Opinions Turn Favorable On Health Care Plan

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by pavil

 

You make a great point. This bill and the way that it was created and passed will certainly guarantee that there will be NO bipartisan cooperation for as long as Obama is in office. He drew a line in the sand that is far to great to cross.

I will expect some serious mudslinging in the months and years to come.

That's not entirely true. Many moderate Republicans are starting to budge on issues so they can work with the majority and actually have some input on legislation. For reference, look at Brown breaking ranks and voting for the jobs bill, and the finance committee moving legislation from committee to the full Senate.

I think they are realizing that despite the desire to block Obama at every turn, the critical independents in moderate/swing states want to see legislative progress and not just obstruction. What kind of re-election platform are you going to run on when the last 4 years you haven't done squat but vote against legislation?

Especially when that legislation includes provisions for higher education, expanded coverage for kids, funding for jobs, etc. By simply being obstructionist they are setting themselves up for an extremely difficult, negative election season.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I think I am reading the same sources that you are however I fail to see a detail on these so called republican provisions. They are clearly not significant to this bill because they garnered no Republican votes. All major Republican concepts and ideas were ignored.

Just Pelosi Fluff talk.

Originally posted by jibeho
I think I am reading the same sources that you are however I fail to see a detail on these so called republican provisions.

I don't have time to research it now. I will do so later. I could be wrong, but this was my understanding.

They are clearly not significant to this bill because they garnered no Republican votes.

Please tell me you're not serious. Republicans were BOUND AND DETERMINED to prevent ANY health care reform from passing because they don't want Obama to have a major success like this under his belt going into November. This is a Republican nightmare. Republicans were NEVER going to give ONE vote to this bill regardless what was in it. Because it was "Obama's bill".

I will have to do that research later. Sorry.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Please tell me you're not serious. Republicans were BOUND AND DETERMINED to prevent ANY health care reform from passing because they don't want Obama to have a major success like this under his belt going into November. This is a Republican nightmare. Republicans were NEVER going to give ONE vote to this bill regardless what was in it. Because it was "Obama's bill".

What about the GOP amendments that were all rejected by the Dems? Sure, some of them were BS amendments, but you can't be saying that every, single one was bad.

Originally posted by jerico65
What about the GOP amendments that were all rejected by the Dems? Sure, some of them were BS amendments, but you can't be saying that every, single one was bad.

The GOP made the decision NOT to go for those amendments.

Source

Senate Republicans have backed away from a plan to offer hundreds of amendments to slow the passage of healthcare reform fixes under budget reconciliation.
...
But GOP lawmakers have decided not to employ the dilatory tactic and instead call for votes on substantive amendments.

“We’ve decided that offering 200 or 300 amendments doesn’t make sense,” said Sen. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.), one of the Senate’s leading conservatives. “The leadership has asked us to focus on substantive amendments.”

All of a sudden, they're acting human again. Scary!

As regards the other issue, I can't find where the Republican input into the bill is enumerated. I don't think I've ever seen that. I've just seen that many Republican ideas were incorporated into the bill. Pelosi said 200. I don't know how many it actually is.

Grassley Admits Republican Input in HCR

“This bill, except for the five to 10 things that weren’t resolved, has been put together with some Republican input,” Grassley said.

Here are Six Republican Ideas in the Bill

The WaPo’s Ezra Klein has a rundown of the six GOP ideas adopted into the Senate bill, including a proposal that would allow health insurance companies to sell across state lines:

At this point, I don’t think it’s well understood how many of the GOP’s central health-care policy ideas have already been included as compromises in the health-care bill. But one good way is to look at the GOP’s “Solutions for America” homepage, which lays out its health-care plan in some detail. It has four planks. All of them — yes, you read that right — are in the Senate health-care bill.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thanks, but I meant the 41 that were voted down by the Dems in this source. I couldn't find the source when I first posted.

news.yahoo.com...

"Other rejected amendments would have rolled back cuts in Medicare that Democrats use for expanded health coverage, and would have required the president and other administration officials to buy health policies from new insurance purchasing exchanges the law will establish."

You just know that no one in Congress, Rep or Dem, would give up their solid gold healthcare plan.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Still the main issue and most important of all in the bill is not and never was a any means to regulate private insurance premiums.

Now by mandate they own our butts and under mandate we will be paying for their goods be crappy or not.

Now tell me, do you think that is a good idea and a victory for the people and anybody in the congress whores been thinking about the people?

I will answer that one, no.



[edit on 25-3-2010 by marg6043]

Originally posted by jerico65
What about the GOP amendments that were all rejected by the Dems? Sure, some of them were BS amendments, but you can't be saying that every, single one was bad.

Sorry, you know not of what you assert:

Republican Obstructionism at it's finest:

Republican Sen. Mike Enzi refuses to allow approval of 64 Republican amendments in an attempt to obstruct the process, HELP Committee Health Care Bill

This is a revealing moment from Monday's markup of the health care bill in the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee that illustrates the level of procedural obstruction Senate Republicans are willing to rise to in order to impede its progress and in the hopes of killing its momentum.

Source

They refused to vote on their very own amendments which were ACCEPTED by the Deomcrats. Boggles the mind.

EDIT TO ADD: Disclaimer, this was during to lead up to the vote, not the final main vote itself. Regardless, it illustrates why the Republicans are rightfully called "The Party of No."

C-SPAN is a worthy source, No? You were saying?



[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by jerico65


Look, I really don't get your point. 100% of Republicans voted against a bill into which they had input by way of several (at least) provisions. They voted 100% against it. And you're asking me why the Democrats voted against the Republicans trying to make additional changes to the bill?

The answer is: I don't know.

I'm not saying anything about those amendments because I don't even know what they were, but I can't speak for Congress. I actually think they're mostly a bunch of self-serving crooks. But if you want to know why the amendments got voted down, you're asking the wrong person. Sorry.

Edit: Thank you, kk. As I said earlier, I'm genuinely confused. By the looks of that video, it seems I'm not the only one.

[edit on 3/25/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
They refused to vote on their very own amendments which were ACCEPTED by the Deomcrats.

Who knows? Maybe they figured that their few amendments weren't going to make any difference when it comes to this trainwreck? They'd rather see the whole things kicked to the curb than to see it pass?

All I'm seeing is partisan politics. The Dems can add anything in the bill, and they know their fellow Dems will vote for it.

The Reps will vote it down, regardless if it's good or not.

I'm all for healthcare reform, but I don't think this pork-filled bill is the answer.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The amendments were voted down because even before the reconciliation was passed, Obama said that they will not allow any amendments to the bill.

Nobody in congress gives a crap about what the people actually wanted in the health care reform.

reply to post by marg6043


Hi sweetie! Watch that video.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Look, I really don't get your point. 100% of Republicans voted against a bill into which they had input by way of several (at least) provisions. They voted 100% against it. And you're asking me why the Democrats voted against the Republicans trying to make additional changes to the bill?

The answer is: I don't know.

Me either. All I'm saying is what I said to KK. It's just partisan politics in action.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I actually think they're mostly a bunch of self-serving crooks.

Well, you're wrong about that. They are ALL a bunch of self-serving crooks.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Opinions Turn Favorable On Health Care Plan

So people are now in favor of Obamageddon. BUt wait a damn minute....I thought the majority of people were defiantly opposed to this monstrosity of a bill!!!

Now certain people will no longer be able to use that argument that the majority of the people were ignored!!

Anyway...thanks for sharing BH.

I figured this would happen....just not so soon. People woke up the next day and realized the world didn't end.

I guess when 22 percent of registered Republicans believe Obama is the anti-christ...you're bound to have some worried out there....

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Sorry BH but I am sick of propaganda, Republicans did what they did with amendments to get back to the democrats for keeping them away from the private insurance give away.

All the issues worked at day in and day out in congress in the past 3 days will be used for political gain, Obama and the Democratic congress will lose the elections.

Right most of the military vets in America are angry at the HCR and Obama, because the government run health care humana faces elimination meaning higher premiums for the vets.

My husband is one of them, we have been getting all the e-mails from veterans groups that already have dissected the Obama bill and the proposed legislation to eliminate humana for retirees and force us into whatever the private insurance wants to offer.

No, good for Military retirees at all.

Originally posted by jerico65
All I'm saying is what I said to KK. It's just partisan politics in action.

What else could you say if you were squarely proven wrong? You asked for proof, I obliged. How was the Democrats ACCEPTING every Amendment partisan? You say the Amendments were meaningless, then I ask why were they drafted? It was a bluff and they got called on it. So who was "more" partisan?

Dude face it, you got pwned.


[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
What else could you say if you were squarely proven wrong? You asked for proof, I obliged. How was the Democrats ACCEPTING every Amendment partisan? You say the Amendments were meaningless, then I ask why were they drafted? It was a bluff and they got called on it. So who was "more" partisan?

I don't recall asking for proof. All I did was bring up something that I read. It said that the amendments that were just brought up in the past day or so were all rejected by the Dems.

I said some were BS amendments, like the one about Obama and Congress having to enroll in this healthcare plan. No way in hell they are going to give up what they have for this POS plan.

Since it didn't list all of them, some of them might have been pretty decent and the Dems just pissed them away. Who knows?

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Dude face it, you got pwned.

Yeah, whatever. Like I really give a sh!t.

Originally posted by jerico65

I don't recall asking for proof. All I did was bring up something that I read.

Sorry I must have failed to interpret the meaning of your question mark:

Originally posted by jerico65
What about the GOP amendments that were all rejected by the Dems?

Forgive me, I read that as a request for data which is why I researched
and found that they weren't all rejected. You know a search for the truth?

Ooopppppsss. Must have been an informal fallacy like Do you still beat your wife?

Push polling is a technique used by political hacks to communicate a message (usually a distortion or even out right lie) in the form of a question or poll.

cotegauche.blogspot.com...

Yeah.....whatever indeed.



[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by jibeho
Reform should have been handled on a smaller scale one step at a time.
Tort reform

Tort reform is a red herring. There are frivolous lawsuits filed, but that's what judges and juries are for. State Bar associations keep track too. An attorney can be kicked out for filing BS lawsuits. In the overall scheme of things, it's a small problem, lawsuits only amount to a few % of money in the health care system. You limit people's ability to seek redress for wrongs, and no good will come of it.

Texas recently passed a law capping malpractice settlements to 250k.
So if a doctor screws up and kills you, your family or estate can only get 250k. Many terrible doctors that have been sued repeatedly move to Texas to practice since the most they can be sued for is 250k, so the malpractice insurance is cheap.

Did you hear about that GI who went under the knife for routine gall bladder surgery and woke up with both his legs amputated ? They nicked some arteries and had complications and one thing led to another.
cbs2.com...

He can't sue anyways because it's the military, but stuff like that does happen in the civilian world too. Does that sound like a fair settlement ? 250k for both your legs ?

How can anyone place a cap on malpractice awards before someone has brought a case before a judge ?

Bad decisions are always appealed anyways. I don't care if once in a while some corp gets taken for a ride. It's better than the alternative of arbitrarily limiting awards for damages.

IMO any tort reform bill will end up severely hurting consumers. If they know their maximum liability is low, they will bend workplace safety and consumer protections. Product liability keeps consumer safety as a top priority.

I doubt most car manufacturers would care about problems, if they weren't getting sued for millions each time one of their vehicles killed someone. Remeber Fight Club ? If it costs more to do a recall than what it will cost to pay lawsuits, it doesn't happen. Now that might be fictional, but I guarantee that type of thinking goes on at huge multinational corps.



[edit on 25-3-2010 by Schaden]

Originally posted by David9176
So people are now in favor of Obamageddon.

I hadn't heard that one.

I figured this would happen....just not so soon. People woke up the next day and realized the world didn't end.

You know, as strange as it sounds, I think that has some truth to it. That and the whole idea that it's popular to bitch about the government, whether you understand what's going on or not. Then there's the fear that's being pushed FULL FORCE by the right.

As you know, I watch both left and right "entertainnews" and after I watch FOX for a while, even I start to get scared! I have to turn it off and come to the computer and do research on the stuff I heard on FOX to get the real scoop. It's crazy to think that many Americans are thinking they're getting the news when watching that.

But it's no wonder the polls have turned around and flip-flopped several times in the past few days.