New Israeli Law Forbids Palestinians From Mourning Or “Showing Signs Of Sadness”

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox

Because Saudi Arabia offers no illusions of being a fair and democratic society. Israel however, does. There's nothing wrong with holding a self-declared democracy to the rigours and expectations given to other democratic nations. That they are Jewish does not exempt them, no matter how much you think it should.

You want to talk about Jew hatred? What would you call a society that constantly plots and plans in such a way to undermine the rights and physical safety of Jews within its borders? A government that not only gives the enemies of Jews encouragement to strike against them, but also financially and morally supports those enemies? What would you call a government that could very easily change course to protect the jews within its borders from harm, undermine the haters, and safeguard ethnic harmony... but doesn't? What would you call people who gleefully sit at their computer rubbing one out on how awesome this government is for making its Jews more insecure by the minute?

I call it Israel, and I would call such a person you.

I offers no illusions of being a fair and democratic society. So by your logic I can discriminate, kill or maim anyone I like.

Right?

Ever hear about the Christian government in Lebanon? Do you know what's happening to the Coptic Christians who've been in Egypt hundreds of years before there was even a Muslim religion? Do you know close to a million Jews were forced to leave Muslim countries after the unsuccessful attack by neighbouring countries the day the State of Israel was created? And what happened to all the Jewish and Christian communities throughout the Muslim Middle East? Why have they all fled?

Go start a country in the Middle East that isn't Muslim and get back to us about how to do things right.



[edit on 28-2-2010 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
I offers no illusions of being a fair and democratic society. So by your logic I can discriminate, kill or maim anyone I like.

Right?

That doesn't even make any sense. One person isn't a society, and nobody's arguing it's okay for Saudi Arabia. Simply pointing out why Israel catches the lion's share of criticism... because it acts liek Saudi Arabia but claims to be democratic.

Ever hear about the Christian government in Lebanon?

Sure have. Ever heard of Sabra and Shatila?

Go start a country in the Middle East that isn't Muslim and get back to us about how to do things right.

I wouldn't do such a thing because it makes no sense; Why would I want to impose a non-Muslim country on a bunch of Muslims? That'd be as goofy as starting a whites-only state in Africa! ...Which is why both Israel and South Africa have the problems they do. One marched over a bunch of Muslims, said "This is all for Jews now!" and the other marched over a bunch of Africans and said "This is all for whites now!"

So far you've drawn comparisons between Israel and Saudi Arabia, and pointed out just why Israel is screwing up so hard. Which side are you arguing again?

one can but wonder why they ve had it so hard to integrate with the rest of the world....

Originally posted by zerbot565
one can but wonder why they ve had it so hard to integrate with the rest of the world....

I don't understand.

I still don't understand why it is a big issue that their government wont fund a Palestinian morning event, in their own country,

Were they funding it before?

reply to post by Stormdancer777


He's talking about the troubles the Jewish people have faced across the world. basically blaming the victim and attributing the dumbassery of the Israeli government to all Jewish people.

Classy.

Originally posted by zerbot565
one can but wonder why they ve had it so hard to integrate with the rest of the world....

What are they still wearing
www.learnnc.org...

How do you distinguish?

They haven't been causing any trouble around here.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

He's talking about the troubles the Jewish people have faced across the world. basically blaming the victim and attributing the dumbassery of the Israeli government to all Jewish people.

Classy.

What?

I obviously didn't understand what was being said,

why the Classy remark?



[edit on 122828p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Israel softens Nakba bill, rejects proposed loyalty oath
www.dailystar.com.lb...

e Israeli cabinet on Sunday softened a much-criticized bill on the Nakba, what many Palestinians lament as the "catastrophe" of the 1948 creation of Israel. The revised draft law now prohibits any government funds from being used for events marking the Nakba, instead of banning commemorations altogether, a government official said.

I didn't know anything about this, so I am just researching, but the few articles I found state they will not fund the events,

Does this mean they have been funding these events?

If so why?

also why should they be expected to fund the events?

Since this is being ignored,

Why should they have to fund this ?

"The revised draft law now prohibits any government funds"

[edit on 122828p://bSunday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Why would I want to impose a non-Muslim country on a bunch of Muslims? That'd be as goofy as starting a whites-only state in Africa! ...Which is why both Israel and South Africa have the problems they do. One marched over a bunch of Muslims, said "This is all for Jews now!"

No soverign state any jurisdiction beyond it's borders to impose restrictions on who does what in a neighbouring country.

Israel was legally created out of British Territory. A Palestinian State was created. It's called Jordan. What was the West Bank was seized and occupied by Jordan in 1950. There was no complaint by the residents who did not want an independent state. Only after the Arab League unsuccessfully attacked Israel in a major war in 1967 and lost was control of the West Bank an issue. Notably Israel briefly occupied territories like the Sinai Peninsula but returned it to Egypt after a peace agreement. Egypt refused to take back Gaza which it occupied for decades.

The West Bank still today has no recognized sovereignty. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1919, it went to British Control. There was no complaint of occupation either by the Ottoman Turks for hundreds of years or the British for 3 decades. More Jews were thrown out of Muslim countries after the 1948 Arab war than there were so-called Palestinians. About 800,000.

Notably Jordan and Kuwait threw out their Palestinian populations after unsuccessful attempt to overthrow their governments.

No wailing and moaning around here when Muslims mistreat, persecute, kill other Muslims. An estimated 11 Million Muslims have been killed in war related events since 1948. 35,000 in Israeli conflicts, the other 10.96 Million by other Muslims. No one is crying about these massive injustices. Some ongoing like the massive genocide in the Sudan.

But of course Israel is always guilty of anything they do. Because it is a Jewish State.



[edit on 28-2-2010 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


I am afraid that you tried to pull out the old straw man argument.

If you will notice exactly what I stated, it is in regards to who is allowed citizenship in a country, thereby allowing for what we in the west call a democracy.

I did not state that Sharia Law did not exist, but it is the will of the people that we are talking about in these states.
These states still practice democracy, and if the will of the people is Sharia Law, then so be it.

In fact, I can only think of a handful of places on this planet that are not democracies.
You know the kind, where the citizens of the country actually vote on their leader and their laws.
The Incorporated citizens of the United States of America happen to NOT VOTE on their leader or any of their federal laws, and the route to citizenship in Israel is radically DISPROPORTIONATE in favor of anyone of Jewish descent.

Iran's last election was considered to be legitimate by the UN monitors and close to 70% of the population voted.
That smears all of the west, and in regards to Israel, I was referring to the DISPROPORTIONATE representation due to OBVIOUSLY racist LAWS REGARDING CITIZENSHIP.

No straw man is gonna work here homey.

Israel has horrible policies. It is a racist state, which is geared to be racist and is not so as a product of the voting populace.

According to International Law, Israel can validly exist.

When you talk about Sharia Law in other Muslim countries, you are discussing something to which the people both voluntarily adhere and vote upon.
These Muslim dominant democracies enact laws, laws which are racist and WRONG as well, against Jews.
This is not a lie, but the violence between the Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the holy land had been long settled and the area had finally maintained a peace, until the Balfour Declaration.

Violence only occurs in the holy land when it is STATE sponsored.
That violence can come from either side, but the balance of power is currently radically in favor of the Zionist Christians and Jews.

Originally posted by mmiichael
No soverign state any jurisdiction beyond it's borders to impose restrictions on who does what in a neighbouring country.

Parlais vous anglais?

Did you miss the point of what I said?

Israel was legally created out of British Territory. A Palestinian State was created. It's called Jordan.

Why are Israel's supporters inevitably stupid? Serious question. Take your statement here. It is AMAZINGLY easily disproven with a simple google search and... yet... there it is. There's no excuse for such sloppy, downright lying statements except for stupidity

Israel was indeed created out of British territory - whether it was "legal" is questionable, given the nature of imperialism. However it was created out of the Palestinian Mandate, which was separate from Jordan. Jordan was an independent nation for a few years prior to the division of hte Palestinian mandate.

If you want to use this argument, you might also want to look at Israel's 1948 borders; those are its "legal" boundaries in your argument.

What was the West Bank was seized and occupied by Jordan in 1950. There was no complaint by the residents who did not want an independent state.

Actually it was heavily protested by the Palestinians - the Jordanians used soldiers and police to "keep order" in that famous despotic way of Arab monarchies. Jordan wanted to Annex the West Bank as part of greater Jordan; But they didn't have the legal authority to do so, because Palestine was a separate place.

Only after the Arab League unsuccessfully attacked Israel in a major war in 1967 and lost was control of the West Bank an issue. Notably Israel briefly occupied territories like the Sinai Peninsula but returned it to Egypt after a peace agreement. Egypt refused to take back Gaza which it occupied for decades.

Uh... no. Israel was the aggressor against Egypt in the 1967 war. it was in fact a sneak attack, with the IAF blowing up the majority of the Egyptian air force on the ground. The other Arab League nations joined in because their ally was being attacked. Perhaps you're confused with the 1973 war, when Egypt attacked Israel?

The West Bank still today has no recognized sovereignty. After the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1919, it went to British Control. There was no complaint of occupation either by the Ottoman Turks for hundreds of years or the British for 3 decades. More Jews were thrown out of Muslim countries after the 1948 Arab war than there were so-called Palestinians. About 800,000.

Evidence?

Notably Jordan and Kuwait threw out their Palestinian populations after unsuccessful attempt to overthrow their governments.

Right on Jordan, wrong on Kuwait. Kuwait expelled its Palestinians - as well as tens of thousands of poor Kuwaitis including the majority of its Bedouins - after the war with Iraq not because of any crimes these people perpetrated but because it could. because it was economically and politically viable to do so.

No wailing and moaning around here when Muslims mistreat, persecute, kill other Muslims.

Now you're lying. The ass is for crapping, not talking.

An estimated 11 Million Muslims have been killed in war related events since 1948. 35,000 in Israeli conflicts, the other 10.96 Million by other Muslims.

I would ask for the source for your figures, but I already know they're full of it.

Algerian civil war: Algerians fighting the French
Iranian Revolution; Popular revolt against a US-British installed tyrant and his supporters
Iran-Iraq war; Instigated by Iraq with US backing and international funding. Interestingly, Israel was on Iran's side for this one
Lebanese civil war: Lebanon got sick of the PLO using its southern end as a staging area. Israel got involved, invading, and giving free reign to christian militias to slaughter Muslims willy-nilly.
Iraq-Kuwait War: Originally green-lighted by the US; became the "Gulf War" when US interests in Saudi Arabia became threatened.
Iraqi civil war: Under the illusion of US support, Iraq's shi'a try to overthrow Saddam government. Their slaughter goes uncovered in the Western media, which praises Saddam for respecting the no-fly zones (because his military is busy in the middle of the country slaughtering shi'a with US-purchased weapons)
Afghanistan civil war: US-backed terrorist and guerrilla organizations fighting against the Russian-backed government.
Afghanistan invasion: US attacks Afghanistan and is still working to "pacify" the country.
Iraq war: US invades Iraq, with predictable results.

I wouldn't be surprised that 11 million Muslims have lost their lives as a result of war. Saying that "other Muslims killed them" is childish and stupid, however. Pretty much every war in the region has been fomented, pushed, armed, funded, and encouraged by extra-regional players - mostly the US

No one is crying about these massive injustices. Some ongoing like the massive genocide in the Sudan.

Interestingly, you're lying again. There's plenty of news about this. Another thing we can lay at the feet of the British empire. if you'd like a history of Sudan

But of course Israel is always guilty of anything they do. Because it is a Jewish State.
[edit on 28-2-2010 by mmiichael]

Of course Israel is guilty of what Israel does.

[edit on 28-2-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

Originally posted by Josephus23
the violence between the Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the holy land had been long settled and the area had finally maintained a peace, until the Balfour Declaration.

Violence only occurs in the holy land when it is STATE sponsored.
That violence can come from either side, but the balance of power is currently radically in favor of the Zionist Christians and Jews.

The region where Israel now sits was largely desertified and Malaria-rdden on the coast. Only Jerusalem had a significant population ithe 1800s, bout 45% Jews who had live there for millenia, 35% Muslim Arabs and 20% Arab Christians.

They lived in relative harmony, until WWI and the dissipation of the Ottoman Empire.

The policy of systematical Jewish exptermiantion actually began with the British appointed Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Muhammed Amin al-Husseini, in the early 1920s. He initiated attacks on Jews and went on to work with the Nazis in Berlin during WWII. Being paid a large stipend, he promoted virulent antisemitism on radio, co-ordinated Jewish genocide programs, and tried to implement a series of Nazi-style death camps for Jews in the Middle East.

www.palestinefacts.org...

Muhammed Amin al-Husseini … 1893 (or 1895), the son of the Mufti of Jerusalem and member of an esteemed, aristocratic family. The Husseinis were one of the richest and most powerful of all the rivalling clans in the Ottoman province known as the Judaean part of Palestine.

… He voluntarily joined the Ottoman Turkish army in World War I but returned to Jerusalem in 1917 and expediently switched sides to aid the victorious British. He acquired the reputation as a violent, fanatical anti-Zionist zealot and was jailed by the British for instigating a 1920 Arab attack against Jews who were praying at the Western Wall.

The first Palestine High Commissioner. Sir Herbert Samuel arrived in Palestine on July 1, 1920. He was a weak administrator who was too ready to compromise and appease the extremist, nationalistic Arab minority led by Haj Amin al-Husseini. When the existing Arab Mufti of Jerusalem (religious leader) died in 1921, Samuels was influenced by anti-Zionist British officials on his staff. He pardoned al-Husseini and, in January 1922, appointed him as the new Mufti, and even invented a new title of Grand Mufti. He was simultaneously made President of a newly created Supreme Muslim Council. Al-Husseini thereby became the religious and political leader of the Arabs.

The appointment of the young al-Husseini as Mufti was a seminal event. Prior to his rise to power, there were active Arab factions supporting cooperative development of Palestine involving Arabs and Jews. But al-Husseini would have none of that; he was devoted to driving Jews out of Palestine, without compromise, even if it set back the Arabs 1000 years.

…

Al-Husseini represented newly emerging proponents of militant, Palestinian Arab nationalism, a previously unknown concept. Once he was in power, he began a campaign of terror and intimidation against anyone opposed to his rule and policies. He killed Jews at every opportunity, but also eliminated Arabs who did not support his campaign of violence. Husseini was not willing to negotiate or make any kind of compromise for the sake of peace.
….
In 1929, major Arab riots were instigated against the Jews of Palestine. They began when al-Husseini falsely accused Jews of defiling and endangering local mosques, including al-Aqsa. The call went out to the Arab masses: "Izbah Al-Yahud!" — "Slaughter the Jews!" After the killing of Jews in Hebron, the Mufti disseminated photographs of slaughtered Jews with the claim that the dead were Arabs killed by Jews.

In April, 1936 six prominent Arab leaders formed the Arab Higher Committee, with the Grand Mufti Haj Amin al-Husseini as head of the organization, joining forces to protest British support of Zionist progress in Palestine. In the same month, riots broke out in Jaffa commencing a three-year period of violence and civil strife in Palestine that is known as the Arab Revolt. The Arab Higher Committee led the campaign of terrorism against Jewish and British targets.

Using the turmoil of the Arab Revolt as cover, al-Husseini consolidated his control over the Palestinian Arabs with a campaign of murder against Jews and non-compliant Arabs, the recruitment of armed militias, and the raising of funds from around the Muslim world using anti-Jewish propaganda.

In 1937 the Grand Mufti expressed his solidarity with Germany, asking the Nazi Third Reich to oppose establishment of a Jewish state, stop Jewish immigration to Palestine, and provide arms to the Arab population. Following an assassination attempt on the British Inspector-General of the Palestine Police Force and the murder by Arab extremists of Jews and moderate Arabs, the Arab Higher Committee was declared illegal by the British. The Grand Mufti lost his office of President of the Supreme muslim Council, his membership on the Waqf committee, and was forced into exile in Syria in 1937. The British deported the Arab mayor of Jerusalem along with other members of the Arab Higher Committee.

According to documentation from the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, the Nazi Germany SS helped finance al-Husseini's efforts in the 1936-39 revolt in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann actually visited Palestine and met with al-Husseini at that time and subsequently maintained regular contact with him later in Berlin.

In 1940, al-Husseini requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right:

"... to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy."

While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler's special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS "mountain divisions" that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.

At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

"The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz."

With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero. After the war al-Husseini was indicted by Yugoslavia for war crimes, but escaped prosecution.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Sarcasm; I find his assertion to be classless.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Sarcasm; I find his assertion to be classless.

I see, I sure get confused sometimes.

Originally posted by mmiichael
The region where Israel now sits was largely desertified and Malaria-rdden on the coast.

Malaria. In the desert. Does cognitive dissonance hurt? You can't have malaria-laden swampland in a place you're calling an abandoned desert.

Only Jerusalem had a significant population ithe 1800s, bout 45% Jews who had live there for millenia, 35% Muslim Arabs and 20% Arab Christians.

Actually the Jews had only lived there since the period when Muslims took the place from the Byzantines; prior to that, Jews were forbidden from the city by the Christians. Afterwards, Christian crusaders came and killed as many Jews as they could find. Jerusalem has been a mixed body for a while, but it was not predominantly Jewish at any point after the Roman era.

They lived in relative harmony, until WWI and the dissipation of the Ottoman Empire.

I guess Israel's supporters can't lie all the time.

The policy of systematical Jewish exptermiantion actually began with the British appointed Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Muhammed Amin al-Husseini,

Untrue

in the early 1920s. He initiated attacks on Jews

Untrue

and went on to work with the Nazis in Berlin during WWII.

Sort of true. Actually had nothing to do with Jews; Germany was britain's enemy, and Britain was the Mufti's enemy. He essentially got "hijacked" by the Nazis; they were good at that sort of thing.

Being paid a large stipend, he promoted virulent antisemitism on radio, co-ordinated Jewish genocide programs, and tried to implement a series of Nazi-style death camps for Jews in the Middle East.

No he didn't. You're lying painfully hard now.

www.palestinefacts.org...

Ah! There's the problem! You're basing your statements on the jewish version of Stormfront. haha, silly you. You got had so hard

[edit on 28-2-2010 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


So I will ask you directly,

Do you think in light of the information I posted, the Israeli government should fund it?


"The revised draft law now prohibits any government funds"

Someone help me, I thought it was a good question, lol

reply to post by Bahb3


An absolute disgrace of course. But for the Israeli political elite it makes sense. They are looking to re-write history such as in '1984'. People will forget it ever happened if they wipe away any reference to it must be their logic.

Rather than humiliating and provoking the Palestinians, and in particular those with an Israeli passport, wouldn't it make more sense to try and include them within the Israeli mainstream? This seems to make more sense for their future security, rather than creating and 'enemy within' by humiliating the Palestinian Israelis.

The Palestinian Israelis have been surprisingly loyal to the state of Israel. Even with a court system stacked against them and constant humiliation, it is very rare that they are involved in attacks on Israel. I get the feeling this is not going to last...

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

So I will ask you directly,

Do you think in light of the information I posted, the Israeli government should fund it?


"The revised draft law now prohibits any government funds"

Someone help me, I thought it was a good question, lol

Depends. Why did they have to specifically NOT fund this? It implies they funded it before, after all; so does Israel fund demonstrations in general and made an exception for this one?

reply to post by Peruvianmonk



What do you think about my question,peruvian?