Question to Masons on this board

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
See AK, like I said, shred all the documents, put the squeeze on JCM and this whole Fox-Maiden thing would blow over. Now if you could just send over the files on mage, we'll get that issue straightened out as well, the (supposedly mythical demonic) creatures behind door #2 are making so much noise that I can barely formulate a post, if I don't feed them quick I might slip up and reveal something, like our secret underground base at... hey wait... is this thing on? Now I've done it... we really WILL have to take over the world now.

All I've got to say is:


TS

Originally posted by TheSeeker
Interesting that every Mason must hold each of the positions, seems a logical way to gather experience at all angles of one's local fraternity's operations.

This varies from Jurisdiction to Jurisdiction. In mine, the offices of Worshipful Master, Senior Warden, Junior Warden, Treasurer, and Secretary are elected by majority vote of the Lodge. The new Master then appoints the Senior Deacon, Chaplain, and Tyler; the Senior Warden appoints the Junior Deacon; and the Junior Warden appoints two Stewards.
Technically, any Master Mason can succeed to any office. The only exception is that of Master, which the candidate for office must have at least served one term as Warden, except by a special dispensation from the Grand Master, who is authorized to allow one who has not been a Warden to be installed Master in certain circumstances.
It is �usual� in my Jurisdiction for a Brother to move chair to chair, but not required. The year I became a Mason, I �filled in� for the Junior Deacon the rest of the year, who had moved out of state. The next year, I was appointed Senior Deacon. I skipped Junior Warden because of the death of that officer, and became Senior Warden, and I was elected and installed Worshipful Master the following year. I served one term as Master, and have been elected Secretary every year since then.

I'd assume that when one is in the position of WM, he presides over the whole lodge, and I guess would be the "Master of Ceremony" during ritual? Just wondering.

The Master is authorized to preside over every meeting of his Lodge. The only exceptions are when the Lodge is visited by the Grand Master or District Deputy Grand Master, to whom the Master turns over the gavel through courtesy, which they may accept or decline.
In actual practice, though, the Master often defers the Chair to a subordinate during degree ceremonies. In my area, it is usual for the Junior Warden to preside over the First Degree, the Senior Warden to preside over the Second, and the Master to preside over the Third, although the Master can invite any Brother to preside in his presence. The purpose of this is to give other officers some experience in presiding and leadership.

Fiat Lvx.

Originally posted by billmcelligott
TS

Interesting that it can take (if one chose I'd suppose) such a time to reach those degrees. It intrigues me as to the amount of knowledge there is to study? If anyone could respond to this (within your bounds, I'm not looking to get secrets divulged) thought, it's greatly appreciated.

There is as much or as little knowledge as you wish to take on board.

Maybe I'm unfamiliar with the term "Past Master in Craft"? But I took it as you've since left the Brotherhood? If so, and you don't mind, may I ask why? Thank you.

No I have not left, the term indicates that I have been a Worshipful Master of my Mother lodge at one point. I was a Master I am now referred to as a past Master.

Sound advice, duly noted and appreciated. I would imagine this would stem from the belief of man's right to choice, and the (from what I gather) strong belief of Freemasonry in personal independence?

Yep, you got it in one.

billmcelligott,

Thanks for such clear cut responses. Let me go ahead and ask this question, which was originally posted to Leveller, but it was regarding your statement.

I'd assume that when one is in the position of WM, he presides over the whole lodge, and I guess would be the "Master of Ceremony" during ritual? Just wondering.


Thanks again for the detailed responses, look forward to hearing back from you.

TS

Originally posted by AGENT 007
I know some Masons and they all are the same they will give no information up I do know that most are rich or have power ties to the commiuty

Agent,

I'm not sure I understand. You're saying that the Mason's you know, in addition to these here are unwilling to give information to the "uninitiated"?

I can't speak to your experiences with any Masons you know personally, but I'd say that the Masons on this board have been very forthcoming with information.

Also I suppose you could mean that they are unwilling to divulge information on their fraternity's secrets and/or rituals/ceremony.

If that's the case, I can hardly fault them for that. From my research, Freemasonry is a group steeped in tradition, and it would seem that the majority of their members are happy to be a part of that tradition. What's more is that it seems that personal honor is of the utmost importance to these men, which I truly respect.

Having said that, would you say it'd be fitting for any Mason to have to divulge details of his fraternity to persons outside the fraternity? I mean why do you feel they should have to? If their tradition dictates that things remain secret, and each Mason is honor-bound to keep it that way, why would you ask them to compromise their integrity in the first place?

Just my thoughts on the matter, not trying to make you out to be a villain, just wondering why you expect information that you know is secret.


TS


P.S. Also I might as well add that if you're really interested in trying to find information about this fraternity in particular, there's many many resources available to you. I've been interested for several years now, and I can tell you that there is much information on the web(some true, some not so, be weary), as well a many very interesting books no further from you than most local libraries. If you're really interested in Freemasonry, I'd suggest both of the above sources. Can't promise you'll figure out many(if any) of their secrets, but their history and tradition, beliefs and goals are interesting nonetheless.

TS

[Edited on 30-5-2004 by TheSeeker]

Originally posted by TheSeeker


I'd assume that when one is in the position of WM, he presides over the whole lodge, and I guess would be the "Master of Ceremony" during ritual? Just wondering.

Here you go. Here's a link that describes the postion:

www.masonicinfo.com...

The Master is assisted in the Lodge by a lot of other brethren whom we call "officers". He also has a Director of Ceremonies to help him along with his duties.

Originally posted by AGENT 007
I know some Masons and they all are the same they will give no information up I do know that most are rich or have power ties to the commiuty

I apologize for your experience A7, and I hope that the shedding of Light (as TS has noted) in this forum gives the Craft a second chance. Perhaps you could tell us what country, state or province you are from, there are varying attitudes concerning Freemasonry (Freemasons have been persecuted), and this causes a conceal rather than reveal mentality.

Wow, I'm glad to see that no trolls have hidden under this bridge. Very good thread.

Its pretty scary how close my post would have been to this original post, and I was going to ask this today aswell. I'm in about the same place as TheSeeker about Masonary. Though my biggest consern is I don't know if I know any Masons. I know that we or people can be surprised by whom in our community is a Mason, since they don't advertise it.

My question would be,,,, First, How hard is it to join a lodge if I don't know any Masons? I know it's probably as easy as contacting them, but I want to be sure to go through the right channels. Second, what kind of things can I look foward to doing, since I don't have a Mason "to back me" per say?

All you need to do is post your state, province, or country and we'll point you in the right direction.

The best way to go about joining is to have a chat with your local Lodge secretary. Write a letter to him and explain who you are and put any questions you have in there. Hopefully, he will then arrange to meet you. Don't expect things to go at breakneck speed though - some of the people in the Lodge will probably want to get to know you first. You might get lucky and once your name is mentioned, somebody who is a mason might recognise you and contact you. Even if you have a proposer who is a mason it can still take a year or two to join over here in the UK.

So doesn't really matter if you have no proposer at the moment. When you join you will be doing exactly the same as anyone else who has joined. Just because you don't have a proposer does not mean that you will be treated any differently. The keyword is patience.

Heh. Of course, if you've got someone like MM willing to help you out, you're off to a good start already.

Originally posted by Darktalon
My question would be,,,, First, How hard is it to join a lodge if I don't know any Masons?

If you don�t personally know a Mason, you can visit your the Grand Lodge of your jurisdiction�s website. Most Grand Lodge websites have a page of the Lodges under their obedience, the Lodge�s address, and contact information. You can look up an officer in your nearest Lodge there, and email him your wish to discuss membership. I�m certain they�d be glad to hear from you.
If you cannot find contact information, send me a private message telling me what what city or town you�re in, and I�ll help locate someone in your area.

Second, what kind of things can I look foward to doing, since I don't have a Mason "to back me" per say?

Two members of the Lodge to which you apply for membership will have to sponsor you. Your Lodge�s Membership Committee will appoint a couple of Brothers to talk to you about the fraternity, and will likely sponsor you if meet the qualifications.

Fiat Lvx.

Thanks guys, I figured I was probably making more of a deal of it then I should have been. I understand about it taking time, which is fine by me, it just shows not any yahoo can just join . I do know of the 3 lodges in my area, though 2 of them did have websites, both are down now. I have the general contact numbers to each, but I'm going to PM you ML with my info, and if you have a more direct or better suggestion that would be great!

I'm going back to the days of my innocent little chilhood here - but my dad came home drunk one evening with a work mate (born in Italy and professional chess player). Apart from being allowed the odd sip of spirits and watch this guy play some amazing chess against my dad, I overheard quite alot of talk about past friends and colleges and what they were up to. Anyway, what I heard was - "Oh yeah X is a mason now...."

I asked my dad what a mason was the following day when he got home from work - and he basically told me everything he knew about it - albeit a small amount to him but a massive amount for me. It turns out X was a friend of my uncle Mick (Y) - who had 'arranged' for this guy X to join up to an elite club of secret members - who supposedly had ties and links to other rich people in the country - who in turn had even more powerful ties and so on - apparently to the very top of government.

It wasn't until I was 20 that I remembered to ask my uncle about the Masons. After listening to what sounded like airy fairy spiritual stuff for a while I announced loudly and confidently "And that's it?!" with which he replied "Yep, it's just a classy secret club where you can get to know some powerful people, but apart from that - it's all hype." Suffice to say - my uncle Mick didn't have the best of lives - and I hear he's now a very serious devil worshipper/satan lover (not a result of masonary by the way). He went looking for answers of faith and clarity - and found instead money and power.

So, suffice to say I did believe him. Everything he told me about this side of life seemed sincere - and I still believe to this day the only thing you can gain by becoming a mason is links and friends. All of the stuff about knowledge and finding yourself, to my knowledge, is all a front (maybe there are lodges out there with Xen monk type teachings and so on - but I very much doubt it). If only I hadn't been so full of it and listened to everything he was freely spilling out.

Please read your own post again. If you do you'll see the controdiction in it.

After listening to what sounded like airy fairy spiritual stuff for a while I announced loudly and confidently "And that's it?!" with which he replied "Yep, it's just a classy secret club where you can get to know some powerful people, but apart from that - it's all hype.".

Seems to me he explained more then a club where you get to know some powerful people. Or was the airy fairy part not your cup of tea? Seems you dismissed the stuff that you listened to for awhile, and went with the "it's all hype".

Originally posted by Masonic Light

In actual practice, though, the Master often defers the Chair to a subordinate during degree ceremonies. In my area, it is usual for the Junior Warden to preside over the First Degree, the Senior Warden to preside over the Second, and the Master to preside over the Third, although the Master can invite any Brother to preside in his presence. The purpose of this is to give other officers some experience in presiding and leadership.

This is actually different in our jurisdiction. Only a Master or Past Master can take over the chair. We have a seperate Master of Ceremonies position. The Master Controls the lodge and the Director of Ceremonies ensures that brethern stay on track during the ceremony and do everything correctly.

[Edited on 30-5-2004 by JCMinJapan]

Guys if your looking toward Masonry for any advantage in social status, Power, or Money , please don't waste your time.

If you wish to find the stregnth to improve your Character and make your spirit strong then walk in with an easy stride.

Originally posted by Darktalon

Seems to me he explained more then a club where you get to know some powerful people. Or was the airy fairy part not your cup of tea? Seems you dismissed the stuff that you listened to for awhile, and went with the "it's all hype".

This isn't how I came to the conclusion. I listened for a long time - and mostly out of respect - as I really did find what he was saying very strange. I'm sure you've all been there as well - talking to a drunk relative. As he went on and on (admitedly to my questions) it was all spiritual stuff - and although he seemed to be recalling pretty descriptive memories (he didn't name individual lines of thought or tell me where he used to meet these people or anything) it just all seemed like nonsense...like he'd have been better off living in Tibet atop a huge mountain for a few years. I'm not saying spirituality isn't my cup of tea - just that I couldn't understand what it's uses were in this high class club of his. I wanted to hear more darker tales - but there just arn't any...He openly admitted that he had been duped into a way of thinking.

My problem came about when I tried to get to the 'meat' of it too quickly - and lacking patience and in an attempt to hear more I challenged everything he had said "that's it?!". I was sort of hoping he'd say - well listen to this then you little whiper snapper, but no - he just concluded with telling me it's all basically an elite club for meeting for people and carried on getting pissed.

My dad tells me that there was a bit more going on there though - my uncle had ties through his girlfriend to an MP! His names not important is it? Anyway, it's these ties that actually got him in there. My uncle more or less immediately discovered that the teachings are all bull#. You basically move up a pecking order to qualify for stronger ties - but once a person gets caught up and 'addicted' to this - they go to any lengths to be successful, make more money and more powerful connections - and the 'club' are among those people to benefit from this.

The only purpose of the teachings is to decide who is ready to move up - who needs more time and so on. Also, it wasn't always those that took the teachings as gospel that rose through the ranks - people deemed never to be worthy of a higher status in life no matter what they did. These people often taught with such passion - they were doomed to always remain a 'teacher' as it were - and never a 'govenor'. Through my uncles connections he apparently went quite far - but because he new it was all bull# he made quite a few enemies - and guess what, they were all pretty rich enemies. Suffice to say he lost his girlfriend, his job and was kicked out of the 'club' following a heated arguement at one his meetings (where everyone was apparantly charged on coke as well).

All in all, I should've been more patient and listened more, but everything I've been told by family members - including my uncle who experienced it first hand - is that it's a farce. Sure, maybe you can make some important friends - but unless your wealthy or have some ties to begin with you're going nowhere fast and polluting your mind with useless rubbish.

Heh. Nice signature.
From the Protocols of Zion, isn't it?

Slim S. I.,

I'm sorry, but what you've written is absolute twaddle. Masonry (note, it's Masonry, NOT, "Masonary," as anyone who's had actual ties to the fraternity could tell you) has absolutely NOTHING to do with making connections. When a candidate is first admitted, they are required to swear on their honour that they are not joining Masonry out of mercenary motives. Men of all walks of life join Masonry, and you're just as likely to find a plumber or a pipefitter in your Lodge as you are to find a captain of industry. Not only that, but you're just as likely to find a plumber or pipefitter in a position of authority (although of course it is just as good to have "connections" with a good pipefitter or plumber, and often they know a whole lot more than a captain of industry). It is considered extraordinarily bad form to talk business during a Lodge meeting proper, and when people talk about their work during meals afterward, it's usually just a pretext to start a conversation.

If that's the impression your uncle gave you of Masonry, then, I'm sorry to say it, I suspect your uncle was not a very good Mason. But from the melodramatic description of how your uncle made "enemies of powerful men," I strongly suspect the whole argument is made up.

Sorry if I sound snippy, by the way... you are just part of an endless stream of liars and slanderers who have decided this board is the perfect place to air your disingenuous "theories" about Masonry.

Originally posted by Slim Suez Iron
talking to a drunk relative. As he went on and on (admitedly to my questions) it was all spiritual stuff - and although he seemed to be recalling pretty descriptive memories (he didn't name individual lines of thought or tell me where he used to meet these people or anything) it just all seemed like nonsense...like he'd have been better off living in Tibet atop a huge mountain for a few years. I'm not saying spirituality isn't my cup of tea - just that I couldn't understand what it's uses were in this high class club of his. I wanted to hear more darker tales - but there just arn't any...He openly admitted that he had been duped into a way of thinking.

The vague mysticism of Freemasonry rears its ugly head once more. Those descriptive memories could be (fill in the anti-Masonry drivel of choice), and now he has been duped (brainwashed). You wanted to hear darker tales, but you hope for someone to believe this tripe prevents further fabrication.

Originally posted by Slim Suez Iron
My dad tells me that there was a bit more going on there though - my uncle had ties through his girlfriend to an MP! His names not important is it?

Actually the name IS important, so are the charges of libel and slander... please elaborate on this persons identity.

Originally posted by Slim Suez Iron
Anyway, it's these ties that actually got him in there. My uncle more or less immediately discovered that the teachings are all bull#. You basically move up a pecking order to qualify for stronger ties - but once a person gets caught up and 'addicted' to this - they go to any lengths to be successful, make more money and more powerful connections - and the 'club' are among those people to benefit from this.

Yes, Freemasonry is only about power and money, being addicted to theses divine vices I (along with my similarly afflicted Brethren) can no longer contribute time, or money to the multitude of Masonic charities we formerly embraced.

Originally posted by Slim Suez Iron
The only purpose of the teachings is to decide who is ready to move up - who needs more time and so on. Also, it wasn't always those that took the teachings as gospel that rose through the ranks - people deemed never to be worthy of a higher status in life no matter what they did. they were doomed to always remain a 'teacher' as it were - and never a 'govenor'.

An oblique reference to the oft mentioned "Higher Ranking Masons", the remainder of the Craft left behind, ignorant of the dark designs of those "in the know" (which is the classic "OMG, he's a 33rd Degree Mason, hide the children").

Originally posted by Slim Suez Iron
but because he new it was all bull# he made quite a few enemies - and guess what, they were all pretty rich enemies. Suffice to say he lost his girlfriend, his job and was kicked out of the 'club' following a heated arguement at one his meetings (where everyone was apparantly charged on coke as well).

Here's the most entertaining part, "Our Hero", realizing his folly has a epiphany (Lodge Room Catharsis), and is banished from Olympus by the Gods (who happen to be having a July snow party). The only dealing that ever goes on in Lodges, is from a deck of cards, Masons are consumers of potable spirits, not drugs.

Originally posted by Slim Suez Iron
but unless your wealthy or have some ties to begin with you're going nowhere fast and polluting your mind with useless rubbish.

I have no idea about Freemasonry, but since I have no future, and I can't fathom the intellectual aspects, I expect universal derision from all.

Hope I didn't miss anything, I'm usually pretty thorough. I suggest a foray into the NWO forum, perhaps they are more gullible?