Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

There are women in this world who dress in a manner that covers thier entire bodies and they still get raped..please, it is nothing but an excuse.
Being a man, being a woman and being human are piss - poor excuses for a lot of stupid, unnecessary and primitive behavior.
Do the women fixate on porn? No.
Do women though violence force themselves on the weaker (other men women and children and in rare cases animals) for the purpose of sex? No, that's a guy thing.
Ok, I would consider it a sign of mental illness to have such an intense fixation that one must force themselves upon another or sit slack-jawed in front of a computer staring at T&A and goodness knows what else.
I'm sure many of the male posters here would dispute that they are mentally ill but under normal circumstances, any other behaviour with a focus of such intensity would at least be considered OCD.
Do men want to eventually be thought of as mentally ill?!

Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Originally posted by juniperberry
I wouldn't go so far to say that women are responsible for their rapes, but they do have to take some responsibility to ensure their own safety.

I agree with you here. There are plenty of rapists out in society, and wearing skimpy clothes will surely attract their attention a lot more.

It's not just the nice guys who's heads will turn. At the end of the day, if a woman flaunts her body to attract men, they're more likely to get a man who just wants their body.

Plenty of rapists in our society who are men.. plenty of rape victims in our society who are women. So your answer is for women to be taught not wear skimpy clothes? What is so wrong with actually teaching young men NOT to rape? Why are some people more angry over what women wear than they are at the men who rape them?

[edit on 17-2-2010 by riley]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


In my view this is not about giving good advice. The OP posted a thread about rape victims. As a woman I already take precautions against thugs, I live in the city. To continue saying I am not acknowleging that woemn should take precautions has NOTHING to do with rape, and a woman raped.

Of course women should take precautions against men. According to this thread, all it takes to turn a man into a rapist is slutty clothes. Because a woman who dares dress like a slut is attracting rapists to her, and should accept blame for the crime perpetrated against her.


Again, by saying women need to take precautions, you start out with the base assumption ALL MEN CAN BE TURNED INTO RAPISTS by virtue of a woman's clothing, or dancing on a dance floor in a low cut dress.

THAT is what I have a problem with.

I have no problem with women taking precautions to protect themselves from rapists.

What you do not get is that my belief is A Woman is NEVER TO BLAME for a rapists acts.

To assign even personal blame(not legal, haha what a joke) you are saying it is NOT ALL THE RAPIST FAULT.

How can a rape be a crime if you are assigning blame to the victim?

This is what I believe, and I have been very clear about it. Nor will I budge from how I feel.

You will never get me to agree to that, ever.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
So you can continue on trying to discredit the source or the OP...but the fact remains that the same opinions you are trying to discredit in the poll are showing up here in this discussion.

So why continue to waste time saying the source isn't credible and pretending that these opinions don't exist???

Because then, "hotbakedtater" would have to consider her point of view from a larger perspective maybe?

Originally posted by riley
What? It is a designer evening gown NO woman in her right mind would risk damaging a dress that would cost 10G to buy. Regardless if a guy is stalking a woman late at night he wouldn't be able to see her breasts anyway and she would be just as mcuh a target as any other woman walking through a ghetto late at night buy herself. Neither outfit would make her more prone to being raped your example was very foolish.

We are not talking about woman walking alone in dark places. I only said that as it was in relation to your statement before. The price of the gown is irrelevant. Have you heard of any rapist commenting on the price of the victim's dress as a motivation for rape? If you cannot admit to the fact that women who dress in revealing clothing are drawing attention to themselves and making themselves more of a target for negative behaviour, then you can keep your head in the sand.

So a couple of women show cleavage and bare shoulders and you think they are being immodest?

No.. they're just wearing evening wear and are actually dressed very conservatively. What.. do you think they should have been wearing burkas when accepting their awards? Do you think rapists were waiting outside because their clothes sent them into a sexual hate frenzy?

This is such a weak argument. Are any of those women I've shown wearing burkas? Are any of them wearing head-scarves? Are any of them dressed like ninjas? No. Have I said multiple times I am not advocating women wear burkas? Yes.

There is a difference between a rapist that hides in the shadows and preys on women whenever the opportunity arises, and one who decides on impulse to take advantage of a woman that cannot consent to sex. You cannot classify all Rapists as the first kind and pretend the second kind are the same.

Incidentally one of those ladies has publically admitted to being bisexual and having an open marriage. She has actually attended public functions with her lover and not her husband. Guess which one she is? I doubt you would as you seem to have some very follish ideas about sexuality.

Umm, ok. What does being bisexual and being in an open relationship have to do with the topic exactly? I know which one you are talking about (MS). But that has nothing to do with the topic. If you are not aware, there is a difference between sexuality and sexual orientation.

Oh.. so now rape victims 300 years ago asked to be raped too did they? :shk:
Your arguments and the examples you have given of immodesty are ridiculous. You may as well argue that women who wear wedding gowns are asking to be raped by the guests. Stop being silly.

You know full well that all my points stand and instead of admitting you are wrong - seems to be very hard for you - you hide behind incredibly weak arguments to convince yourself otherwise. The conclusions you have reached based on the content of my posts show that you have either not understand what was said, or you are ignoring them and referring to straw man tactics.

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
So you can continue on trying to discredit the source or the OP...but the fact remains that the same opinions you are trying to discredit in the poll are showing up here in this discussion.

So why continue to waste time saying the source isn't credible and pretending that these opinions don't exist???

Because then, "hotbakedtater" would have to consider her point of view from a larger perspective maybe?

Why would I have to consider my POV any other way?

I would love to have had an honest survey upon which to base this discussion.

As I see it, this thread DOES follow closely the survey, in attitudes towards rape victims. I am outraged there are women in the world who blame themselves for the actions of dirty pigs, that is a huge shame, and nothing a woman does (even if its stupid) gives anyone else a right to rape her. If she put her self in harms way, that was stupid. It IN NO WAY says she is partially to blame for her rape!

What exactly do you mean by your statement?

If it's true then this world is done. There's no other hell than here. But I didn't say anything new I guess.

Females should be taught how to fight and how to kill because we too often wind up victims regardless of what we wear.
Men have always been violent.
Now the children are becoming violent.
But god help the human race when the women become violent.
That is not a world that men will want to be in - trust me.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
What you do not get is that my belief is A Woman is NEVER TO BLAME for a rapists acts.

There it is...right there!

Your ignorant point of view is making you blind to the responsibility of women for their own safety.

Are you seriously trying to say that NO rapes are avoidable and that 100% of every rape is NOTHING to do with the victims revealing clothes, outgoing personality, perfume, flirting, make-up, alcohol abuse etc etc?

With great power comes great responsibility. Women need to take it, or give up that power if they cannot deal with the accountability that goes with it.

Unfortunately, things like the desire for attention are placed much higher on some women's lists than safety don't you think?

Originally posted by rcwj1975

Originally posted by zatara
Some people are searching for an excuse that will justify to rape a woman...what is that all about?

I will not comment any further in this thread because it is becoming a stupid discusion....

Thank god, because the only STUPID discusion is coming from people like you, NOT paying attention or comprehending.

For people like you I make an exception.....

Second line

EDIT....

[edit on 17-2-2010 by zatara]

reply to post by hotbakedtater

Again, by saying women need to take precautions, you start out with the base assumption ALL MEN CAN BE TURNED INTO RAPISTS by virtue of a woman's clothing, or dancing on a dance floor in a low cut dress.

No...I have never said this...and I don't believe this. And neither does anyone else that I have seen. But that doesn't stop YOU from telling ME what my position is on this (strawman).


Here is MY position. There are rapist out there. They are predators and look for weak prey and easy targets. All we are saying is to take precautions to not make yourself that easy target. And we are also saying that in SOME cases...not all like you try to say (strawman)...women make bad decisions that put themselves in a dangerous situation...and they need to take responsibility for their own decisions that put them in that situation. Does this mean I am saying that the rapist is less than 100% responsible for raping someone....NOOOOOOOO.

And someone keeps bringing up burkas and that cleric...not sure if it was you or Riley. And saying it doesn't matter what women wear, because even in countries where they are covered head to toe there are still rapes. Again...STRAWMAN....because we aren't saying wearing certain clothes is the cause for ALL rape cases. We are saying it MAY be a factor in SOME rape cases...and that is something everyone has personal control over...so why not control it???

Originally posted by PaganArchangel
There are women in this world who dress in a manner that covers thier entire bodies and they still get raped..please, it is nothing but an excuse.

That is like saying well there are people in this world who get punched in the face for no reason, so hurling racial insults at the Cricket then getting punched in the face is no excuse to complain about anyone getting punched in the face.

It does not take a rocket scientist to realise that those hurling the racial insults are much more likely to get punched in the face than those who don't.

Being a man, being a woman and being human are piss - poor excuses for a lot of stupid, unnecessary and primitive behavior.

Agreed. Not sure if this relates to the topic however.

Do the women fixate on porn? No.
Do women though violence force themselves on the weaker (other men women and children and in rare cases animals) for the purpose of sex? No, that's a guy thing.

Yep, all men are fixated on porn and force themselves onto women for the purpose of sex whenever they want. Do you generalise much?

Ok, I would consider it a sign of mental illness to have such an intense fixation that one must force themselves upon another or sit slack-jawed in front of a computer staring at T&A and goodness knows what else.

The difference is that the 2nd person is not harming anybody else by their actions. How does it affect you or anyone else if Joe Smith decides to watch a movie of a man having his way with a goat (lol)?

I'm sure many of the male posters here would dispute that they are mentally ill but under normal circumstances, any other behaviour with a focus of such intensity would at least be considered OCD.
Do men want to eventually be thought of as mentally ill?!

Go look up the word "misandry" and you will notice you might have mental illnesses of your own.

[edit on 17/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]

Originally posted by hotbakedtater

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
So you can continue on trying to discredit the source or the OP...but the fact remains that the same opinions you are trying to discredit in the poll are showing up here in this discussion.

So why continue to waste time saying the source isn't credible and pretending that these opinions don't exist???

Because then, "hotbakedtater" would have to consider her point of view from a larger perspective maybe?

Why would I have to consider my POV any other way?

I never said "another way", I said "a larger perspective". There's a difference.

Take your opinion and ADD to it to give you a wider view with which to base your seemingly narrow opinion. Unless you consider more possibilities, how can you understand another's viewpoint?

To say no woman who is raped is at all responsible for the crime is naive to say the least, and the case quoted earlier in this thread regarding the rapecase in the UK proves that.

Power? Oh please..
When more males then females wind up in ditches, shallow graves, stuffed in dumpsters and holed up in battered shelters will I believe that we have any illusion of power. Should it have to come to that? I'd hope not.
Only when boys cease to be boys and become real men that can restrain themselves and act like the adults they are supposed to be will I respect them.
Luckily I have had the pleasure of knowing such real men in my life, the only shame being that the number of those I could count on one hand and less than five fingers.
I am equally as ticked at women who for whatever reason, holler rape when it was consensual because untrue allegations don't help those who were actually raped.

Oh, now I'm being accused of being anti - man. I can assure you this is definitely not the case - I just have zero tolerance for rationalizations for such idiocy as rape.

Originally posted by PaganArchangel
There are women in this world who dress in a manner that covers thier entire bodies and they still get raped..please, it is nothing but an excuse.

So since some women who are dressed head to toe are raped...then you somehow logically conclude that NO rapes ever happen because of the way someone is dressed??? Could you step me through that logic step by step? I'll help you out with the outline...you fill in the blanks.

Premise 1: There are women in this world who dress in a manner that covers their entire bodies and they still get raped.

Premise 2: ???

Conclusion: Clothing does not factor into any rape cases

Please fill me in to your great logical leap.

Do the women fixate on porn? No.
Do women though violence force themselves on the weaker (other men women and children and in rare cases animals) for the purpose of sex? No, that's a guy thing.
Ok, I would consider it a sign of mental illness to have such an intense fixation that one must force themselves upon another or sit slack-jawed in front of a computer staring at T&A and goodness knows what else.
I'm sure many of the male posters here would dispute that they are mentally ill but under normal circumstances, any other behaviour with a focus of such intensity would at least be considered OCD.
Do men want to eventually be thought of as mentally ill?!

Stereotype much?

And now you want to label men as mentally ill because they think about sex?

I'm not understanding any of your reasoning.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost

Originally posted by riley
What? It is a designer evening gown NO woman in her right mind would risk damaging a dress that would cost 10G to buy. Regardless if a guy is stalking a woman late at night he wouldn't be able to see her breasts anyway and she would be just as mcuh a target as any other woman walking through a ghetto late at night buy herself. Neither outfit would make her more prone to being raped your example was very foolish.

We are not talking about woman walking alone in dark places. I only said that as it was in relation to your statement before. The price of the gown is irrelevant. Have you heard of any rapist commenting on the price of the victim's dress as a motivation for rape? If you cannot admit to the fact that women who dress in revealing clothing are drawing attention to themselves and making themselves more of a target for negative behaviour, then you can keep your head in the sand.

I have my head in the sand? Why would a woman where an evening gown in a ghetto? You are being silly. Have you got stats on rape attacks against women wearing evening gowns at premiers? No.. and her gown was NOT very revealing.. and you compared it to jeans and a jacket! Your backtracking just makes you look even more foolish.

So a couple of women show cleavage and bare shoulders and you think they are being immodest?

No.. they're just wearing evening wear and are actually dressed very conservatively. What.. do you think they should have been wearing burkas when accepting their awards? Do you think rapists were waiting outside because their clothes sent them into a sexual hate frenzy?

This is such a weak argument. Are any of those women I've shown wearing burkas? Are any of them wearing head-scarves? Are any of them dressed like ninjas? No. Have I said multiple times I am not advocating women wear burkas? Yes.

So what is your point? You posted a pic of a group of famous middle aged women in conservative evening wear.. a couple had bare shoulders, cleavage and a couple were covered from chin to toe. It's not like you posted a pic from a porn awards ceremony.

There is a difference between a rapist that hides in the shadows and preys on women whenever the opportunity arises, and one who decides on impulse to take advantage of a woman that cannot consent to sex. You cannot classify all Rapists as the first kind and pretend the second kind are the same.

Neither can consent to sex your point does not make any sense.

Incidentally one of those ladies has publically admitted to being bisexual and having an open marriage. She has actually attended public functions with her lover and not her husband. Guess which one she is? I doubt you would as you seem to have some very follish ideas about sexuality.

Umm, ok. What does being bisexual and being in an open relationship have to do with the topic exactly? I know which one you are talking about (MS). But that has nothing to do with the topic. If you are not aware, there is a difference between sexuality and sexual orientation.

You posted the pic in order to point out that some were showing cleavage and that they were showcasing their sexuality so yes their sexuality is relevent as you were implying that their dress sense was an indication of sexual behaviour. What does MS mean? The one I was talking about was Tilda Swinton and the only flesh she is showing is her neck, hands and head and her outfit is loosely fitted. She is not showing off her sexuality at all but she is very open about her alternative sex life.

Oh.. so now rape victims 300 years ago asked to be raped too did they? :shk:
Your arguments and the examples you have given of immodesty are ridiculous. You may as well argue that women who wear wedding gowns are asking to be raped by the guests. Stop being silly.

You know full well that all my points stand and instead of admitting you are wrong - seems to be very hard for you - you hide behind incredibly weak arguments to convince yourself otherwise. The conclusions you have reached based on the content of my posts show that you have either not understand what was said, or you are ignoring them and referring to straw man tactics.

You just told me that I know full well that I'm wrong yet you have not countered my argument. Aka "I'm right your wrong you know it so there!"

Your point stands does it?

How does posting pictures of middle aged women in evening wear prove immodesty sometimes causes rape?

[edit on 17-2-2010 by riley]

If males were not fixated on sex then there wouldn't be a multi - billion dollar industry catering to it.
There are those here who wish to deny their nature when it can be seen in jails everywhere...for heaven's sake it isn't the females who are acting like this..

Originally posted by PaganArchangel
If males were not fixated on sex then there wouldn't be a multi - billion dollar industry catering to it.
There are those here who wish to deny their nature when it can be seen in jails everywhere...for heaven's sake it isn't the females who are acting like this..

No one said men aren't fixated on sex. We are in fact fixated on sex...and there is nothing wrong with that when it is fixated in a healthy and controlled manner.

But you calling a natural biological driven fixation a mental illness is in itself crazy.

That would be like me calling women mentally ill for being fixated on having a baby. And yes I know not all women are fixated on having a baby...but then again not ALL men are fixated on sex.

Sorry riley, but you have your head very deep in the sand on this issue. I am not going to keep repeating the same information when you continue to ignore and create Straw Man arguments in response every time I do.

------------------------------------

An example for those fixated on making this a classic "Men mistreating women" thread:

If a homosexual man goes to a Gay Bar dressed scantily, flirts and drinks with other men there, goes home with somebody...you know where this leads to. Did he deserve to be raped? NO. Did his attire say "please rape me" NO. But his decision to put himself in that situation and make himself vulnerable heightened the risk substantially. Had he taken better precautions beforehand, he could have had a much better chance of avoiding this negative experience.

It seems many more of these types of rape are being reported as opposed to the "stranger in the bushes" number of cases. They both exist, but obviously the one can be avoided much more easily than the other.

[edit on 17/2/2010 by Dark Ghost]