Obama wants to out our military!

SInce this rule started they have kicked out enough gays to fill an aircraft carrier. 400 have been kicked out since Obama took over. I too would stand and fight with them against a real threat. Nothing will be done about this encouragment to make soldiers lie for 1 year.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
If you haven't read Animal Farm, read it. Immediately.

I concur...it is at least as important a book as 1984.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Which is ridiculous. Sounds like those who claim that gays want "special rights"... I'd like to know what special rights they're asking for.

Just wait until the Base Legal and the IG get the complaints, "My supervisor was mean to me and made me buff the floors. He was picking on me because I'm gay." And away we go.

And if you don't think it will happen, you're fooling yourself.

And a quick note to everyone: Please stop comparing this to Nazi Germany or racial problems with blacks intergrating into the military. That just cheapens yourself and your beliefs. Emotion trumping reason.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
If you haven't read Animal Farm, read it. Immediately.

I concur...it is at least as important a book as 1984.

F**kin' A, Bubba. "Animal Farm" and "1984" were "must reads" when I was in junior high school.

Originally posted by jerico65
Just wait until the Base Legal and the IG get the complaints, "My supervisor was mean to me and made me buff the floors. He was picking on me because I'm gay."

So, you think gay people are whiners and don't want to do the job they signed up for and will use their sexual orientation as an excuse to get out of work... OK.

Please stop comparing this to Nazi Germany or racial problems with blacks intergrating into the military.

How is it different than blacks integrating into the military?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So, you think gay people are whiners and don't want to do the job they signed up for and will use their sexual orientation as an excuse to get out of work... OK.

I don't recall saying "all gay people are whiners" but I won't stop you from believing that.

But, it will happen. I will bet you any amount of money that the IG will get complaints just like that. It happened in the 90's with a bunch of women in the AF.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
How is it different than blacks integrating into the military?

It is nothing like desegregation. Homosexual is not a race. When you can prove it is genetic my attitude will change.

Not one military that has done this is as good as it was before. There is zero evidence that "it works and everything is ok".

This is not going to work any better than "integrating females" has. And anybody that thinks that worked is deluding themselves or full of #e.

Having the defining characteristic as sexuality is detrimental to military service.

What are you going to say when members of your regiment are marching in homosexual pride parades in uniform. And it by God will happen.

You are advocating. Homosexuality is detrimental to military service. Per act of Congress. Period.

I don't care who you rub up against as a civilian. Couldn't care less. I don't even care who you rub up against on your time. But when you start causing people to think about other things than their jobs, you are a f**king detriment. And it's not just homosexuals. F**king adultery should be punishable by hanging.

Originally posted by jerico65
Having the defining characteristic as sexuality is detrimental to military service.

I would venture to suggest that it is folks such as yourself that feel the need to define others by their sexuality, and that gays would just prefer it to be a non-issue. Not one to hide, nor to have to take 'friendly' fire over.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I would venture to suggest that it is folks such as yourself that feel the need to define others by their sexuality, and that gays would just prefer it to be a non-issue. Not one to hide, nor to have to take 'friendly' fire over.

Then by all rights, "Don't ask, don't tell" should work just fine for any gays that want to enlist, right? I mean, if it's a non-issue. They don't tell anyone, no one asks.

Originally posted by jerico65
I will bet you any amount of money that the IG will get complaints just like that.

I don't doubt that there will so more than zero complaints like that. Just as I don't doubt that in some cases, it will be true. But that is irrelevant. They have to deal with it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When you can prove it is genetic my attitude will change.

Oh. I see. Well, you'll have to wait for the science, then. I don't care whether or not it's genetic. That is also irrelevant.

Having the defining characteristic as sexuality is detrimental to military service.

I agree 100%! Don't Ask, Don't Tell only applies to certain people who are defined (by the military) by their sexuality. Obama actually wants to REMOVE that "special treatment" and let them all be treated equally.

What are you going to say when members of your regiment are marching in homosexual pride parades in uniform. And it by God will happen.

I don't know what the current military policy is for people wearing their uniforms in non-military events, so I can't say. But if is permitted, I don't have a problem with it. Do you? Why?

Homosexuality is detrimental to military service.

That's just your opinion. As is the rest of your post.



[edit on 3-2-2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't doubt that there will so more than zero complaints like that. Just as I don't doubt that in some cases, it will be true. But that is irrelevant. They have to deal with it.

Oh. I see. Well, you'll have to wait for the science, then. I don't care whether or not it's genetic. That is also irrelevant.

"Irrelevant" "Deal with it". That seems to be your answer to everything, isn't it? It's like I said, the lifting of the gay ban is forced onto the military, then everyone turns their back on any problems, or blows them off (no pun intended) with the response, "Deal with it."

That's because you don't have to face those problems; it's the men and women in the military right now that will. It goes back to the argument of you NOT having a clue about the military, regardless about what your family and friends tell you. You aren't not having to deal with this first hand.

And comparing this to race just cheapens the struggle the blacks went thru. And is irrevelent. Deal with it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I agree 100%! Don't Ask, Don't Tell only applies to certain people who are defined (by the military) by their sexuality. Obama actually wants to REMOVE that "special treatment" and let them all be treated equally.

As I said before, I guess that "Don't ask, don't tell" is OK, then, right? The recruiters don't ask their orientation, and they don't tell anyone. Everyone is happy.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I don't know what the current military policy is for people wearing their uniforms in non-military events, so I can't say. But if is permitted, I don't have a problem with it. Do you? Why?

It's not. And what do you think is going to happen when some troop gets busted with the UCMJ for wearing his?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That's just your opinion. As is the rest of your post.

An opinion based on 27 years in the USAF.

And your opinions are based on how many years in the military? Oh yeah, I forgot. None.

Originally posted by jerico65
It's like I said, the lifting of the gay ban is forced onto the military, then everyone turns their back on any problems, or blows them off (no pun intended) with the response, "Deal with it."

They DO have to deal with it. They deal with problems and issues every day.

That's because you don't have to face those problems; it's the men and women in the military right now that will.

Yes. They will. And they will do a fine job, I'm sure. They are competent to deal with it. I don't see a problem.

You aren't not having to deal with this first hand.

No. I'm not. WHat does that have to do with ANYTHING?

And comparing this to race just cheapens the struggle the blacks went thru. And is irrevelent. Deal with it.

I happen to think that persecution, oppression and discrimination are serious matters, no matter who is the victim of such behavior.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Everyone is happy.

But everyone ISN'T happy.

It's not. And what do you think is going to happen when some troop gets busted with the UCMJ for wearing his?

I know you don't like to hear it, but he'll have to deal with it. If it's not permitted, he should be treated as ANY military member would be.

[edit on 3-2-2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

reply to post by jerico65


“There are none so blind as those, that will not see”

My husband's uncle is a 20+ year retired marine - - and he's an idiot.

One does not need to be in the military to have a viewpoint/opinion on human Behavior/Neurosis/Prejudice/Open Mindedness - etc.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yes. They will. And they will do a fine job, I'm sure. They are competent to deal with it. I don't see a problem.

Yep, more of the same. "Deal with it". We're (not you, the military) is "dealing with" a two front war right now. You think that maybe dealing with that might be more important?

And the timing of this is curious. Geez, maybe the vote whores in DC are looking to keep their jobs, and thought this might be the way to corner "The Gay Vote"?

I mean, this is a conspiracy site.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No. I'm not. WHat does that have to do with ANYTHING?

You just aren't catching on, are you?

You don't have to deal with the problems this is going to cause. You know, having one of my Airmen come up to me and say, "Sgt X looked at me funny and now I feel all dirty inside."

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I happen to think that persecution, oppression and discrimination are serious matters, no matter who is the victim of such behavior.

As I said, until they can prove this is genetic, it's no way the same as what the blacks had to go thru.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
But everyone ISN'T happy.

Life sucks. Get a helmet. If they don't like it, don't join. The military is a privilege, not a right.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I know you don't like to hear it, but he'll have to deal with it. If it's not permitted, he should be treated as ANY military member would be.

Exactly. And when he decides to run to the ACLU and complain, "They're picking on me because I'm gay!", what then?

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I would venture to suggest that it is folks such as yourself that feel the need to define others by their sexuality, and that gays would just prefer it to be a non-issue. Not one to hide, nor to have to take 'friendly' fire over.

Then by all rights, "Don't ask, don't tell" should work just fine for any gays that want to enlist, right? I mean, if it's a non-issue. They don't tell anyone, no one asks.

You miss my point...why should one have to hide that aspect of their being? Really...it's sweating the small stuff. Isn't one's efficiency as a soldier what really counts?

Originally posted by jerico65
Life sucks. Get a helmet.

That's what I'm saying. GET comfortable with it, soldier! If you're not comfortable or you don't want to deal with the "problems" of equality, too freaking bad. Don't join the military.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That's what I'm saying.

GET comfortable with it, soldier! If you're not comfortable or you don't want to deal with the "problems" of equality, too freaking bad. Don't join the military.

BH, I've dealt with problems in the AF that would keep you sleepless for the rest of your miserable life. There are times when my days are darker than your nights ever will be. So, how about running your suck somewhere else? One thing I've never been accused of is not taking care of my troops. MMmmmmm-kay?

And if gays have a problem with DADT, too freakin' bad. Don't join the military.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
You miss my point...why should one have to hide that aspect of their being? Really...it's sweating the small stuff. Isn't one's efficiency as a soldier what really counts?

I was playing Devil's Advocate. Your statement could be taken another way, and DADT would fit as a solution.

How does "exposing an aspect of their being" make a person more efficient? This whole problem is like a double-edged sword.

And if they do allow gays in the military (and I'm pretty certain they will), what's next? What about someone that's transgendered? What about a transvestite?

Originally posted by jerico65

And if they do allow gays in the military (and I'm pretty certain they will), what's next? What about someone that's transgendered? What about a transvestite?

Yah, I read that clown too. So what? Guess it all comes down to following orders, and I'm guessing it'll be coming down the pipes pretty soon. Live with it.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Yah, I read that clown too. So what? Guess it all comes down to following orders, and I'm guessing it'll be coming down the pipes pretty soon. Live with it.

"Live with it" "Deal with it". Wow, everyone here on ATS all getting so aggressive and hostile over this.

As usual, it's always easy to say, "Live with it", than actually have to do just that.

How about this? How about the military starts to impose some of their "lifestyle choices" on you?

PT is at 0600. Followed by a ruck march.