Can children go to Hell?

I hate to say it, but kids go to hell all the time. I was one of them.

Anytime a child is taught to forsake their own spirit and/or creativity, their life is made more hellish. As vividly as fire-and-brimstone preachers have tried to portray the underworld, hell is the world where humanity must live in the meantime, disconnected from nature (kicked out of the garden, so to speak) until this creation cycle is finished and we can begin a new one.

So to day one is going to hell when they die may simply mean they'll reincarnate without psychic wi-fi (like most of us live today) and so fear and threat of pain and suffering is their guide.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by johnsequitur1221]

[edit on 20-2-2010 by johnsequitur1221]

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


Hell belongs to the boogeyman. It is fictional, designed to instill guilt and fear in order to control your behavior. Sometimes this sort of thing is helpful to society, for instance Thou Shalt Not Kill is a pretty good rule to live by but then other rules, about eating pig or shellfish or using bad language are lumped in with the same thing as killing... How can someone go to Hell for such things? The answer is they can't...

A kid who doesn't realize what they are doing can't go to Hell. Just like Adam and Eve who were entirely ignorant to evil shouldn't have been able to be punished for it (yet we all know how angry God got in the story despite the fact he's the one who put the tree there in the first place and he's the one who wasn't paying attention to whether there were any talking snakes in the Garden)... So no even if Hell was real I don't think kids could go there..

Something I've yet to understand that somewhat related to this as it falls into the same category.

First up Christians from my understanding believe that the age when a child is capable of being responsible for his or her own actions varies between children, some it happened early in childhood, and others it happens much later, it just depends on the mental development.

But regardless on when that happens I believe that they all agree that for a certain somewhat lengthy period of time in adolescence a child cant be held accountable for sin because they cannot understand it yet.

Now taking this belief in mind, aside from their own conscience consider the relation between this "period" where children aren't accountable for sin, and abortion.

Abortion is seen by Christians to be the worst thing ever. and yet it happens during a period when

1. Self awareness does not exist.
2. Punishment for sin cannot be applied because that "child?" "died" before the age of accountability.

Another excuse often used to justify the pro life cap is when they apply their current situation and remove that variable from their current life.

ex: "I cant imagine not having (insert person here) in my life" or "I cant imagine aborting my child because I love him so much"

And That's nice and all but you can't look at it that way, you can't apply a current time line with one that never happened, meaning you can't base your current experiences of someone and look at them as if they suddenly disappeared, because if those people were aborted then you would have never made those relationships or bonds, they would have never happened and you would have never known them, so all the "experiences" that you would "miss" if you lost them wouldn't apply.

And strangely, the "gods plan" excuse seems to only apply when it benefits the Christians argument.

Now applying the "sin" aspect to it all, an aborted fetus seems to be getting a pretty good deal, a life without sin and an instant ticket to heaven.

Luke 18:16-17, Jesus remarked: “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God. Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

John 3:18
"He that believeth on Him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the Name of the only begotten Son of God" John 3:18

I dont imagine that a baby has the mental capacity to reject God/Jesus. Like i previously posted, it boils down to that moment that one understands, accepts or rejects. In simple terms.

This is topic that can be argued at great length, i have yet to find anything that supports the "age of accountability" theory. But im doin some research, will post what i find.

Since we're quoting the Bible now, and note that I did not start with the quoting, if the Bible is true, whether they can go to HEAVEN depends on whether they have been baptised.
John 3:5

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Jesus replied, "I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

International Standard Version (©2008)
Jesus answered, "Truly, I tell you with certainty, unless a person is born of water and Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus answered Nicodemus, "I can guarantee this truth: No one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.

King James Bible
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

American King James Version
Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

American Standard Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

Douay-Rheims Bible
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Darby Bible Translation
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except any one be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

English Revised Version
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say to thee, Except a man be born of water, and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Weymouth New Testament
"In most solemn truth I tell you," replied Jesus, "that unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

World English Bible
Jesus answered, "Most certainly I tell you, unless one is born of water and spirit, he can't enter into the Kingdom of God!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe Jesus made an exception for the repentant thief. Or maybe the thief died before Jesus and therefore fell under the old law where baptism wasn't necessary. The above Bible verse is of course New Testament and supercedes what went before.

The Bible clearly says water. It also says spirit but no one knows if someone else has that and anyway the two are both of them necessary.

If they have not repented before death, perhaps they are not born of the spirit. If they have repented, or not realized what they were doing, maybe they are. And baptism alone is not enough. But without BOTH of those things, children, no matter how good they were in life, are DAMNED for all time. The Bible is quite clear about that.

There is no busslhit about children not being of an age or being S.A.F.E safe in the arms of God as certain anabaptists do vainly boast.

By the way, that also applies to all pagans, however moral, who have died never having had the chance to hear the Gospel. They too are DAMNED and will be cast into the Lake of Fire where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

By the way, I am not a christian, because I refuse to worship such a monster. Just thought that you should know the biblical truth, such as it is.

[edit on 22/2/2010 by christianpatrick]

Originally posted by Psychonaughty
reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

 

There is no hell, that is created to induce fear.

Fear is unimportant.

No matter what you do in this life time or the last, all experiences and actions are equally beautiful and a gift to the One Creator that you are.

All entities are loved unconditionally no matter what the circumstances.

Right I understand your point and it is very well expressed. short and simple yet very meaningful, thank you for your post

reply to post by christianpatrick


Jesus also said 'there will be those who call me 'lord, lord' and I shall tell them that I never knew them but there will be those who never heard of me who shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

Does Jesus contradict himself?

Originally posted by huntin4fact

This is topic that can be argued at great length, i have yet to find anything that supports the "age of accountability" theory. But im doin some research, will post what i find.

Whilst I am now Christian and could be described as born again, my path has not been a traditional Christian one and I was once an astrologer.

In astrology, Saturn, the planet of limitations and responsibility (simplified synopsis), returns to the exact position in the individual star chart as it was at the time of birth of the individual, known as the Saturn Return, at around 29-30yrs.

Jupiter, the planet of expansion, returns to the same position at around 12 years.

It has always fascinated me that Jesus entered the temple and began teaching at 12, only to be protected by his mother and ushered out, and then we hear nothing of his life until he is 30!

As astrology also relates to the ages of Man (with the cosmic-astro clock working anti-clockwise) and not just the life of the individual (where the cosmic-astro clock works clockwise), it fascinates me further that Jesus's time is/was the age of Pisces, a water sign that signifies sacrifice.

Originally posted by cjcord
I believe a child of 6 absolutely knows the difference between gentle play and dangerous play. A child of 4, I feel may be faultless, but 6? That child knows better than to put their hands on someone else, no matter the reason. Or should, if the parent has done their job.

Agreed! "if the parent has done their job." so now i speak on behalf of the children that may have not had parents that were commited to doing the job right, and the children that had to learn things the hard way. As you know... there are usually always exceptions.

Originally posted by cjcord
The child is at fault. If a child of grade school age knows not to hit others, than they certainly have no excuse at 11. They may not have meant to kill anyone, but they most certainly knew they would hurt them. They made a decision to consciously hurt someone.

True... yet allow the child to mature into a man. As he developes mentally, maybe he will eventually realize and face the severity of his actions and become truly remorseful. He is haunted by this event and constantly contimplates taking his own life to justify the life he has taken. He lives everyday of his life, knowing that event took place in his childhood and was not a dream, and he knows now (as an adult) that it will never be changed... To me that is hell.

do you agree?

You speak of your children, so you are more than aware of a childs mind that will seek instant gratification and may not think their intentions all the way through. But to make a mistake as big as this one, do you feel they deserve a second chance?

Originally posted by cjcord
The bullies because teenagers are cruel and they know it. They just don't care. EX:Phoebe Prince

The teens involved even went so far as to continue their bullying after the girl's suicide, on her memorial page. As of today, the girls involved have no remorse, and are continuing their lives bullying new people.

The child is also at fault- in that they obviously did not have a strong enough structure of support to feel they had any other options. They may have felt cornered, or helpless, or hopeless. I feel this is a mental issue, which should be addressed.

Of course teens can be cruel, or they can be benevolent, some are more mature than others, but they are KIDS and as kids, many fear standing out and fall victom to "group think."

Personally, I know i am not that same arrogant jock i was in high school and often look back and laugh at the ignorance of my behavior. I was actually a very shy, smart, and timid guy, yet put on a 'show off' facade to simply fit in. and its funny to me now because i am strongly against having such a childish mindset, but thats exactly what it is "childish". My point being people can change if they choose to.

"As of today, the girls involved have no remorse, and are continuing their lives bullying new people."

I read the article and am a little curious as how you got to this generalization

Originally posted by cjcord
The person they got the gun from- is this even in question?

No, just put there to open the mind to different possible characters within the scenario which you have considered and replied to very well i might add

Originally posted by cjcord
I am of the belief that repenting for your deliberate actions is a ridiculous idea. If you made a conscious choice to do something, you have to deal with it. There is no easy "Father forgive me, I'll do better". That's BS.

I see you used the word "deliberate" and because of that word, I agree with your comment and feel myself that it is indeed BS.
but... what if these actions that appear deliberate to you actually appear as ignorance from another. who decides what qualifies as ignorance, and when does "ignorance" actually become sin?

Originally posted by cjcord
Sure, do better, feel sorry for what you did, do good deeds- but why would someone think that makes up for deliberately choosing to end someone's life? It doesn't. And believing you're spotless and have made reparations is delusional. A mistake is a mistake- but a deliberate choice is just that. There is no making up for choosing to hurt someone.

there goes that deliberate word again... Agreed somewhat

Originally posted by cjcord
There is coming back from not knowing any better- but those who don't know right from wrong are few and far between. But that excuse is used often. Karma's a bitch, despite how you may try to avoid it.

Agreed

That excuse is used often but just like all the people in jail that say they aren't guilty, what about the 1 that is actually telling the truth? He becomes buried under the voices of thousands of others and lost in a generalization. I speak for him.

I would like to thank you for taking the time to read, understand, and reply to my thread. I very much enjoyed the conversation and agree with a lot of what you are saying, know that i am just playing devil's advocate to braoden my own perspective.

thanx for your post much appreciated

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Hell belongs to the boogeyman. It is fictional, designed to instill guilt and fear in order to control your behavior. Sometimes this sort of thing is helpful to society, for instance Thou Shalt Not Kill is a pretty good rule to live by but then other rules, about eating pig or shellfish or using bad language are lumped in with the same thing as killing... How can someone go to Hell for such things? The answer is they can't...

Agreed, i learned from someone else on this thread that it is better to follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of it, but it seems thats the only way those ridiculous earmark laws can get passed through

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
A kid who doesn't realize what they are doing can't go to Hell. Just like Adam and Eve who were entirely ignorant to evil shouldn't have been able to be punished for it (yet we all know how angry God got in the story despite the fact he's the one who put the tree there in the first place and he's the one who wasn't paying attention to whether there were any talking snakes in the Garden)... So no even if Hell was real I don't think kids could go there..

Interesting point, and great analogy. That makes sense to me

thanx for your post

Originally posted by huntin4fact
I dont imagine that a baby has the mental capacity to reject God/Jesus. Like i previously posted, it boils down to that moment that one understands, accepts or rejects. In simple terms.

This is topic that can be argued at great length, i have yet to find anything that supports the "age of accountability" theory. But im doin some research, will post what i find.

Agreed. I don't believe babies to be liable for what they do (poop, eat, sleep, cry, and poop some more) and i specifically exclude babies from the op and only refer to older children. I am also yet to find an appropriate age where ignorance becomes sin and i am starting to accept the fact that this figure is undefined and based solely on the mental maturity of that particular individual, yet how can we apply a standard to the range of individuality

be sure to post when you figure that one out

thanx for your reply

Originally posted by christianpatrick
Since we're quoting the Bible now, and note that I did not start with the quoting

Noted

Originally posted by christianpatrick
if the Bible is true, whether they can go to HEAVEN depends on whether they have been baptised.
John 3:5

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
...

I'm not even going to quote all your other sources, i think this will suffice

but here is one that has been brought up several times throughout the thread to counter yours

"Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
Matthew 19:14

What do you make of this? Were the children he's speaking of all been baptized?

Originally posted by christianpatrick
By the way, that also applies to all pagans, however moral, who have died never having had the chance to hear the Gospel. They too are DAMNED and will be cast into the Lake of Fire where there is weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth.

By the way, I am not a christian, because I refuse to worship such a monster. Just thought that you should know the biblical truth, such as it is.

I understand your view, and see why you believe what you believe. Interesting perspective.

thanx for your reply

[edit on 22-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

[edit on 22-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by christianpatrick

 

Jesus also said 'there will be those who call me 'lord, lord' and I shall tell them that I never knew them but there will be those who never heard of me who shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

Does Jesus contradict himself?

Can you refer me to this passage in the bible?

*edit*

christianpatrick seems to have answered already. Disregard this post


[edit on 22-2-2010 by H4W4II4N_PUNCH]

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 5-7, The Sermon on the Mount.

Hope this helps! I'm not normally one for quoting chapter and verse as I think that in the modern world, where we are all capable of critical thought, bible bashers are counter productive.

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH

 

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 5-7, The Sermon on the Mount.

Hope this helps! I'm not normally one for quoting chapter and verse as I think that in the modern world, where we are all capable of critical thought, bible bashers are counter productive.

Teapot, actually, it's Matthew 7:21. And that says nothing about people who have never heard of him.

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


""Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."
Matthew 19:14"

Are you saying that grownups can't go to heaven?

What Jesus meant is that in order to get into heaven, you have to have the unquestioning faith that a child has. You have to buy the whole bill of goods. You aren't allowed to think about it or ask questions.

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH



First of all, only those who believe, and give power to, actually goes to Hell. Children do know know how to form religious belief yet at such an early age. Another thing is, you are assigning things in a strict black and white world, and anyone knows this world is various shades of gray. There is no right or wrong here, those are human concepts. Believe it or not, some souls incarnate here just to kill someone and go to prison. I do not pretend to know the ends and outs of the Karmic Code, but I do know it exists, and that it applies to all. So, short answer, no.

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by christianpatrick

 

Jesus also said 'there will be those who call me 'lord, lord' and I shall tell them that I never knew them but there will be those who never heard of me who shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

Does Jesus contradict himself?

Matthew 7:21-23
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matthew 10:32-33
King James Bible
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

If they are prophesying in His name and casting out devils in His name, they ae certainly not denying him before men. So the answer to your question is "Yes"

[edit on 22/2/2010 by christianpatrick]

reply to post by H4W4II4N_PUNCH


Everyone who believes in hell will go to hell. 12 gods or no god, if you need to live your life worrying about some non-existent fiery pit in order to behave yourself in this life, you deserve to go to whatever it is you're worried about. Simple as that. Children included.

Such fairy tales are getting more and more common here on ATS. What is with these soft-thought, faith-based question influx on ATS?

Also, this is not "Psychology, Philosophy and Metaphysics". This is a "Conspiracy in Religions" topic.

The question is about going to hell, a christian and moslem concept. And no, jews do not have a hell. Yes, I know that some buddhists and other non christian peoples have a concept of "hell" too but that is not pertinent to the question at hand. At my asian grocery they sell "Hell money" that you can send the people in the asian hell to spend, so it's not the same thing at all.

If we are talking about the christian version of hell, then we should go by the christian source. Many of you are reading things into the Bible that are not there. And ignoring the plain words that are there. Just because we think that God is too nice to send babies to hell doesn't mean that God thinks He is too nice to send babies to hell. ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Romans 3:23
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God"

All includes babies.