My expiriences from 10 and up, page 74

reply to post by woodwytch

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I was just going to go off on this poster too. Then I saw your angry response, and Phoenix's funny picture, and your comical response here and realized it's just not worth it. If someone takes the time to familiarize themselves with Shadow and his antics, accusations, claims, and general disinformation regime that person would know perfectly well why we use the techniques and tactics that we do to try and cull him out of his hiding places.

It's not about anger, or insulting him, or taking away/granting special privileges. It's about holding him accountable for the things he has said, done, and claimed. If Shadow thinks he should be allowed to slide in and make such claims and then slip away easily, he's wrong. And anyone who thinks it should be that way has a warped sense of equilibrium and people in general. No one is more or less deserving of accountability for their actions and claims.

Just my slightly embittered opinion though.

Luckily everyone's laughing now, so it's all better!

~ Scribe

reply to post by woodwytch

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The only contact I ever had with Shadow was his reply to my post (which I linked for you a while back). I had come across two threads of his on another forum and was aware of his medical condition before reading his thread here.

I do not believe for one second that he deserves special treatment when breaching the T&C, anymore than anyone else does; but I can see, rereading my post, how you came to this conclusion.

My motivation for speaking up is not sympathy, so easily taken advantage of, but empathy: empathy for his need to make stuff up and have others validate it. Whatever other underlying factors might cause his flights into extreme fantasy, his need to escape seems understandable to me. I don't condone his manipulative behaviour and agree that he should be called up on it at every turn. In fact, I think it is salutary. If you think I disagree with his being banned after his impromptu sock-puppet show, you are mistaken.

What I did object to was the blatant attempt to make him give himself away by baiting him (if you thought he was dodging his ban, why didn't you report him? Maybe it's not as satisfying).

You don't want him to get special treatment, yet you give him special treatment by laying down some silly trap on his own thread. You justify your baiting (also known as trolling) by claiming he shouldn't get away with breaching the T&C, yet your very posts are a breach of T&C: trolling and forum ganging.
(Personally, the only time I'd press the alert button is if someone sent me a photo of a Mafioso sliding his finger across his own throat while staring at me intently. I believe most forum conflicts can be resolved through talking it out.)

Shadow is responsible for his intent to trick you (by getting info on you and claiming some mystical connection) but is he responsible for your falling for it?
He is responsible for revealing a concept in your book without your permission and taking credit for it but is he responsible for your trusting someone over the internet with copyrighted material?
If anything, you have him to thank for making you a little less naive and gullible on the net.

I'm not privy to any drama behind the scenes but I don't need to be. If he's in breach, report him. If he's not, leave him be.

PS to Wandering Scribe: On the subject of being brought into account for making wild claims, there's a guy right now on a thread Shadow frequents who's claiming to be god. Why don't you take him on?

reply to post by jeanvaljean

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Well, just from the tone of your post I'm guessing we're never going to agree on the 'Shadow senario' ... but I do find it interesting from a psychological perspective that you point out my failings, as you see them ... and you also point out and agree to his failings ... and yet you condemn me for pointing them out ... but defend him for making them (very strange).

Where I come from that's called double standards

First time I've ever been called a 'troll' by the way ... made me smile ... just out of curiosity ... what would you call 'Shadow' (poor victim / young and innocent / not responsible for his own actions) serious question ?

And in reply to what you said about it being a good idea / necessary ... for him to retreat into a world of make believe to help the poor guy forget about his nasty reality ... are you serious ?

If you are that my friend is a pretty alarming statement.

In my opinion and clientry experience escapism from reality can have devastating results !

You seem to be forgetting that for a long time most of us were offering him help and advise with the spiritual development he claimed to seek ... and he would take it with one hand ... then throw it back ... and seemed to prefer his non-reality ... trust me this is not a healthy way to be ... and it can be the early symptoms of something much more serious ... but this is not the place for that discussion.

So please do not paint me (or Pheonix and Scribe) ... or indeed anyone else who questioned his claims as the bad guys or the bullies ... we are anything but ! You only have to see how long this thread is and note the fact that over ALL of those pages a MOD has never once stepped in to say we were treating him wrong in any way ... you seem to forget that these threads are constantly monitored ... so I'm sure over all this time and all these pages any wrong-doing would have been picked-up on.

And thanks to Shadow starting this thread in the first place ... I have met some very kind ... very spiritual people ... unfortunately Shadow turned away from that and that is his choice.

BTW ... He is keeping an eye on this thread still (but I'm pretty sure you already knew that), because I received a message from him on Windows this very morning saying that he liked what I said in my post ... but he would not be returning to the thread because (and I quote the gist of his message) 'The 'Council' were keeping him busy with something or other because something big was about to happen and they were all preparing to leave'.

And yet strangely enough he has had plenty of time to post on the Hidden Hand Thread ... same old stuff just the new name ... it would seem the guy just doesn't want to learn and move forward ... or enjoy the fun of reality (much much better than a silly comic book realm) ... but y'know what they say ... you can lead a horse to water ...

And I hope you realize that it is not the fact that he prefers fantast to reality ... for goodness sake he has freewill to choose whatever path he likes ... it is the fact that he seriously and willfully tried to fool us and blatently lie about it ... that my friend is why people are against him !

I have said all I have to say about that subject so please don't be offended if you continue the subject in another post and I choose to ignore it ... it will be ignored not out of defeat ... just boredom.

But just to show I have no problem with you personally please (in Pheonix stylie) accept this;

[/url]

Woody

Originally posted by TheDebunkMachine
Can you give us the thread link? Also, im far more worried about unity than shadow, Unity is what, 40 years old and has kids, and she adamantly believes and spews this crap, i fear for her children.

'Hidden Hand Message' thread; www.abovetopsecret.com...

... from what I can make out it doesn't seem like they are very friendly any more ... the young one seems to have latched on to a member called Adonoi(something or other) ... basically the one who seems to think he is God (I $h!t you not) ... it might be easiest to start at the end and skim back a couple dozen pages ... rather than try to start at the very beginning (most of it is mind-numbing stuff).

It was quite an eye opener for me to realize there are so many deluded people on here alone ... you have to see it to believe it.

Woody

reply to post by woodwytch

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I absolutely LOVE those pics that are showing up on this thread, from you and Phoenix. Priceless. I have a little black cat myself, but she's scary when she's perturbed. I could easily see her doing battle. I also actually had a cat years ago named Battlecat

reply to post by snowspirit

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I discovered the 'cheezeburger cats' some time ago and because I also have a cat and a dog I think they are hilarious. Pheonix reminded me about them when she posted one on here.

I have a little collection that I plan on using at appropriate time ... this I believe is an appropriate time so here ... have this;



Woody

reply to post by woodwytch

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Adonoi? really...? Thats just adonai in a yiddishy accent.

reply to post by woodwytch

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DO NOT READ THIS POST!


I know you won't bother reading or answering this because you find the subject boring but maybe you'll glance quickly this way, so just in case...

No, I don't think escapism is a good idea but I understand the need for it. I also understand someone's need to eat an entire packet of Fig Rolls rather than face a distressing feeling; it doesn't mean I advocate it or encourage it. Frankly though, without going into it too much, I've seen the same attempts to tug at Shadow's kite string to bring him back to earth on that other forum fail miserably. I don't think whatever the problem is can be reasoned out.
But then again, what do I know? I'm not a past life regression therapist. Feel free to roll your eyes at my layman presumption right here.

Trolling on the internet, as far as I remember, can be defined as the act of saying something to elicit a certain reaction, which you admitted was your intent. And there were four posters against one.

Yet again, my problem is not the telling off, it's the telling off without the ability to respond. Why not express all that to his face? Then he can answer back. Of course, as his new account turns out to be legal, the whole thing is moot at this stage.

Thank you for not reading my post and not answering it. Let me tell you, it was so boring to write that I fell asleep halfway through.

PS: I have absolutely nothing against you, Scribe or Phoenix. In fact, I became aware of the three of you on this very thread and put you on my mental list of interesting posters. I guess I was disappointed at what looked to me like three adults ganging up on a kid with the kid not able to talk back.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST!

reply to post by jeanvaljean

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PS to Wandering Scribe: On the subject of being brought into account for making wild claims, there's a guy right now on a thread Shadow frequents who's claiming to be god. Why don't you take him on?

Well, for one thing every man and woman is capable of Godhood. Such is a part of Buddhist, Qabalistic, Satanic, and theosophical literature. All four of which are practices I partake of. So, claiming to be a god? I don't have a problem with that.

I am a god also. I serve a god. I dated and loved a god. I watched a god die. I've been in service to a resurrected god for 7 years now. We're all gods. You, myself, Phoenix, Woody, Aidan, even Shadow and Unity. Every single man, woman, animal, and insect.

Now, if this other poster were claiming to be THE God, and that all other gods were false, wrong, and really some kind of anti-god... then I might have to head on over and remind him that if a THE God existed it would not be a greedy, close-minded, immature, bigoted individual who could not work with a group.

If this is the case, feel free to link me to a post wherein such claims are made. As I am just one guy who works 40 hours a week, write for a living, teaches spiritual practices, and lives with his family I cannot scour every article posted every day on this giant forum.

I do my best though.

I know you won't bother reading or answering this because you find the subject boring but maybe you'll glance quickly this way, so just in case

I definitely glanced, and, hopefully you and Woody will pardon my intrusion on this subject matter, but...

Trolling on the internet, as far as I remember, can be defined as the act of saying something to elicit a certain reaction

Words, by their very nature, do this. Saying that something is vile, despicable, dishonest, devious and worthy of appalling refutation will elicit a response that the thing is somehow unworthy of good graces. Now, if I said that homosexuality was the thing then it is obvious my comment is meant to elicit a response... however, that response will differ depending on who reads my comment.

If you are in agreement with my stance then you will find my comment uplifting and a breath of fresh air. If, however, you find my comment bigoted, sexist, and unclean you will find my statement to be, well, exactly what my statement says.

In this manner, everyone is a troll. Which is not the truth. Poking and prodding at Shadow is not done by myself (or Phoenix and Woody I am sure) as a means of winding him up. I challenge his closed-minded views in the hopes of opening him up to a world of experiences he has never ventured into before. Phoenix does her best to keep everyone honest so that slander and misinterpretation are not the ring-leaders of the information being spread. And Woody, like so many other posters on here offers additional viewpoints, information, and life experience as she is older and more experienced than myself for a fact, and possibly Phoenix as well.

It's not trolling because it is done with the intention of helping Shadow.

* SELF-NOTE *

I have absolutely no problem with homosexuality. I frequently attend rallies, have dated homosexuals, and have as a majority among my friends gays/lesbians/bis. It was used as an example, not an autobiographical note

* SELF NOTE *

Yet again, my problem is not the telling off, it's the telling off without the ability to respond. Why not express all that to his face? Then he can answer back

I have never denied Shadow, or Unity, or any other of his associates, the ability to communicate with me. In fact, Unity, and LaurenVirgo have both had extended U2U discussions with me. I post here because the intention is not to lure Shadow out, or make him blow his top. My intention is to respond and keep this thread alive.

Why?

Because of what has been said and claimed on here. This is a wealth of alien information, misinformation, prophecy, slander, and corruption via spiritual and magickal and philosophical means. In my eyes the greater crime is not exposing another puppet account of Shadow. It is letting false-flag fear-mongering, false prophecy, deliberate disinformation, and claims of greatdom be allowed to sink away into the ether.

A thread like this is vital for the skeptical community as it shows how far the misinformation, lies, double-talk, slander, and ignorance can ascend. I continue to post as a public service to those who encounter people akin to what Shadow and Unity did on this thread. Not for the sake of reaching Shadow or Unity again.

They will come back if they desire. If not, they will continue to hide amongst their circle of yes-men.

---

Anyway,

I don't have a problem with you, Jeanvaljean. I actually quite enjoy reading what you've posted here. Whether we come to terms or agreement or not, I don't foresee myself disregarding your posts now, or in the future. I can only hope you'd offer me the same courtesy.

Best of luck to you,

~ Scribe

reply to post by woodwytch

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I've used both of those before

Originally posted by jeanvaljean
reply to post by woodwytch

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PS: I have absolutely nothing against you, Scribe or Phoenix. In fact, I became aware of the three of you on this very thread and put you on my mental list of interesting posters. I guess I was disappointed at what looked to me like three adults ganging up on a kid with the kid not able to talk back.

As I quite like your posts on the LoO thread The thing is, he's an adult yet and wants to be treated as such, yet plays the "I'm just a kid and a victim" just a few times too often, mostly when someone disagree's with him. Yes he's been through a lot, but then so have the majority of people. Believe it or not, my intent was not to "lure him out" and as Woody has said he has made it clear to both of us that he is still reading it.

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by jeanvaljean

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Now, if this other poster were claiming to be THE God, and that all other gods were false, wrong, and really some kind of anti-god... then I might have to head on over and remind him that if a THE God existed it would not be a greedy, close-minded, immature, bigoted individual who could not work with a group.

He claims to be Jesus.

- Phoenix

reply to post by phoenix_zephyr

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Are we talking solar personification of pagan astro-theological attributes Jesus... Or, are we talking right-wing fundamentalist, fire-and-brimstone, "Me, me, me!" Jesus? Or, is it some schmuck who doesn't know Jesus from Krishna and is just using the name of the most common deity?

Some links would be nice so I can go see what this guy's saying

~ Scribe

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

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Merging with the being that is Jesus and if you don't listen to him then you're going to be "reset back to the 1st density" aka another version of fire and brimstone hell. He's of the opinion that his experiences are real and that everyone else is being lied to by "archons". Says he was one of the masters from the emerald tablets of thoth.

* Goes find some quotes *

Originally posted by AdonaiChristBless
We are far more developed soul than all of you this is why it is so difficult for you to understand these concepts we are presenting, it is akin to a modern day Quantum physicist speaking to a Neanderthal, they do not have the basis of knowledge and wisdom to understand the concepts presented, you havnt shown me anything above a 3rd density understanding in any of your posts.

So since you show us no potentional in learning at present we leave you to learn the hard way, eh-yeh asher eh-yeh.

Ah ha! Found it.

We are the Quorum of Adonai Christ, the second coming is connected to our presence on earth we are merging with ourself as the wave approaches and while this occurs we are on mission to increase the productivity of the harvest to maximise 'Ascension' our goal is to free souls by helping them develop their complexs so that they have the means to utilise the wave. It is a hyper-dimensional state of awareness in which many aspects that are part of the Christ consciousness are interlinked sharing a telepathic bond to exchange information in form of harmonics-light-geometry as well as guidence given by the universe in concidences designed to awaken different stages of memory coded within DNA.

On topic of the harvest there is going to be people who are not ready to progress they will indeed be repeating from the beginning of the time cycle once more in it primordial beginning this has been represented as 'Lake of Fire' in which is matter in it beginning stages as it exists in a heated plasma known as primordial matter, this is the first experience of consciousness and it known as the 1st density. These same people will experience a short period of suffering that will occur due to ignorance and choices which created consequences, these events are karma and those who it occur to deserve it 'It will be darkest before the dawn' you must remain strong through what is to come.

- Phoenix

reply to post by phoenix_zephyr

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I think, since I have a rare day off tomorrow, I may just have to go and give this thread, and user, a visit. Thank you for showing me the quotes. Could you link me to the thread too, please? I'd like to get a feel for what they've been discussing over there. Thanks

~ Scribe

Clicky

- Phoenix

reply to post by phoenix_zephyr

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Thank you, m'lady. I have entered the fray, right after a response from you on there, oddly enough. I notice old standby's like Unity also congregate in this thread. I fear I may be in over my head. Magician's Apprentice, Unity, Adonai, ET Man... I shall do my best to instigate reason and reality back into this maze of petty bigotry, narcissism, egoism and blind zealots.

And I get to tell stories of a pseudo-Buddhist, pseudo-scientific, pseudo-spiritual nature! Hooray!

~ Scribe

reply to post by OrionTri

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Welcome back, Orion

Good to see you on the thread again. I had some reservations about the layout as well at first. However, with added use I am finding I enjoy it quite a bit as I feel it offers more clarity and opportunity for editing and working with what you're writing/posting. To each their own though. The layout changes did throw me off for a bit at first, even if I did know that they were coming.

I look forward to more posts from you, I'll have to dig around your profile and see where you're posting these days.

Interesting to see that Shadow picked you as his in-between-man. At least we know he's still reading and contemplating responses. I'll go ahead and reply to the portion of his soliloquy directed at me:

I am forth willing to work together and put forth equal ideas from both sides, as we have discussed before there is much more important matters at hand. Thus I am now willing to listen and understand many things you can share with me or teach me. So both men shall meet as equals for one may know things that either one knows, in this case both men will treat each other as equals. I am from now on in much gratitude to you my friend ^_^

With Respect
Shadow

Nice to see that you've come down out of the clouds to join the rest of us mortals here on planet Earth. How exactly, though, do you plan on carrying out this equal correspondence on ATS seeing as the last we'd heard of you, you had been banned for puppet-accounting.

As always, I'm willing to work with any student who approaches me and offers the dedication necessary, and the will to also seek their own path. I'm not an answer-man, just a guy who's had a lot of experience. And from that experience is born the simple truth that the basics can be taught, but eventually everyone has to find their own way.

Anyway,

Welcome back to the thread (kind of), Shadow.

~ Scribe

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