The Great Lie is John 3:16

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Gwynniver

 

Oh, and by the way, you STILL haven't answered my question: if God is all knowing and he created us, he knew we would screw up. And still he created us. So, tell me, doesn't that make him responsible?

I think it works on the same principles of quantum physics, multiple timelines. all potential timelines are viewable, but the choices you may or may not make on any one of those timelines, is the unknown factor. this we call free will. michio kaku explains the timeline concept (not from a religious standpoint, however):

[edit on 22-3-2010 by undo]

Slider experience...Peace







[edit on 22-3-2010 by letthereaderunderstand]

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by Gwynniver

Bottom line - stop blaming God for mankind's evil choices.

I think that is quite impossible, because god created mankind. He is supposedly all-knowing, so he knew from scratch what we would be like. Yet he created us so he is definitely responsible for the misery of this world. He knew beforehand who would do what, so 1.) he created evil and 2.)there is no such thing as free will, because it was determined from day one what would happen. If god wouldn know that all, how can he be all-knowing
If you actually really believe in this god and what he says is true, then face up to the fact that he is indeed responsible.

God created mankind perfect - it was satan who approached Adam and Eve in the Garden and tempted them - which led to sin. From that point on, mankind was born into sin - we are, by and at birth, sinners separated from God. Enter Jesus Christ, who was sent as our only way out to avoid eternal damnation. IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, we escape eternal hell.

Again, it depends on us to make the right choice.

I have never understood this concept. If Adam and Eve’s choices resulted in me being a “sinner” before I was born then how exactly do I have free will??

And except what I say as the only truth and give your allegiance to me or burn in hell for eternity! Hail Ceza……..um….In Jesus name, amen………..

Originally posted by liveandletlive

Originally posted by nomorecruelty

Originally posted by Gwynniver

Bottom line - stop blaming God for mankind's evil choices.

I think that is quite impossible, because god created mankind. He is supposedly all-knowing, so he knew from scratch what we would be like. Yet he created us so he is definitely responsible for the misery of this world. He knew beforehand who would do what, so 1.) he created evil and 2.)there is no such thing as free will, because it was determined from day one what would happen. If god wouldn know that all, how can he be all-knowing
If you actually really believe in this god and what he says is true, then face up to the fact that he is indeed responsible.

God created mankind perfect - it was satan who approached Adam and Eve in the Garden and tempted them - which led to sin. From that point on, mankind was born into sin - we are, by and at birth, sinners separated from God. Enter Jesus Christ, who was sent as our only way out to avoid eternal damnation. IF we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, we escape eternal hell.

Again, it depends on us to make the right choice.

I have never understood this concept. If Adam and Eve’s choices resulted in me being a “sinner” before I was born then how exactly do I have free will??

And except what I say as the only truth and give your allegiance to me or burn in hell for eternity! Hail Ceza……..um….In Jesus name, amen………..

Adam means Mankind, not one guy. Your choices are your own....AMUN

Peace

reply to post by letthereaderunderstand


Then I choose not to be held responsible for man or mankind’s mistakes and or decisions!

Just reposting this because a new page was created just when I posted this so it may not be read.

You all love this thread because you have to feel you are greater and feel further apart from God. You love it when you hear the name is Christ denounced and put down, it is taboo to do so and you thrive on it.

This was mans nature 2010 years ago and this is how some of you people sound today.

Luke 23

18With one voice they cried out, "Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!" 19(Barabbas had been thrown into prison for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)

20Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate appealed to them again. 21But they kept shouting, "Crucify him! Crucify him!"

22For the third time he spoke to them: "Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for the death penalty. Therefore I will have him punished and then release him."

23But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be crucified, and their shouts prevailed. 24So Pilate decided to grant their demand. 25He released the man who had been thrown into prison for insurrection and murder, the one they asked for, and surrendered Jesus to their will.
Text

This is what many want to believe.

Qur'an 4:157 "'We [Jews] killed the Messiah, Jesus,' but they killed him not, nor crucified him. It appeared so to them (as the resemblance of Jesus was put over another man and they killed that man). Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself. Those who differ with this version are full of doubts. They have no knowledge and follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they killed him not."
Text

Jesus may not have died on the cross for some and those who don't believe will want you crucified along with their own ideology which is dark end of the spectrum.

Qur'an 5:33 "The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly."
Text

The contrast in scriptures show what Christians believe and what other people want to believe, one is even a religion stating these things and maybe no so different from the athiest point of view.


[edit on 22-3-2010 by The time lord]

reply to post by undo

what would be the need to falsify anything?

Simply to hide the truth that jesus was not a god but a man that would be king. Perhaps the heir to the egyptian bloodline ? Who knows.

The Cathars were not slaughtered for nothing Undo, they were a threat to the RCC which would do anything to protect its' version of what was true. men will falsify anything to keep the money and power.

When addressing the mythical nature of Jesus Christ, one issue repeatedly raised is the purported "evidence" of his existence to be found in the writings of Flavius Josephus, the famed Jewish general and historian who lived from about 37 to 100 CE. In Josephus's Antiquities of the Jews appears the notorious passage regarding Christ called the "Testimonium Flavianum" ("TF"):

Despite the best wishes of sincere believers and the erroneous claims of truculent apologists, the Testimonium Flavianum has been demonstrated continually over the centuries to be a forgery, likely interpolated by Catholic Church historian Eusebius in the fourth century.
So thorough and universal has been this debunking that very few scholars of repute continued to cite the passage after the turn of the 19th century.

Indeed, the TF was rarely mentioned, except to note that it was a forgery, and numerous books by a variety of authorities over a period of 200 or so years basically took it for granted that the Testimonium Flavianum in its entirety was spurious, an interpolation and a forgery.
As Dr. Gordon Stein relates: "...the vast majority of scholars since the early 1800s have said that this quotation is not by Josephus, but rather is a later Christian insertion in his works. In other words, it is a forgery, rejected by scholars."

Source - by Acharya S

reply to post by The time lord

You love it when you hear the name is Christ denounced and put down, it is taboo to do so and you thrive on it.

Don't be silly there's nothing taboo about observing the lack of evidence for the existence of the godman jesus.

Only the simple minded observe a taboo in relation to an imaginary being, quit getting all girly on behalf of an invisible man if he doesn't like it he can open up the ground and swallow us loathsome bastards. I ironically jesus was a bastard wasn't he how on earth did he sneak into the temple ?


By the way christ wasn't a name it was a title, reserved for those of royal blood.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by yodagod]

Often, I have heard it stated that the Catholic faith is thee biggest cult on Earth.. and i find it pretty damned hard to disagree with the statement.

There are two Jehova Witness women that i have been speaking with now for a few months for..well.. entertainment i suppose, but not in a negative sense which it would have been in my younger days..more exchanging ideas and trying to get them to see other perspectives at the same time they try to get me to see theirs. interesting conversation. But trying to get them to even think about the view that Satan is not a true being in the sense they seem to think of him as, but is a thought form itself is truly impossible..the eyes glaze over with preconditioning and thats that.. the whole bible seems to show the eternal battle between good and evil.. dark and light.. in a very well written story book.. that has been taken sickeningly serious for far too long. I believe in a god 'mind' of sorts, and i do believe that we have a creator, as in we.. the people, animals, plants and universes/multiverses as a whole.. but the one thing we DO agree on is the state of the Catholic church! so thats some common ground at least lol.
Very good post, bwinwright

And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. John 16:3


If you knew the Father or Jesus you would not say such things.



Keeper

Originally posted by Keeper of Kheb
And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. John 16:3

If you knew the Father or Jesus you would not say such things.

Keeper

So if someone has a different point of view or asks questions you don’t like then it’s because they don’t have a relationship with god? How typical! And you’re able to “judge” a persons relationship with god under what authority?

reply to post by yodagod


she's (acharya) is most likely referencing the same people who said the ancient greeks couldn't write during the time their histories were written and threw out the ancient greek histories and epics. that ancient troy never existed and so on. german higher criticism, meant to secure the papal interpretation of history, sacked the rest of the ancient world to do so, resulting in the downfall of biblical history as well. they eventually had egg on their faces when archaeology ended up proving them wrong just 40 years later in the case of the ancient greeks. but that was the sign post that lead to ancient history being labelled mythological and falsehood.

acharya believes that all ancient history is a big metaphor for the planets and stars, and where she can't make that claim, she falls back on the higher critics, who were themselves papal professors in the german universities at the onset of the enlightenment period. it was through their efforts, that today, we still believe the ancient world is one big lie, even when confronted with archaeological evidence to the contrary.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by undo]

reply to post by Full_Vision

But trying to get them to even think about the view that Satan is not a true being in the sense they seem to think of him as, but is a thought form itself is truly impossible..

The JWs are some of the more deluded and from my experience have more emotional issues than a lot other bible cults.

here's a perfect example of what i'm talking about:

the epic of gilgamesh is found. in tablet 11 or thereabouts, it mentions the flood of sumer, which is nearly identical to the biblical account but from the perspective of the king of the time, looking back on the event as described by a figure quite similar to noah. bible researchers were excited that there was confirmation in another ancient text, not of biblical origin, that supported the event in such detail.

response from the mainstream community was:
"gilgamesh never existed."

30 years later:
news.bbc.co.uk...

response from the mainstream community?
silence.

if you ask why they keep ignoring archaeology that supports the ancient texts, they ask if you want to go back to believing in the tooth fairy. so to protect us from believing in the tooth fairy, we have to pretend that these people and places never existed.


[edit on 22-3-2010 by undo]

Why do these threads keep popping up?
How much more bandwidth is gonna be wasted here on ATS until people figure out it comes down to one thing and one thing only.

Faith.

Some choose to have it, others, do not.

There ya go - end of discussion - cause neither side can prove they're right or the other is wrong for that matter.

So, it's all in the Faith.

I'm just glad I have it.

reply to post by bwinwright


It's more like this I believe:

Constantine was desperately trying to be seen as "hip" or "with it" with the vast populace of his empire. There were numerous religions being practiced at the time, but the one with a full head of steam and gaining ground daily was the one in which they followed the teachings of Jesus of Nazereth and believed him to have been the true Messiah and Son of God.
He decided that religion would be the one he would follow and promote.

Runner up for Constantine was the religion that worshipped the holy bottomless skin of wine, because they threw really great parties, and the chicks were really hot.

He did not create Christianity, but was nevertheless partially responsible for it's spread and popularity.

Edit to add:
First Council of Nicaea, convened by order of the Roman emperor Constantine I in 325 CE. It wasn't until 380 CE that Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire.

[edit on 22-3-2010 by primus2012]

Originally posted by silo13

until people figure out it comes down to one thing and one thing only.

Faith.

...It also comes down to individual interpretations really.. and there are innumerable ways to do so with the bible and any/all other holy books. Faith can only get one so far because its a blind ideal..

Sorry this didnt work right, this is in response to Yodagod


The JWs are some of the more deluded and from my experience have more emotional issues than a lot other bible cults.




Oh i agree entirely on that, right along side the Mormons.. I have been of the opinion for a long time that every single religion on the face the Earth is a cult in its own ways..just not normally noticed as such.. sadly..



[edit on 22-3-2010 by Full_Vision]

troy never existed, they said. wrong again.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

reply to post by silo13



The human species is a 'figuring' creature...part of that 'figuring' is discussion amongst each other.

As you dont find it useful to discuss it....others will find it of use and enjoy the discourse.

Its funny because faith in different ideas and beliefs has brought mankind very different experiences. How can we ever say only one experience is right?

Faith should be discussed and challenged. Theories and philosophies should be discussed just the same.

If one who doesnt care to discuss 'faith' then why do it?

reply to post by Keeper of Kheb


And what would you say to someone that told you Jesus has shown them different. That Jesus has been made something he was not...that the story is tied to a book it doesnt belong to?

Would you deny such things since the book holds all the answers?

What if its a disgrace to God to call Jesus Lord and believe that we are saved through the death of another?

What if the only way to find out this is truth is to seek within you like Jesus taught you to do?

What if the book holds delusions for a reason....