striking similarity

I know that many post war jets used LOTS of German input, data and design teams, with the Mig 15 being virtuallya fully developed Ta 183 and the F-86 Sabre not looking like a P-80 clone solely because of the input from the Messerschmitt team, as well as many others, but a couple of recent (for me) discoveries have me wondering about some other, less well known ones.
There is the Messerschnmitt P1110 that was illustrated in another thread and its striking resemblance to the SAAB Lansen. Coincidence? Another one is a Heinkel 'Four Jet Bomber, 1945' which looks almost like a HP Victor with a swastika on the tail, Did HP and SAAB arrive at these aircraft on their own or did they too get German input I wonder? I must look into this further.

Hi Waynos
Sorry I'm late...lol.
I'm brand new to site but already have read a few of your catalogue of posts with great interest.
What you say in striking similarities is exactly what I've thought for ages.

Even though there has never been concrete proof, the vast majority of experts and researchers agree that the logical conclusion is that the MiG 15 was at least the first child of the Fw Ta183 design.

I've often wondered at the similarities of the SAAB Lansen to the Me P1110 too.
Also to my eyes at least the Hawker Hunter smacks of the Me too.
Another Messerschmitt design seemed to have been the inspiration for a SAAB too. The Saab...I think J29...looks just like a Me P1100.

Whilst on this theme, take a look at the Me P1101 (Aug '44) and the Polish Iskra jet trainer of the 50's. The similarity is uncanny.

I have done a series of Luft 46 camo profiles over on www.armorama.com in aircraft features titled Luft 46 Colours and I have a website www.flitzerart.com if you care to have a wander.

Cheers
Peter

Are these the planes you were talking about...

Messerschmitt Me P.1110

external image

SAAB Lansen



If I'am wrong, don't blame me... blame google/images

[edit on 31-1-2006 by Figher Master FIN]

Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 31/1/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Bloody silly google. I'll be back in a mo with the one that looks like the Lansen.

OK, compare this one with the Lansen, apart from repositioned intakes there's nothing in it.



the three views, Lansen at the top;





[edit on 31-1-2006 by waynos]

I see what you mean... the only difference is that the air-intakes are on the wings at the german model...

[edit on 31-1-2006 by Figher Master FIN]

There are several cosmetic difference of course, but the Messerschmitt was a proposal while the Lansen was a mature, fully developed design, so there would still be difference even if the earlier picture had been drawn by SAAB itself.

There is a huge difference between sketching out a concept and producing an actual aeroplane so I'm not saying that Messerschmitt were on the brink of building a Hunter class fighter, that would be silly.

However I am impressed by the fact that this was probably the first time that the layout that we now recognize as the 'standard' blueprint for all high subsonic fighters in the fifties had ever been drawn by anyone.

Hi again
The Me P1100 has two main variants. The 1100/l has two intakes on the fuselage sides just aft of the wings trailing edge. The 1100/ll had an anular intake almost encompassing the entire fuselage circumference.
I did see one other version, although no designation, that had similar intakes to the 1100/l but ahead of the wings just under the cockpit, sort of like cheeks.
Strange Messerschmitt didn’t consider wing root intakes as found in some Focke Wulf designs and the DH Vampire and the Hunter.


The colour image above is one of my earlier attempts at colour profile illustrations...lol.
Cheers
Peter

Waynos, Did the Me P1100 designs lead to this Fighter?

www.bharat-rakshak.com...

www.luftfahrtmuseum.com...

www.bharat-rakshak.com...

The Marut was designed by (or under the direction of) Kurt Tank of Focke Wulf, not Messerschmitt, though Messerschmitt designed the Helwan (ex Hispano) HA-300 from around the same time, however both teh HA-300 and the Marut were fresh designs not based on something else.

You mean this thing?

www.studenten.net...

I'm a big Luft46 guy and I'm personaly fond of the Ta-183
Unfortunately the stories of the Ta-183 Huckebein being a predecessor to the Mig have not held up. Presumably the engineers and the plans ended up in Russia after the war. Reality is that the key engineer Hans Multhopp ended up in the US while Kurt Tank and others ended up in Argentina where they produced the less than stellar Pulqui II.

Yes, thats the one, the last 'Messerschmitt' fighter, although to be honest that is just a development airframe, the slighly bigger and re-engined production model was designed to fly at mach 2. It would have been roughly in the MiG 21/Mirage III class.

Yes nullster that was one of many such assumptions that held sway in the west and was held to be true for many years. I believed it myself not so long ago until I really looked into the subject in more depth. By coincidence I was flicking through the 1955 Jane's earlier today, looking up some Mirage info for the Planes quiz thread on BTS, there is another example of not believing the Russians could build good planes on their own, besides the assumption that the MiG is developed from the Ta 183 it also states that the 'Badger bomber of unknown origin' (which we have long since known to be the TU-16)' is most likely based on the Junkers EF150'. Of course this too was completely wrong but it shows how the West thought back then; 'its very good, its Russian, so they obviously nicked it!'

The Germans had some decent designs on those boards, Its a shame most of them were never built

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