power where people take out the walls to start a fire. I've seen guys get cars from the government and drive them till they break down and just abandon them.

As a people we aboriginals have no pride or faith in ourselves. Many people feel hopeless and don't even try.

[edit on 24-3-2010 by belial259]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by belial259
As a people we aboriginals have no pride or faith in ourselves. Many people feel hopeless and don't even try.


Thanks for chiming in, especially if you are aboriginal yourself. I tout respect, health care, education, good food and water...and good leadership as prime needs to affect change. That's my Canadian perspective based on our aboriginal experience. Make sense to you, or am I off base?



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:54 PM
link   
I'm sorry folks, I'm gonna get slapped for this one by some of you, but I dont' care.

I've read every post here.

Chad, congrats on speaking up for yourself.

Here's my beef.

The idea that ANYBODY owns land, whether aboriginal or settler, is ABSURD.

We belong to it, not the other way around.

There's plenty of it to go around.

Yes, people are responsible for their own actions. You can't fix the past. You can apologize and you can work out special interests for people who have been wronged, but if they don't strive to help themselves, then the problems will simply compound themselves.

It's like giving a coke head 100$ everyday and then complaining that he's buying coke instead of using it for food or rehab.

Why not save the money a little bit and then pay for his rehab? What a novel idea?

Spend smart.

You ever seen any situation get fixed by simply throwing money at it?

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 06:58 PM
link   

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

It's like giving a coke head 100$ everyday and then complaining that he's buying coke instead of using it for food or rehab.

Why not save the money a little bit and then pay for his rehab? What a novel idea?

Spend smart.

You ever seen any situation get fixed by simply throwing money at it?

~Keeper


Essentially? Just what I'm sayin'.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 07:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

It's like giving a coke head 100$ everyday and then complaining that he's buying coke instead of using it for food or rehab.

Why not save the money a little bit and then pay for his rehab? What a novel idea?

Spend smart.

You ever seen any situation get fixed by simply throwing money at it?

~Keeper


Essentially? Just what I'm sayin'.


Us Canadians know Johny


Mind you I know nothing of this particular group of Aboriginals, but I've spent tons of time on the Native American reserves here in Canada, my husband being a pediatrician travels there once a month to do house calls for sick children.

They are a wonderful people, even the fact that we've done what we've done, they seem to take it all in and most of them are very respectfull.

We have just horribly mis-managed this entire affair when it comes to bringing their culture back from the 1600's and making them a part of our wonderful Mosaic.

~Keeper



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 07:05 PM
link   
reply to post by Chadwickus
 


Hey Chadwickus

Firstly I want to state I consider you a friend and I totally understand you are not a racist. I also understand your frustration with watching people waste their lives away. I commend you on your care factor its refreshing to see and shows what a good person you truly are.

For relevance facts I am not Indigenous.

There are some deeper factors involved here that have not been covered in the thread yet.
When you understand why someone does something it doesn’t hurt as much.
In other words when you see whats really affecting them you will see they must fix themselves and all you require is faith they will make it, helping means unconditional love and allowing people to make mistakes and come back to you not judged.

Australian Indigenous people are the oldest nomadic tribe in the world. They were never meant to settle in one spot. White settlement made them settle. This is where the unhappiness comes from. 40,000 years of nomadic culture in their DNA and that genetic language doesn’t sit well with this new ‘settled in one spot culture’ here. 200 years VS 40,000. Do the math. They have lost their ‘Way’, anyone who is religious or studied martial arts will understand the price that comes at.
I grew up in the Great Southern of WA which is the area of the Noongar tribe. I have many close friends from kindy to the present day who are Noongar. These people have lost their lands as most of the area is farmed and they cannot go bush and practice traditional business as freely as the tribes up north and I have to say are likely the most troubled tribe in WA. I also have lived closely with the Martu people of the Pilbara and I currently live in the region of the Wangai people of the WA Goldfields and have in previous employment had much to do with them. I was shown and taught many things about tribal practices and law and secret womens business, which I was privileged to be let into but due to my honour I cannot share these things with you here. There is heaps more examples I can give about what they do to the houses but I wont on this post. Maybe if you like I will on the next post.

As a person I respect their culture immensely and it saddens me to see it being lost as the younger generations are torn between traditional life and the society of settlement and consumerism. The social problems they experience within their communities such as the child abuse and substance abuse is also beyond heartbreaking to watch or have knowledge of. These things stem from deep conflict within the soul. They are a side affect or symptom of the deep conflict within the soul. Any one who has betrayed themselves as a person or turned from their 'way' will understand that but imagine it so strong within your DNA that you’re not conscious of it.

One of my closest friends has been rebuilding community housing in remote areas like Cotton creek, Turkey creek, Jigalong etc for about 13 years and to answer your question Chad about why they live like that in the houses, its because they haven’t been taught to live in houses.
How you fold your towels in your own home may be the way your mum did and you have carried this to your home as learned behaviour without realising it, many Indigenous do not have ‘that kind’ of domestic traditions in that sense. Aboriginal adults die 25 years younger than white adults. Their parents parents didn’t have time to adjust really so there is only so much that can be passed on and much of it was confusion from the start as well as pain from displacement.

Im not saying all Indigenous Australians are the same in fact I have a friend whom is Indigenous and an Anthropologist and I will ask her some questions and get back you here.

Understanding and Tolerance and Faith that they don’t lose themselves is all we can do. I do not believe I am responsible for saying sorry as I was not there and I am in no way a racist to anyone, I come from a totally less than glamorous childhood full of all kinds of abuse and am in no way a victim of it and I believe individually we must be responsible for our own lives. I am also friends with my parents now as I would be a hypocrite if I carried bitterness considering how deeply I care for all humans and the world and hence I know all humans are capable of taking control of their soul and reactions.

Being Anti toward them or any culture in the bigger picture is not helping the world. Contributing to the negative energy is not the answer.

The political involvement is not the answer either. ATS members please…. As if we can trust the gov to work it out….pfft. Its out of our hands. The gov do deals with them to have mining tenements and the Indigenous do agree to those deals to get money in return. The gov don’t care for the culture they care for the Oz economy or more so their own pockets.

I know it may sound wishy washy airey fairy to some of you, but seriously you can only affect what is in your immediate life. (never EFF with things you cant control) And therefore what you put out should be moving forward in the most proactive and benevolent way for all involved. Energetically we can change the world but we need to make sure our intentions are honourable. Fundamentally that’s what its all about, everything.

Chad sharing your view is an awesome idea and thanks for thread, it did need to be discussed, those members you’ve reached and resonated with make it all worth it. It’s always unfortunate the negative close minded people that like to argue are always here on nearly every thread though.

I dont often write a lot here because of my ‘Way’ I live by. I know emotions are a choice and I know Im not obliged to have an opinion where as many do not even know this and thus I choose the perception that works with me also due my affinity with ‘feeling energy’ as such I run the risk of being misunderstood. But what I offer is freedom from making yourself feel bad about issues and affecting your life in the way that what you are will live on after you.

Have the best day
themuse



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 07:08 PM
link   
Hey Chadwickus, I respect you for saying what you beleive, knowing full well you'll be slated for it!!

I see it like this, rather oversimplified but anyway:

Yes the Aborigines got a bad deal
Yes they have problems that aren't entirely their fault
Yes they (in this case for example) should have had a house that was up to scratch
But none of these problems (socio-economic) can be blamed for not using the DAMN DOOR instead of boring a HOLE IN THE WALL

At some point, the Maori, Aboriginal, Native American....whatever....at some point they have to stop blaming the past, whites, the government, and stand up and make a change for themselves.

I feel for them, god we owe them so much, but they are still human beings, and if they aren't treated as such, at least they could ACT AS SUCH...

This is harsh but true.

Does this make me a racist....hell no...doesn't bother me what colour they are...same applies to WHITE LAYABOUT DRUGGIES...at some point they have to accept their responsibility and act like HUMAN beings....


GET A JOB.. FEED YOUR FAMILY...LOOK AFTER YOUR KIDS...MAKE THE MOST OF OUR LIFE...stop blaming the world...use the door not a hole in the wall.

If I offend anyone by saying this I don't apologise, it needs to be said.

Like I said, it makes no difference what colour, creed, race or religion you are, if you're a human being, show it by acting like one!!

All the best ATS, and my condolences to the family of this lad, his death is senseless, but hopefully may serve as a reminder to those who are happy to live like that.



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 07:30 PM
link   
I am very disappointed in this thread, as it was written by a fellow australian and a friend.



Is this the governments fault?
Is this mine the tax payers fault?

Or should these people drag themselves out of the stone age and act like human beings?

Call me racist if you must but it disgusts me that the children in these communities are being brought up in these conditions.

It is all the adults in these community's fault.



Its not about money
hand outs
tax payers fault
Nor who "owns the land"
You are judging them by white standards, of what is pleasant to your eye to see from a family.
How families should live according to globalised socialisation and moral codes.
Did they live like this for 60000 years?
Did they live in poverty?
NO

You don't see their repression over 200 years? You think that a GOVT handout ie western money, a social system they did not know is going to make it ok for dessimating them? You think that money is what they need? That they should have the CHristian moral code of Europe?
As a cultural group they have had the majority of their own social and moral codes completely decimated. WHat framework do they have left to exist it...Your version? Your idea of how society should exist?

They were shipped out to Blacktown for example where Australia's densest indigenous population resides...and how did this happen. Well until about 30 years ago the white people for 200 years had simply come onto the land, and kicked them off and didn't give a hoot about them so long as they were out of mind out of sight.
They were not permitted to maintain their culture, they had their children taken away from them in order to try and breed them out, and whiten them up.

So if aliens landed in Europe who havent had their culture thriving ( and in a sustainable and amazing social and ecological framework like our indigenous brethren had for 60000 years) and then shoved all of the locals onto semi arid land, took away their:
social beliefs
the moral codes
their homes
their children to be "raised": as PLaediens.
Tried to genocide them with a virus (like they did with cyphlis that killed them)
Make them drug and alcohol dependant so they become your "workers" on your land instead of simply living off the land, and killing your cattle. Yes the settlers worked out give em grog and they will stop hunting on your farms.
It would be ok if these white europeans turned to a post apolcolyptic lifestyle as they no longer knew what their identity was?
This is the exact same scenario, and if it happens, Im looking at you kid to see how well you'll cope with the new social and moral framework imposed upon you.

The stone age call, kinda made me nearly ill Chad, who are you to decide that the indigenous culture is stone age, rather than a complex society of clans.

I'm so regretful to do this, but CHAD



[edit on 24-3-2010 by zazzafrazz]



posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 07:42 PM
link   
reply to post by Damian-007
 

A close relative was involved in an Aboriginal education facility in north Western Australia in the 60's.

Aboriginal kids were trained to fulfil roles on cattle stations as 'Ringers', Fencers and Maids/Child Care...
...and most were employed to fill these roles that were in demand...
...subsequent generations of most of their kids are educated, socially engaged and gainfully employed.

I lived in a large northern Queensland city that has a 10% Aboriginal population...
...they were just like everyone else...
...kids went to the same schools, participated in the same events...
...I had a rental property next door to an Aboriginal family...
...and they took more care of their house/yard than my religious/white tenants.

I had the rare opportunity of visiting a small Aboriginal community in central NSW...
...the only social issues were a result of having nothing to do...
...when funds were available do stuff the community was 'tight'...
...they built a community hall...
...prepared a playing feild (track, fences, buildings)...
...built a chapel...
...during these times kids were well fed and dressed...
...but during the long days and nights of inactivity social issues emerged.

You can't just go to people and say 'you should be responsible'...
...responsibility and self-esteem and learned and earned...
...and built generation by generation.




posted on Mar, 24 2010 @ 07:52 PM
link   
reply to post by zazzafrazz
 


Zazzy, I understand all this, I really do but it doesn't change how I feel about it.

What you are saying is all true, the things the white man did to the aboriginals was truly terrible. But this is also the crux of the problem, they are still stuck in the past, blaming events that happened a hundred years ago for their short falls today, blaming the government for living in third world conditions that they themselves created, blaming people like me who didn't get given a home, an education and a trade. I worked hard for these things, I'm still working hard to keep these things.

This is where you'll say that these things are Western materialistic wants.

So what does an aboriginal person want?

What would you suggest we do?

Because what's being done now, it aint working





new topics
top topics
 
31
<< 2  3  4    6  7  8 >>

log in

join