Originally posted by jerico65
You forgot the important one: Only people who've been in the military are allowed to vote and be citizens.

Fair enough.

Back on topic. The one bone I always pick with people about DADT is the "shower scenario". People who are all for gays in the military say that it's no big deal for gay males to shower with straight males.

BUT.......if you say, "Well, then, it's OK for straight males to shower with straight females", everyone puts on the brakes. What's the diff???

There is no difference once all is out in the open and people are willing to think independently and with all factors equal (a rare talent).

If there is one thing I try to be, it's consistent. This is why I agree with the one standard one shower policy. There should be no special treatment for anyone and they should let it be known in advance.

The shower argument is a valid one, and to agree with changing the DADT policy, to me, it would necessitate changing to coed showers and rooming situations.

BH said that if a straight male Airman comes up to me and complains about a gay male Airman giving him "the big eye", I'm suppose to tell him to "deal with it and not be a big baby".

YET....if I told that to a straight female Airman who complained about a straight male Airman doing that to her, I might as well go down to "Pick N Pay Shoes" and get a new job, because I'd lose my stripes and my career.

Agreed. Unwanted, persistent, and forceful sexual harassment has no gender boundaries and should be treated the same way for all situations.

I believe she is saying that the frivolous harassment claims should be ignored (as they should be from women).

I believe we should apply one standard and one set of rules for all, with no exceptions.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

There is no difference once all is out in the open and people are willing to think independently and with all factors equal (a rare talent).

If there is one thing I try to be, it's consistent. This is why I agree with the one standard one shower policy. There should be no special treatment for anyone and they should let it be known in advance.

I'm with you on the co-ed showers. There's just too much emphasis on nudity - - get over it.

Do we ever hear women complain about showering with Lesbians?

Originally posted by Annee
I'm with you on the co-ed showers. There's just too much emphasis on nudity - - get over it.

Do we ever hear women complain about showering with Lesbians?

Nope, but I've got to tell ya, my wife threw a fit when she heard my views on this matter. She said it best, people do not want equality, they only want equal opportunity.

Sad but true.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Annee
I'm with you on the co-ed showers. There's just too much emphasis on nudity - - get over it.

Do we ever hear women complain about showering with Lesbians?

Nope, but I've got to tell ya, my wife threw a fit when she heard my views on this matter. She said it best, people do not want equality, they only want equal opportunity.

Sad but true.

There is so much emphasis put on sex by media/ads - - - one almost feels like we are in a competition.

If nudity for nudity sake became common place - - maybe the brain would stay focused on what it needs to.

Originally posted by Annee
There is so much emphasis put on sex by media/ads - - - one almost feels like we are in a competition.

If nudity for nudity sake became common place - - maybe the brain would stay focused on what it needs to.

We would be to remove religion, one of the greatest bane to sexual advancement and gender equality ever to hit planet earth.

If we could eliminate the idea that the genitals are dirty and scandalous places and, specifically, the vagina is a horribly filthy thing that should have shame cast upon it, we might get somewhere.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jerico65
I'm in the AF because you aren't smart enough, brave enough and strong enough.

Actually, I didn't join because I went to college and got a real job.

I just had to come back and say that I hope people know that I really didn't mean what I said above. I have a great deal of respect for the idea of our military and most of the people who are involved in it. I think there are some big problems with some of their policies (DADT, for example) and just as in civilian life, there are going to be people who deserve my respect and those that absolutely don't.

I let jerico65's accusation that I "wasn't smart enough, brave enough or strong enough" to have joined the military get under my skin, mostly because none of it is true, so I struck back. My above response was out of emotion and I apologize to my military and veteran friends on ATS.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
If the "shower scenario" is really the only issue (which it's not, but keeps coming up as an example to be solved) than all that needs to happen is partitions added to the showers. Easy. Case closed on that issue. Yes/No?

Well, the one scenario that's brought up is the field. Things like partition stalls are fine in garrison, but in the field, things are different.

I figure that in the field, tho, people are too tired and beat to think about sex!

Originally posted by LadySkadi
And the "sexual harassment scenario" is also another situation that already has precedence.
The military does have policy and procedure for this, no? Looking at someone "sideways" and making them uncomfortable or vice verse is an issue, but is it harassment?

Exactly. Doesn't matter, if someone is "uncomfortable", it's harrassment.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
The bigger more global topic of policy change does seem to be happening. By actively talking about this in D.C., the message has gone out, the head's up has been given... I would interpret that to mean that those involved (those currently in the military) should begin working on ways to troubleshoot the problems that will be coming.

That's why DoD want a year to go over this all. It's not going to be lifted overnight.

Originally posted by KrazyJethro

Originally posted by Annee
There is so much emphasis put on sex by media/ads - - - one almost feels like we are in a competition.

If nudity for nudity sake became common place - - maybe the brain would stay focused on what it needs to.

We would be to remove religion, one of the greatest bane to sexual advancement and gender equality ever to hit planet earth.

If we could eliminate the idea that the genitals are dirty and scandalous places and, specifically, the vagina is a horribly filthy thing that should have shame cast upon it, we might get somewhere.

Oh God! Don't even get me started on religion - - which is man made for control and political maneuvering.

I am ZERO tolerance for anything religious connected in government.

Myself - - I'm more a follower of the Terra Papers - and that real events took place - - - and nothing exists but energy/energy consciousness.

Originally posted by Moonman1111

Originally posted by MajesticJax

Originally posted by Sf18443
Fox news has just reported that Obama, in tonight's state of the union speech, will as congress to repeal the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy in the US military.

Look, I have extensive hetero credentials, but really, what's the big deal? Our military should be made up of the cross-section of our society, and homosexuals are a part of it. My problem lies when they want to force the exposure to homosexuality on our pre-pubescent chidren, (as in presenting that "lifestyle" in school, books, etc, to children 12 or so and under). THAT is wrong.

Other than that, I don't care who Sgt. Jones blows in his off-time, as long as he follows his orders while delivering on his promise to protect the tenets of the Constitution.

STD's/HIV is the big problem if our military let nancy boys openly join. not to mention all the foolish deviant behavior that would go on in the shower room and after lights out. Plus, I think the majority of soldiers would be uncomfortable sharing close living quarters with a homosexual, I know I would.

you are disgusting