Health Care Bill: SEC. 1555. Freedom Not To Participate In Federal Health Insurance Programs.

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posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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The way I'm reading it, it's saying that if a company is offering insurance to its employees, the insurance doesn't have to be the federal type.

So it still seems to require folks have health insurance, but we can opt out of the Big Brother option so long as we have insurance with a private company.




posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by 911stinks
 


Section 1555 only refers to any "Federal health insurance program", which doesn't exist because they stripped out the public option, it does not mention any private insurance plans. This is just a left over from when the public option was still in the bill and does nothing to stop them from requiring you to have minimum acceptable health insurance.

Section 5000a mentions the requirement to have acceptable minimum health insurance.




HR 3590
1 ‘‘(b) SHARED RESPONSIBILITY PAYMENT.—
2 ‘‘(1) IN GENERAL.—If an applicable individual
3 fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1
4 or more months during any calendar year beginning
5 after 2013, then, except as provided in subsection (d),
6 there is hereby imposed a penalty with respect to the
7 individual in the amount determined under sub8
section (c).



[edit on 23-3-2010 by BlackJackal]



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Good call, yes it states no mandatory Federal Insurance program.

Of course if the Federal Insurance program is cheaper than private, subsidized by taxes, I wonder what people would do?

Yes, this bill may not set up a Federal Insurance program, but why would it, there already IS ONE.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


Google Form 8889. Part III--Income and Additional Tax for Failure to Maintain HDHP Coverage. You must be covered unless you die or become disabled.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Thanks for clarifying my post. It is truly scary that peoples reading comprehension's are so lacking. Here it is dumbed down for the masses:

If you start your own insurance company, you don't have to use Federal Program.
If you dont own your own insurance company, you have to buy insurance or they are gonna take out more taxes outta your paycheck at the end of the year. That refund you count on at the end of the year is gonna go bye-bye! If you don't pay that tax at the end of the year, the Tax man is gonna come after you and take your home, your car, seize your bank account, garnish your wages and tack on interest and penalties. Get it yet people? Those that haven't got it yet are either brainwashed or just trolls.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by ohioriver
 


Thay are doing it NOW! It's in the 2009 tax return. Form 8889.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by darkelf
 


Yes, sadly I know.

I weep for America.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:21 AM
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reply to post by darkelf
 


I believe you're misinterpreting that. Form 8889 only applies to those enrolled in an HSA (Health Savings Account). Which isn't mandatory.

Once you enroll, you have to maintain it or pay a penalty because the HSA has disbursable funds which are taxable since they're deposited pre tax.

You can't park money tax-free in an HSA then not maintain it (cancel it, i.e. "fail to remain eligible") and then take the money without being taxed on it.

That's a whole different thing.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by ohioriver
reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Thanks for clarifying my post. It is truly scary that peoples reading comprehension's are so lacking. Here it is dumbed down for the masses:



The interpretation needs to be clarified. It could be important to the people who find this bill offensive and Big Brother like.



No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health


Individual, company, business, nonprofit entity = one group
Health insurance issuer offering insurance = another group

Could be argued in court for sure.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:31 AM
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If I may - as a foreigner - interpret the above text of legislation 1555 ?

You should read :

1. no individual
2. no company
3. no business
4. no non-profit entity
5. (n)or health insurance issuer offering group or individual health
insurance coverage

shall be required to participate ...

You should maybe not read :

1. no individual offering group or...
2. no company offering group or...

etc.

I am glad to straighten your problems out.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by Udo Hohnekamp Lux.


shall be required to participate ...



Don't stop there. Let's continue-


...in any Federal health insurance program created under this Act...


There.

If a Federal health insurance program is created under the Act, you don't have to participate in that one. But you are required to have insurance under the Act.

[Edit for BB code]

[edit on 3/23/2010 by yeahright]



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by 911stinks
 


No further interpretation needed it is clear what it says.



16 SEC. 1555. FREEDOM NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN FEDERAL
17 HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAMS.
18 No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or
19 health insurance issuer offering group or individual health
20 insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any
21 Federal health insurance program created under this Act
22 (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal
23 health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any
24 such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine


The key words are "freedom not to participate in federal health insurance programs." Where is my freedom to not participate in private or public health insurance programs?



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by darkelf
 


I believe you're misinterpreting that. Form 8889 only applies to those enrolled in an HSA (Health Savings Account). Which isn't mandatory.

Once you enroll, you have to maintain it or pay a penalty because the HSA has disbursable funds which are taxable since they're deposited pre tax.

You can't park money tax-free in an HSA then not maintain it (cancel it, i.e. "fail to remain eligible") and then take the money without being taxed on it.

That's a whole different thing.


Actually, I believe that HSAs are the blueprint of how the IRS is going to get involved with insurance coverage.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by harvib
reply to post by 911stinks
 


No further interpretation needed it is clear what it says.



16 SEC. 1555. FREEDOM NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN FEDERAL
17 HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAMS.
18 No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or
19 health insurance issuer offering group or individual health
20 insurance coverage shall be required to participate in any
21 Federal health insurance program created under this Act
22 (or any amendments made by this Act), or in any Federal
23 health insurance program expanded by this Act (or any
24 such amendments), and there shall be no penalty or fine


The key words are "freedom not to participate in federal health insurance programs." Where is my freedom to not participate in private or public health insurance programs?


Due to this bill, all private and public health care industries will be part of the Federal Program, therefore it could be construed that any health care is part of the Federal Program.

I show a possible loop-hole for the good guys, and I get lambasted. WTF?



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by 911stinks
 


You might have a point. Does it define "federal health programs" in the bill?



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by 911stinks
 


I looked through every section of the bill that had definitions in it as well as referring to section 2791 of the Public Health Service Act as sec 1551 refers you to. I couldn't find anything that defines a "federal health insurance program" or even "health insurance program" for that matter. There has to be a definition some where. Maybe someone can find it.

BTW S&F for your efforts.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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From the looks of it, it just might be cheaper to pay the fines over the cost of having insurance! I don't think any one really knows or understands whatever is in this "package."

[edit on 23-3-2010 by savageheart]



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 03:29 PM
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reply to post by ohioriver
 


I read it the same way as you:

"18 No individual, company, business, nonprofit entity, or
19 health insurance issuer offering group or individual health
20 insurance coverage
"

Sounds to me it is exempting individuals, companies, businesses, etc that OFFER insurance.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by 911stinks
 


Ooooh, I never even thought of that angle. Alright, any corporation license or incorporated in the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA could be considered to be a Federal Entity.

If you are licensed to operate, you are therefore under the control of the Federal Government.

You know, this is why I hate the frelling laws in the modern world. Something can be completely different than standard language.

Sorry OP, for my earlier comments.

Just another rabbit hole to peruse.



posted on Mar, 23 2010 @ 09:16 PM
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Just so everyone knows this is what is in the Historic Health Care Bill, look at the actual Reform Bill. It's all in there I checked it myself.

Shock to NBC this morning.
Please do read what the HealthCare Bill MANDATES!
This letter appeared in the Indianapolis Star (which is owned by the same people who own the Arizona Republic ) and was sent to a very popular Indiana Senator. This just goes to show everyone what pressure these Democrats are currently under, so continue to let them know how you feel about the healthcare bill.
Bill Stough

Shock to NBC This morning.


An Indianapolis doctor's letter to Sen. Bayh about the Bill (Note: Dr. Stephen E. Fraser, MD practices as an anesthesiologist in Indianapolis , IN ) Here is a letter I sent to Senator Bayh.. Feel free to copy it and send it around to all other representatives. -- Stephen Fraser

Senator Bayh,

As a practicing physician I have major concerns with the health care bill before Congress. I actually have read the bill and am shocked by the brazenness of the government's proposed involvement in the patient-physician relationship. The very idea that the government will dictate and ration patient care is dangerous and certainly not helpful in designing a health care system that works for all. Every physician I work with agrees that we need to fix our health care system, but the proposed bills currently making their way through congress will be a disaster if passed.

I ask you respectfully and as a patriotic American to look at the following troubling lines that I have read in the bill. You cannot possibly believe that these proposals are in the best interests of the country and our fellow citizens.

Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self-insure!!

Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill: THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!

Page 42 of HC Bill: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC benefits for you. You have no choice!

Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances & a 'National ID Health card' will be issued! (Papers please!)

Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to your bank accounts for elective funds transfer. (Time for more cash and carry)

Page 65 Sec 164: Is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the 'Exchange.'

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans -- The Govt will ration your health care!

Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. (Translation: illegal aliens.)

Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups (i.e. ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. (AARP members - your health care WILL be rationed!)
Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (No choice.)

Page 12 4 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly.

Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what salary you can make.

Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. (NO choice!)

Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part-time employees AND their families. (Employees shouldn't get excited about this as employers will be forced to reduce its work force, benefits, and wages/salaries to cover such a huge expense.)

Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option will pay 8% tax on all payroll! (See the last comment in parenthesis.)
Page 150 Lines 9-13: A business with payroll between $251K & $401K who doesn't provide public option will pay 2-6% tax on all payroll.

Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.) (Like always)

Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of the GOVT HC Admin.. will have access to ALL Americans' finances and personal records. (I guess so they can 'deduct' their fees)

Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." (Yes, it really says that!) ( a 'fee' instead)
Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors. (Low-income and the poor are affected.)

Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)

Page 253 Line 10-18: The Govt sets the value of a doctor's time, profession, judgment, etc. (Literally-- the value of humans.)

Page 265 Sec 1131: The Govt mandates and controls productivity for "private" HC industries.

Page 268 Sec 1141: The federal Govt regulates the rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever the Govt deems preventable (i.e...re-admissions).

Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors: If you treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -- the Govt will penalize you.

Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. (The Govt tells doctors what and how much they can own!)

Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion. (The Govt is mandating that hospitals cannot expand.)
Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have the opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. (Can you say ACORN?)

Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: The Govt mandates establishment of 2 outcome-based measures. (HC the way they want -- rationing.)
Page 341 Lines 3-9: The Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. (Forcing people into the Govt plan)

Page 354 Sec 1177: The Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of 'special needs people!' Unbelievable!

Page 379 Sec 1191: The Govt creates more bureaucracy via a "Tele-Health Advisory Committee." (Can you say HC by phone?)

Page 425 Lines 4-12: The Govt mandates "Advance-Care Planning Consult." (Think senior citizens end-of-life patients.)

Page 425 Lines 17-19: The Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. (And it's mandatory!)
Page 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3: The Govt provides an "approved" list of end-of-life resources; guiding you in death. (Also called 'assisted suicide.')(Sounds like Soylent Green to me.)

Page 427 Lines 15-24: The Govt mandates a program for orders on "end-of-life." (The Govt has a say in how your life ends!)

Page 429 Lines 1-9: An "advanced-care planning consultant" will be used frequently as a patient's health deteriorates.

Page 429 Lines 10-12: An "advanced care consultation" may include an ORDER for end-of-life plans.. (AN ORDER TO DIE FROM THE GOVERNMENT?!?)

Page 429 Lines 13-25: The GOVT will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.. (I wouldn't want to stand before God after getting paid for THAT job!)

Page 430 Lines 11-15: The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end-of-life! (Again -- no choice!)

Page 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services = Non-Profit Organizations. (Hello? ACORN Medical Services here!?!)

Page 489 Sec 1308: The Govt will cover marriage and family therapy. (Which means Govt will insert itself into your marriage even.)

Page 494-498: Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.


Senator, I guarantee that I personally will do everything possible to inform patients and my fellow physicians about the dangers of the proposed bills you and your colleagues are debating.

Furthermore, if you vote for a bill that enforces socialized medicine on the country and destroys the doctor-patient relationship, I will do everything in my power to make sure you lose your job in the next election.

Respectfully,

Stephen E. Fraser, MD

Dear Reader,

I urge you to use the power that you were born with (and the power that may soon be taken away) and circulate this email to as many people as you can reach. The Power of the People can stop this from happening to us, our parents, our grandparents, our children, and to following generations





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