Opinions Turn Favorable On Health Care Plan

This is clearly a self serving poll on the Media's part.

If opinions are so favorable why all the death threats? ...many of which we have never seen the likes of before.

reply to post by kinda kurious


To define the INTENT of one of my posts as being Vulgar is a matter of Opinion . As for the implication that I " Narked " Mr. JR Out is also a matter of Opinion . Do you see a pattern developing here ? .........Hmm..

Originally posted by Zanti Misfit
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

To define the INTENT of one of my posts as being Vulgar is a matter of Opinion . As for the implication that I " Narked " Mr. JR Out is also a matter of Opinion . Do you see a pattern developing here ? .........Hmm..

That you know how to back-peddle?

Inferring someone's opinion is analagous to an "a" hole as you put it = vulgar in my book.

Regarding turning in another poster whose opinion you don't like.

You'll need to forfeit your Jr. Mod badge.


[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious] edits to tidy up

[edit on 25-3-2010 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


" To be great is to be misunderstood. Whatever course you decide upon, there is always someone to tell you that you are wrong. There are always difficulties arising which tempt you to believe that your critics are right. To map out a course of action and follow it to an end requires courage.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson "


I am Not backpeddling , just trying to be Couragous in the face of confrontation .

Originally posted by Alxandro
If opinions are so favorable why all the death threats? ...many of which we have never seen the likes of before.

Because about 25% of the population gets all their news info from Fox and they implicitly trust Hannity or Beck when they compare it to Soviet style communism.

Never seen it before ? I guess you don't remember the civil rights battles in the 1960s. This "outrage" is overblown. Most of them are reactionary, they don't possess enough knowledge to have an informed opinion. Go ahead and call me elitist, but I don't put a lot of credance into public opinion polls. I know it's scientifically valid, I'm saying I don't care about someone's opinion that likely hasn't spent 10 minutes of their own time to become informed.

Just for giggles, I'd love to see what percentage of people vehemently against the health care bill, believe Pres Obama is an illegal alien and an illegitimate president.

Originally posted by Alxandro
If opinions are so favorable why all the death threats? ...many of which we have never seen the likes of before.

How many death threats? 10? Do you realize what a small number that is compared to the people who are involved in the health care debate?

Never seen the likes of before??? You must be kidding. Or you must be young. Have you read history? Does the civil rights era mean anything to you? JFK? This is nothing compared to the 50s and 60s.

I agree that the opinion polls mean nothing and I have said so several times in this thread, but just because some nut-jobs are making death threats doesn't mean that HCR is unpopular.

Oops. I should have read Schaden's post before I posted.



[edit on 3/25/2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
How many death threats? 10? Do you realize what a small number that is compared to the people who are involved in the health care debate?

I agree, but do you see the Dems taking this and running with it? "They're crazy and violent!!"

reply to post by jerico65


Yes, I do. Absolutely. On the other hand, I think it needs to be nipped in the bud before it gains momentum and goes further. So, it's kind of good that they're making a big deal about it. It's bringing the lawmakers out of the woodwork to say something about it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You're right. Bricks thru glass doors aren't going to solve things.

But a raw egg thrown properly? Now we're talking!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I agree that the opinion polls mean nothing and I have said so several times in this thread, but just because some nut-jobs are making death threats doesn't mean that HCR is unpopular.

I think the polls show a general emotional response.

I think it shows from a personal emotional point - - about a 50/50 split between those who support National Healthcare and those who don't.

It is very unlikely those polled were/are fully or even partly knowledgeable of what was actually passed.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I agree that the opinion polls mean nothing and I have said so several times in this thread, but just because some nut-jobs are making death threats doesn't mean that HCR is unpopular.

I think the polls show a general emotional response.

I think it shows from a personal emotional point - - about a 50/50 split between those who support National Healthcare and those who don't.

It is very unlikely those polled were/are fully or even partly knowledgeable of what was actually passed.

So tell us who is even PARTLY knowledgable of what this bill contains?

Nancy Pelosi herself said, "We have to pass the bill so we can find out what is in it."

How irresponsible is that, coming from not only a Representative, but the House Majority Leader???

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Since no one still has an idea of what is in the bill, and few have still read it, I have to assume the only reason anyone has turned a favorable eye to this:
the drama of the fight is over
the uncertainty has been removed.

Wait until taxpayers find out how much more they will be paying in taxes and premiums.

With so little new information available, I see no reason for the upturn.

If no one knows what is in the bill how do you know the impact it will have on taxes and premiums?

I'm not saying the end product will be perfect but any reform is better than none.

Newsflash! Insurance premiums have been going up every year with the current system.

I would also like to note that the opponents to health care reform have regularly been using the argument that the American people are against this bill, their evidence being polls. So why would a poll showing opposition a week ago be valid and this one showing a growing support be false?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by lee anoma
Anyone looking to these bozos for direction will be in a frenzied panic without even reading paragraph one.

That's what the bozos are counting on. When they get up there and start talking about the tax burden on "America", they're talking about their own income bracket, but they don't say that. They let the guy who makes $40K think his taxes are going up. They're trying to pass off to the American people that THEY will be the ones paying for this, when in reality, it's the bozos, themselves and the others who are making $500K+ whose taxes are going to go up.

That's why I keep saying that Americans are outraged because they are TOLD by the pundits to be outraged. They believe what Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity are passing off to them. It's really sad...

You make excellent points. I have mentioned this in other threads but it bears repeating, as I think many americans are unaware of the wealth inequality in this country.

90% of the population makes under $100k/year
50% of the population makes under $50k/year


9 out of 10 American will NEVER make it into the top 10%!

Only 1.5% of the population make over $250k per year.

We are raised to believe that we all have an equal chance to become a millionaire or part of the wealthy class but the vast majority of the population never even comes close. And those that are in that top 5-1% do whatever they can to stay in that top bracket. And at the same time they try to convince people that they too have a chance to be that rich. When reality shows a completely different story.

The people who tell the average american that their taxes are going to go up are flat out lying.

This is the same BS that went around when everyone was talking about the Estate(death) tax. They implied that we all get our estates taxed when we die but in reality it was the super rich that were taxed and any estate under, I believe $250k(1.5% of the population) was exempt from this tax.

Yet somehow many were convinced that the death tax affected everyone.

The lack of understanding in this country amazes me on a daily basis.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
We are raised to believe that we all have an equal chance to become a millionaire or part of the wealthy class but the vast majority of the population never even comes close. And those that are in that top 5-1% do whatever they can to stay in that top bracket. And at the same time they try to convince people that they too have a chance to be that rich. When reality shows a completely different story.

That is known as the Horatio Alger myth.

Originally posted by iamcamouflageThis is the same BS that went around when everyone was talking about the Estate(death) tax. They implied that we all get our estates taxed when we die but in reality it was the super rich that were taxed and any estate under, I believe $250k(1.5% of the population) was exempt from this tax.

It's the plutocracy protecting itself. Wealth hasn't been so concentrated since the roaring 1920s. I don't even think it's 250k. I think your net worth has to be well into the million dollar range before the estate tax applies. But yeah, Joe Blow thinks it applies to him.

Same with the health care bill. I see all these people stating matter of factly how their taxes are going to sky rocket. When everything I've read indicates the vast majority of the middle and lower classes will get tax breaks or outright subsidies to buy insurance.


[edit on 25-3-2010 by Schaden]

reply to post by Schaden


Thank you for the input. And with regards to the estate tax, I couldnt remember the exact number and was too lazy to look it up but I knew it was outside of the income range for the vast majority of the population.

Health care reform is an issue that we as Americans should be more than happy to pay for. I currently have employer health care and I take really good care of myself. I'm aware that my taxes will not go up due to my low income but I would be more than willing to pay a small percentage more to help those even less fortunate than me.

I am far from rich but there are people, many families worse off than me. And I am more than willing to offer some of what i have to benefit others.

I am always at a loss when seeing the poor defend the rich, under the assumption that one day they will be in their shoes. Growing up my parents would refer to people like this as, "too poor to be a Republican". There is a serious mis-communication when you have someone in a trailer house, worried about the DEATH TAX(scary voice)

If you are not in the top 5% by the age of 30, you will most likely never get there.

Thems the facts


EDIT: Schaden, you should read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. He discusses the importance of when and where we are born with regards to success. Great book, great author.


[edit on 26-3-2010 by iamcamouflage]

Well I don't know tons about the bill...but I DO KNOW THIS...

BUsinesses with with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits this year covering 35 percent of health care premiums...increased to 50 percent in 2014.

That will certainly help maintain health care premiums...and possibly provide BETTER health care insurance for people...or at the least lower/maintain costs.

I'm just tired of people stating that nothing happens till 2014...IT'S A LIE!

If you see someone stating this...set them straight.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
How many death threats? 10? Do you realize what a small number that is compared to the people who are involved in the health care debate?

I agree, but do you see the Dems taking this and running with it? "They're crazy and violent!!"

I think this type of thing should be discussed. I would never make the generalization that ALL Republicans are crazy and violent because of a few extremists. But the Republicans made Obama and this health care reform out to be much worse than it is in reality. They implied it was the end of our country, that we were becoming socialist, fascist, moaist, etc

They told their constituents that the sky was falling and encouraged them to take action. Rush, Beck and all of the other talking heads scared the crap out of people and convinced them that Obama and this bill would almost certainly bring the end of the world.

And when some of these people take their claims seriously and decide the only action is violence. Now the Republicans want to distance themselves and imply that the Democrats are using it as a political grandstand.

The Republicans and right talking heads asked for this type of action from their constituents and now they got it. The Republicans have cried wolf on a relatively small issue(health care reform) and I wonder what they will do if there is something truly important that needs the attention of the people?

I do not condone violence of any kind towards anyone. The behavior of some is a huge over reaction.

I find it humorous and depressing that many of the tea party members who are now fighting for freedom and small govt., sat on their hands for a decade while the previous admin racked up huge deficits on credit, took many of our constitutional rights with the patriot act and wire tapped our phones without warrants. Where were these patriots when the real battles were being fought? Now they want to express all their constitutional rights over health care reform????? Seriously??????

And many of these people that I personally know, were huge Bush supporters at the time and now they say things like, "both sides are corrupt", "I didnt like everything Bush did when in office", "I'm an independent" etc. Yet they voted for him twice and called me a terrorist when I would protest or criticize anything his admin did.


Apologies for being off topic, I will say no more on this subject.


Back to the 5th horsemen who we shall call HEALTH CARE!!!

[edit on 26-3-2010 by iamcamouflage]

Ha. 55% want the bill repealed as per Rasmussen (#1 pollster in 2008 pres election); 49% favor the bill as per Gallup (#17 pollster in 2008 prez election). Does not compute.

Wait, actually it does. Gallup just manipulates their sample size and gets whatever result they want.

If that wasn't clear, Gallup is a push poller (i.e. propagandist) that generate the reults TPTB want. The Gallup brand is 60+ years old, plenty of time for co-opting. Just like a Harvard grad has the impicit guarantee of 'intelligence,' although the individual holding the degree is most likely a trust fund sociopath (cf. the US government).

reply to post by David9176

BUsinesses with with fewer than 50 employees will get tax credits this year covering 35 percent of health care premiums...increased to 50 percent in 2014.

That will certainly help maintain health care premiums...and possibly provide BETTER health care insurance for people...or at the least lower/maintain costs.

This may work if the businesses actually pass on the savings to their workers. That is extremely rare. Any padding to the bottom line will be kept as such.

I'll get to the camo guy's statements in a minute
ten trillion more in debt