What Can We Do to End the WAR?

ok so if nobody jions the military, can we expect a draft to occur? i mean the defense budget is about what 700 billion dollars USD.... and the job market is hurting right now, even i thought about re-enlisting, cause it garunteed pay...

now i have been deployed in 2003 for about 9 months, and then they were stop loss-ing MOS 's... I think is was mainly MPs... but anyhow, im sure we could expect that to happen when nobody volunteers for service... dont get me wrong im all for the military, but for a never ending war, that i do not support....

i still cant really bring myself to call it a war... cause its not really... its more like world domination... the rise of an empire, concouring from land to land...

still though... this really needs to stop, obama is the comander in cheif of the entire US armed forces... but what is he really doing to put an end to this, what just taking advice from advisors? not good enough... absolutely unacceptable, for a continueing occupation, and yes again i will say a complete waste of man power and resources, our military could be put to far better use at home...

reply to post by m khan


Yep. ProtoT addressed global finance on page two and I acknowledged thereafter that I was on the same page and leading toward the same message. There is a big picture that must be continually looked at in order to understand the parts.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by m khan

 

My theory is not popular, but I will post anyway.

Let the dogs loose.

We have to convince our government that it is time to take our intelligence agencies out of the doghouse. Since 9/11, they have been kept on a leash. Yes, they deserved the doghouse. However, one has to be in La-la land to believe that our intel hasn't always been a part of the universal torture system. They are no different than any other intel agency in the world.

Until our government decides that it can trust the agencies, you will continue to see troops overseas. IMO, it is time to bring the troops home and let intel do its job. Could there be a risk of torture?

No doubt, but I can only begin to imagine when that torture actually started. IMO, it wasn't the last ten years. It has always been there.

Like I said, not popular.

I do not understand what you are saying. You said let the dogs loose? The CIA dogs loose? The reason we are where we are is because they are loose. I believe they need to be shut down, tied up, tried and jailed. The intelligence dogs are dogs. The CIA is a big dirty dog that has been running through the street destroying our nation. It should be tied up. The DHS is just an extension of this dirty filthy animal. This filthy animal has had the privledge of training our local police which is why you get stories of taser happy cops.
These dogs is why we want to end this war. The big dog that is the CIA has taken over our military and is killing people wantonly all over the globe and our citizens are not holding them back or reining them in. The dogs have taken over. That is why we are at war.

reply to post by m khan


I'm not slurring the people, I'm definitely slurring their mujaheddin & taliban warriors and the ones controlling the nation. I have friends from the region and one from there. My words might sound harsh and a tough pill to some but they are true. We are dealing with stone ager mentalities over there. Not the general populace but the ones making it so hard for that nation to see stability.

The people must rise up or they will starve. Seems to me they NEED that kind of pressure like every other rather civilized country has in the dark ages, and still do now even in modern countries! North America is a relatively new frontier. Lots of growing pains for us and LOTS of stone agers.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

At the height of the Vietnam War Protests when Richard Nixon looked out the White House Window and saw a million young adults and teenagers gathered on the mall protesting the war he looked at the secret service agent with him and literally said “My G-d there are a million of them, how will we stop them if they decide to come over the fence?” the secret service agent of course replied “We, won’t be able to Mr. President”.


Stop the war? It is the only thing we are still good at, the only thing left as a nation we really create and do, weapons and war!

Think about it people.

We have been had.


[edit on 2/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

This is encouraging. I was in Washington in May (or June) of 1971 and saw some of this protest. That is what we need now. The 912 people didn't make a dent because the press ignored them. Maybe they did make a dent, but the press pretended to ignore them.A lot of people are very angry that 912 got ignored.We need another 912 but this one to end the WAR (and the FED and get out of the UN)

Here is an article about the May 1971 antiwar demonstrations
If you compare the anti-Vietnam demonstrations with the Pittsburg police action last fall it leaves you wondering if we would survive an anti War protest. They didn't have Fema camps back in 1971. The normal police didn't wear riot gear. If they could ignore 912 would they just ignore a massive peaceful demonstration.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by m khan]

Im afraid we can't do much but protest the war's really. It's massive business. The more war's the more $$$ and corporate people benefit that have military contracts.
The cost of war $Cost of War in Iraq
$709,860,722,481
Cost of War in Afghanistan
$257,013,029,357
And the numbers are rising as fast as our National Debt. And the saber rattling w/Iran is only getting worse. Predictions for war with Iran at least by next year but before 2012. How much are companies with military contracts are going to benefit from that. It's really all about control over the world's resources.
War creates jobs, war creates death. It's a cycle this world has been in since the dawn of man.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Do any of you think it possible that the private sector may be able to successfully bring about (world) Peace and if so, is this what we would want to see?




Am I stepping too close the the one-world order, here?

There will never be world peace. Even if humans were wiped from the earth. Every intelligent species on the planet is violent and has conflict.
Even Bonobos chew the fingers off other Bonobos.

Violence and conflict are built into the very nature and core of reality from supernovas that give violent births to new systems to the volcanoes that create the crusts of planets.

Death and destruction are part of the cycle of creation.

I'll sum up my feelings with a few quotes from William Pitt the Elder. He made these remarks during the American War of Independence. His remarks could easily be talking about American troops in Afghanistan/Iraq rather than British troops in America. I know it's long, but what he says rings true.


"You have ransacked every corner of Lower Saxony; but forty thousand German boors never can conquer ten times the number of British freemen. You may ravage—you cannot conquer; it is impossible: you cannot conquer the Americans. You talk, my Lords, of your friends among them to annihilate the Congress, and of your powerful forces to disperse their army: I might as well talk of driving them before me with this crutch! ...If you conquer them, what then? You cannot make them respect you; you cannot make them wear your cloth: you will plant an invincible hatred in their breasts against you. Coming from the stock they do, they can never respect you...

I know that the conquest of English America is an impossibility. You cannot, I venture to say it, you CANNOT conquer America...As to conquest, therefore, my Lords, I repeat, it is impossible. You may swell every expense, and every effort, still more extravagantly; pile and accumulate every assistance you can buy or borrow; traffic and barter with every little pitiful German Prince, that sells and sends his subjects to the shambles of a foreign country; your efforts are for ever vain and impotent—doubly so from this mercenary aid on which you rely; for it irritates, to an incurable resentment, the minds of your enemies—to overrun them with the sordid sons of rapine and plunder; devoting them and their possessions to the rapacity of hireling cruelty! If I were an American, as I am an Englishman, while a foreign troop was landed in my country, I never would lay down my arms, never! never! never! ...I call upon the honour of your Lordships to reverence the dignity of your ancestors, and to maintain your own. I call upon the spirit and humanity of my country to vindicate the national character. I invoke the genius of the constitution. From the tapestry that adorns these walls, the immortal ancestor of this noble Lord frowns with indignation at THE DISGRACE OF HIS COUNTRY! In vain he led your victorious fleets against the boasted Armada of Spain; in vain he defended and established the honour, the liberties, the religion, the Protestant religion of his country, against the arbitrary cruelties of Popery and the Inquisition.

My Lords, I rejoice that the grave has not closed upon me; that I am still alive to lift up my voice against the dismemberment of this ancient and most noble monarchy! Pressed down as I am by the hand of infirmity, I am little able to assist my country in this most perilous conjuncture; but, my Lords, while I have sense and memory, I will never consent to deprive the royal offspring of the House of Brunswick, the heirs of the Princess Sophia, of their fairest inheritance. Where is the man that will dare to advise such a measure? My Lords, his Majesty succeeded to an empire as great in extent as its reputation was unsullied. Shall we tarnish the lustre of this nation by an ignominious surrender of its rights and fairest possessions? Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!" – William Pitt (Elder)


[edit on 3/3/10 by Kram09]

Originally posted by Atlantican
reply to post by m khan

 

I'm not slurring the people, I'm definitely slurring their mujaheddin & taliban warriors and the ones controlling the nation. I have friends from the region and one from there. My words might sound harsh and a tough pill to some but they are true. We are dealing with stone ager mentalities over there. Not the general populace but the ones making it so hard for that nation to see stability.

The people must rise up or they will starve. Seems to me they NEED that kind of pressure like every other rather civilized country has in the dark ages, and still do now even in modern countries! North America is a relatively new frontier. Lots of growing pains for us and LOTS of stone agers.

You are not slurring the people of Afghanistan? You have friends in the region. I'm sorry I differ with you so much. But it really doesn't matter what people over there see or don't see or how basic their mentalities must be. We have got no business telling them how to live. We have no business bombing them or shooting at them. If our soldiers weren't there we wouldn't have any arguments with them. Since when does the land of the free and the home of the brave get to be the world's policeman. To be that big of a policeman we have to be a police state and that is why we are losing our rights as human beings in our own country, to justify controlling our lives so we can go and police the whole world. People are much less likely to starve if they are not in a war zone. Why do you think they need to rise up? They need to wise up.The United States of America the way the global elite is running it, is not their friend.You think we are so advanced in this country? People in the outmost boonies are just as intelligent as you are. You think your "race" is more intelligent than theirs? Tell that to your Afghan friends.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by m khan]

I wouldn't call it a war, I would call it an invasion and slaughter. How to stop the war? Get every American to stop paying their taxes. You need money to make money.

reply to post by Kram09

That is a great find.
Comparing our role in Afghanistan to the American Revolutionary war is brilliant. The American people aren't aware of how many mercenaries are employed in this war.Obama To Bring More Mercenaries to Afghanistan - Sound Familiar? That kind of thing results in this kind of thing Afghan Children Handcuffed & Killed By American Soldiers escept they weren't, they were mercenaries. But even if they were working for us, they were not under the control of our military. Anything is possible. The mercenaries hired by Blackwater.Xe can come from anywhere. We pay them to hire soldiers from anywhere. You wonder what countries they must be from. If the United States of America hadn't hired Blackwater/Xe to fight our wars for us, they probably would not exist as a body of soldiers to murder little children on our behalf.
This war is really out of control just like our government is out of control.
I want my country back.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by m khan]

reply to post by m khan


This is not like vietnam, because although vietnam was a loss (no it wasn't a draw) once you were out of the country retaliation was very unlikely. Consider what the possible outcomes are.

1. You don't withdraw, you continue to spend an enormous amount of money trying to intigate a stable democracy or republic. The peopel at home get increasingly tired of the war and people dying for it so your leaders are put under pressure, but they decide to stay the course. This leads to more and more tension in the regions involved, surrounding countries get fed up of it and fund more and more efforts to repel the invading armies. Victories are small but gradually wear the USA and her allies down as all guerilla warfare aims to do.

Twenty years from now the democracies may take hold but as soon as US troops withdraw some terrible leader arises and takes power quickly and it's all back to square one, only it is worse because the leader can no doubt unite the country.

2. You withdraw and terrorists see it as a victory. This swells their ranks and nations friendly to the cause supply them secretly in the best ways they can. Terror attacks on american soil increase, along with attacks on the allies of america.

What i am trying to say here is that you can't win. No matter what happens the outcome is a poor one and if the war had never of happened then the world could have been so very different. If the olive branch had been extended instead of the sword then the world would have seen the USA as the good guy and the terrorists would have had a great deal less ammunition to recruit people. Their speeches would have fallen upon increasingly deaf ears as they were seen as barbarians and the USA as the hero. To offer peace after such a terrible event like 9/11 may seem weak, but it's a very clever and strategic political move.

But that doesn't matter as it didn't happen and now we must deal with the situation as it is. I think it will take a hundred years to see any kind of progress and even then the hatred will run deep far longer.

reply to post by m khan


The difficult thing is getting through to people who aren't a member of this site.

I went on Omegle last week and i got in a conversation with a British soldier. He'd done in his first 6 months in Afghanistan and was due to go back there in the future.

We started having a discussion about the war. He felt that if we pulled out of Afghanistan the world would be a more violent place, which i disagreed with. I respected his opinions at all times, but in the end he just disconnected, because i don't think he could possibly understand or comprehend the things i was telling him about Afghanistan and the war on terror.

I don't think all other memebers of the armed forces think as he did....at least i hope not. But i'm sure some do and until they get it into their heads what is going on, it will be much more difficult.

Originally posted by Freezer
I wouldn't call it a war, I would call it an invasion and slaughter. How to stop the war? Get every American to stop paying their taxes. You need money to make money.

Taxes are much more of a way of robbing you of goods and services for your labors than they are to fund government ventures.

In fact the Federal Government owns huge swaths of valuable land, lucrative mining concessions, lucrative tourist concessions, lucrative patents and copy rights, and commercial properties it leases and rents to the private sector.

This does not even include import tariffs on goods coming into the country.

The Federal Government could easily fund itself if it chose too and what genuine shortfalls it had it could easily borrow abroad from the other nations and corporations that benefit from us securing sources and avenues of egress and regress for their use in the wars that we fight.

All taxation does is deny you the ability to buy a little more and enjoy more services with that money you technically earned but don’t get to actually keep for your own benefit.

Our currency is in fact no different than monopoly money it is instrument of debt fiat de facto currency that is not attached to any commodity or property to give it a fixed or real value. Its value is merely perceptual you perceive it has a value others perceive it has a value.

One remote South Sea’s Island’s inhabitants actually use rounded stones that weigh on average 20 pounds as currency. They are simply something to trade with one another for goods or services the individual does not have and can’t perform themselves in a ritual of getting others with excess goods or specialized skills to part with them or devote some of them.

In fact our currency emblazoned with “In God We Trust” is nothing but part of an elaborate religious ceremony.

The real currency of the planet is resources and human beings. That is why oligarchs’ horde resources and human beings are kept on farms (nations) to extract goods and services and to labor. Your reward for your labors is currency which is essentially script for use at the company store to have a portion of those resources then allotted to you as a reward.

The more we are taxed simply means the less you are being rewarded for your toils. For the underlying and real truth is those same oligarchs still control the resources you need to live on a planet and in a governmental system they have structured for you and everyone to ration out and dole those resources while compelling you to keep laboring to extract and give the resources for them to horde and lord over you.

Even without your worthless tax dollars they would still control these resources and still have people willing to extract them for a pittance of them, and to fashion them into implements of war for a pittance of these resources in return and still go off and fight those wars for a pittance of these resources as well.

The only thing that would be accomplished through mass failure to pay taxes would be those people who aren’t being able to secure more resources and services from the company store, and the government itself eventually having to take notice that more and more people were opting out of the control system.

This would either result in the population being disciplined through some form of penalty, a loss of rights or services that would be blamed on those refusing to participate in the taxation system which would motivate their fellow citizens to turn against them, or in rarer cases an inducement to release a larger ration of resources and services to encourage people to start participating in the control system again.

It absolutely would not stop the war, the use of currency is the use of an illusion to enslave you to debt, just like religion is used to slave you to ideology and philosophy, just like team spirit is used to enslave you with nationalistic pride to the farm (nation) you belong to and slave on.

The only thing that stops war is when the people who fight them in the trenches are no longer willing to do so.

In some trench warfare wars up to 100,000 people would die in one day, with wave after wave of men crawling into the trenches then dying in the trenches just to have another wave crawl in on top of them with each wave certainly knowing their chances of fairing any better had to be slim to none.

Yet whether it was for nation, God, their buddies, fear of being considered a coward, hatred and prejudice towards the enemy, a greater fear of not climbing in the trench to take their place and lay down their life than confronting and challenging the madness of the system, hop in they do, and die they will.

Oddly enough in the military commanders have a term called “Situational Awareness” that paramount need to understand one’s own tactical position realistically in conjunction with the enemies.

Amazingly few humans have situational awareness when it comes to understanding the control matrix that governs their existence.

Until people have true situational awareness and stop making life and death decisions based on only minute portions of the puzzle and their situation they will in fact happily engage in violently trying to dominate one another for their oligarch masters with nary a thought or a concern as to why they really are, as well as why they really don’t have to.

Blessed are the peacemakers, they are blessed because they are few and far in between and good luck in getting people to follow one should a genuine one emerge.

After all it didn’t take long as legend tells before Jesus found himself violently nailed to the cross, put there by the very same people whom he had hoped to save.

Evolution is a slow and tedious process.

I do have good news though; I just saved a small fortune on my car insurance by calling Geico!


[edit on 3/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

The War will never end. The enemy can be anywhere as it is not a country we have waged war against. The governments and media have pulled off one of the greatest feats in modern history. Making people believe it is acceptable and morally just to invade and occupy countries who have not waged war against either your own country or an ally. And they even have the brains to change the reasons for invading on a whim without anyone batting an eyelid and still feeling they are morally righteous. You have to admit, it's such a simple and brilliant strategy.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by Solomons]

reply to post by Solomons


Yet the truth is they could not do this without the support of the people and while the story changes the story always appeals to enough people based on very real and exploitable psychological factors instilled to the point of being inherent in most humans.

Wars always require a pretext to sell them to the people who will fight them. For instance a lot of people question why we here in the United States give such carte blanche support and aide to Israel and in large part it is because their close proximity to the world’s most vital resource oil, readily provides a pretext for violently securing those resources by selling it to the people as a moral and religious need to defend Israel from hostile neighbors.

Of course many people question Israel’s policies as not being conducive or inviting peace with its neighbors and in fact this is purposefully the case because if Israel wasn’t threatened by its neighbors the pretext to act aggressively towards its neighbors to secure and rob and control resources wouldn’t be there.

People are organized to fight for their governments in these expansionist and resource driven endeavors utilizing a wide variety of pretexts.

War won’t stop until people no longer see a greater value in these pretexts than they do their own lives and the lives of their sons and daughters, and brothers and sisters.

Let’s look at those things people can be emotionally exploited to fight for in this fashion.

1. G-d, people’s notions of the divine and what the divine want and expect of them with their eternal soul attached in jeopardy are easily exploitable. Since G-d as we have been taught to perceive it does not communicate these things himself, humans evoking the idea of what G-d really wants and then selling that as a way to earn points with G-d and secure the sanctity of their eternal soul through that process and support entice many people towards violence. As long as people allow other people to speak for G-d and imagine in fact that those people evoking his name are in fact evoking it correctly and wisely then people can be manipulated to violence using what G-d wants as a pretext.
2. Nation, my nation is better than your nation because my nation tells me so and my media shows me selectively out of context information about other nations to convince me of this. My team spirit and national pride and vanity are all attached to this notion that my nation is better than your nation and one of the ways I can then in fact prove my nation is better than your nation is having more people from my nation kill a greater number of people from your nation than your nation can kill in mine in return. Might makes right and validates that thinking. As long as people are willing to make nation more important than their own lives and others national pride can be exploited.
3. Resources, treasures and money, are always a powerful incentive for people to fight for. A paycheck, an oil well, some gold, a beautiful trinket or work of art appeal to those superficial minded people who in essence measure the value of a human being to hording and amassing those things. A guy who drives a Ferrari is not necessarily a kinder or more amiable person than the one who takes the bus but the perception is that he is smarter, more virile, and capable because he ‘earned’ and ‘secured’ that status symbol. So as long as people covet things, material things, that others have they will in fact violently and be manipulated to fight violently for them.
4. Security, as long as people can be convinced to fear they can be manipulated to acting aggressively to protect them from those fears. Fear like hope is a powerful motivational tool because fears are always based on imagined hypothetical’s that people will imagine all by themselves once you prod their imagination and emotions to focus on creating those hypothetical situations where they can all on their own imagine some horrible thing befalling them! People who tend to lead repetitive and boring day to day existences actually love to create this bit of drama, my routine flight to Grandma’s house now involves the possibility of imagined death and mayhem and tragedy, instead of Grandma smiling over compliments of her pumpkin pie she will be weeping forlornly and devastated after my plane has been violently blown from the sky by an imaginary fellow passenger, which one could it be, him, her, them, they look suspicious I tell you. When these fears don’t come true it’s just as easy to hopefully imagine well they didn’t come true because of a massive government security/military effort to save me, and well since I made it to Grandma’s house it there for must be working!
5. Pride, vanity, ego, greed, fear and jealousy are all in fact easily manipulated to extol people to fight wars, pay for wars, and condone wars because the reality is few if any of us have self mastered and learned to control these emotions within us. They are our hot buttons and as long as they exist as hot buttons people who desire power and resources will manipulate them, and manipulate us to get them those resources and give them that power.

So the sad truth is, is it the governments that do this to us, or is it us who does this to us?

This whole thread supports my premise. That we MUST end this WAR.
The Video The US Army Doesn't Want You To See
It is fine to say the war is bad, but what can we actually do about it?

[edit on 3-3-2010 by m khan]

The American people have a tradition of self rule and a democractic republic. We don't have a tradition of rolling over and playing dead. Well actually that happened in 1963, Nov. 22 & 23 and again in 2001 on Sept 12 but it doesn't have to define who we are. It is time to end Abortion, end the WAR, end the FED, get the blankety blank out of the UN and take our country back.


Every person in the entire country should turn out for a giant march, not on just Washington, DC but on every state capital and city hall and town council bldg, Then afterwards, they should go to their favorite place of worship and PRAY for their country.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by m khan]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by Solomons

 

War won’t stop until people no longer see a greater value in these pretexts than they do their own lives and the lives of their sons and daughters, and brothers and sisters. ...
the sad truth is, is it the governments that do this to us, or is it us who does this to us?

Granted. Ending war forever is a cute idea but a distraction and a crock. We can't try to end this war because humans are by nature inclined to war, Ask Captain Kirk, he will tell you that we can decide not to fight THIS war THIS day. And the notion that human beings are hopelessly addicted to war is just another New World Order lie. Give us the power and we will end war forever. Yeah sure, because we will all be dead or severly locked down..See the Iron Mt Report.
The pretext people have to see in ending this war is that the lives of their sons and daughters and brothers and sisters depends on ending this war and taking back our country.
Even without the moral issue, people have to realize that the war is ruining our economy and with it our country. If you think we would be better off giving up on our country and allowing the Nazis to impose their New World Order, then good luck.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by m khan]

reply to post by m khan


My favorite place of worship is a fetish club where while I myself don't pray a lot of people who interact with me constantly are saying "Oh G-d, Oh G-d, Oh G-d" would that count?

I sure respect your desire for peace but the reality is you are talking about a meet the new boss same as the old boss when you start attaching things like religion and abortion to your agenda.

There is nothing democratic about religion. You are never going to hear a Catholic Priest tell you Judaism or Islam is the religion for you!

They aren't going to let you vote on the Ten Commandments because they don't call them Commandments for nothing.

America is really more about self sovereignty, each person making up their own mind how to live their own life as long as they don't commit treason, murder people in cold blood, or steal from one another.

Natures laws are simple and while some people think of Nature as G-d, Nature is definately not the Christian, Judean or Islamic concept of G-d.

When you start wanting to mandate those kinds of religious psuedo moral issues, you are in fact talking about theocracy and not democracy and the truth is you have the right to live your life by that kind of code if you should so desire, but no right to foist it on others or look down upon others as long as they are not committing treason, cold blooded murder or stealing.

Religion is arguably a big part of the problem and since people in fact can't agree on it, or whether to even participate in it, and that is in fact all part of democracy lets not pretend anyone's religious/moral values should be mine or anyone elses.

As far as Christians go the only ones who really follow the Bible line for line word for word are the Pennsylvania Dutch Amish, they don't fail at the codes, cherry pick them, or make excuses for failing at them. They follow them.

Amongst the things they follow is not to judge others.

Develop your own code in life, stay true to it, rather than fail at a code you can't stay true to consistently.

I don't want to live my life like the Pennsylvania Dutch do, though I respect them and want them to have the right to lead that life.

I want to live my own life on my own terms and if there is a G-d and he has a problem with that, let him be the one to bring that up.

In the meantime I shall no doubt continue to help inspire people to evoke his name often in ways that I find meaningful, even though they are ways you might not enjoy at all.

Thanks.



[edit on 3/3/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]