Obama wants to out our military!

Originally posted by jerico65
What I had said is that I don't like it when civilians without a single clue about what goes on in the military start running their suck about how things should change, what should go on, etc.

First, I actually DO have a clue about what goes on in the military. Many of my friends and family members have been in the military and have served overseas, and I've been listening to them from the Vietnam War until present. It's not like it's some big secret club that civilians have no clue about.

Secondly, I'm sorry you don't like me running my suck, but that's really too bad. I will give my opinion and do everything I can to sway my representatives to do something about it.

And I have no problem with equal rights. I do have a problem with some people thinking that they are more equal than others.

That doesn't make sense.

Are you under the impression that I have a problem with gays in the military?

No. I'm under the impression that you don't want them to be "out" while there. I'm not certain of this as you haven't stated one way or the other. But I am assuming that you don't want them to display pictures of their lovers, talk about their orientation or indicate that they are gay in any way. I could be wrong. If so, please feel free to share.

All they want is to be able to act the same way as straight people do. Talk about their families, friends, children, have pictures of them and not feel like they have to hide who they are. As I've said before, if the military wants to make this rule apply to everyone, that would be fine.

Now, where does that state I have a problem with gays?

I didn't say you did.

Originally posted by Moonman1111
STD's/HIV is the big problem if our military let nancy boys openly join. not to mention all the foolish deviant behavior that would go on in the shower room and after lights out. Plus, I think the majority of soldiers would be uncomfortable sharing close living quarters with a homosexual, I know I would.

Not to worry...a little therapy on why you have these anti-gay feelings oughtta fix you right up. Then you won't feel the need to be afraid of them...or deal with them using pejoratives.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


No you don't have a clue about what happens in the military. You showed that in your description of what you thought military life was like a few pages ago.

I have friends who are 100% mexican, but I don't have a clue what its like to live in mexico.

Stop talking out the wrong end.

Originally posted by Berserker01
No you don't have a clue about what happens in the military. You showed that in your description of what you thought military life was like a few pages ago.

I described ONE day of basic training. That doesn't mean that every day in the entire military is like that. You assumed I was describing the whole of military life. Your mistake.

I have friends who are 100% mexican, but I don't have a clue what its like to live in mexico.

I do. I live in New Mexico and know many Mexicans. I have talked to them about their lives and homes in Mexico. It's really not that hard to do.

Stop talking out the wrong end.

I don't know about you, but there's only one end I talk out of.

Here now, I thought we settled this a few pages ago.

I don't quite see the problem. Shouldn't it be the goal of intelligent people to remove that which divides us? Does fairness or equality really play a part in our lives when we benefit the many or the few, depending on the issue?

Isn't it about time we grew up a little here guys?

The circular conversations about something as petty as who might see her breast or peak at his junk get old in a place that espouses intellectual discourse.

American social culture has some serious and childish issues with regard to sex and sexuality and it's time those things were scorned as the trash they are.

One military from one people with one standard, and dare I say it, with one type of shower.

Peace
KJ

Sense of humour deficiancy here methinks ! It was said in humour no offence was meant !

Originally posted by ProRipp
Sense of humour deficiancy here methinks ! It was said in humour no offence was meant !

While I accept your response, you've gotta admit that such things have been posted by those who mean it. Of course...not that my opinion counts for much.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Given your avatar...and the thread topic....I can't resist...

ARTIST: Monty Python
TITLE: I'm a Lumberjack

I'm a lumberjack and I'm okay
I sleep all night and I work all day
He's a lumberjack and he's okay
He sleeps all night and he works all day


I cut down trees, I eat my lunch
I go to the lavat'ry
On Wednesdays I go shopping
And have buttered scones for tea
He cuts down trees...
He's a lumberjack...


I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I love to press wild flow'rs
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars
He cuts down trees...
He's a lumberjack...

I cut down trees, I wear high heels
Suspendies and a bra
I wish I'd been a girlie
Just like my dear papa
He cuts down trees...
He's a lumberjack...

* All kidding aside, we can't ask a soldier who volounteered to go in harms way for his country to lie about who he/she is.

Where is the Honor in literally requiring duplicity?

We are better than that. Don't ask/Don't tell was a half measure and those times have passed.

The world is changing at light speed and if the USA is going to prosper it has to live up to what it claims it stands for.

We can be the United States of America that the world once looked to for light and guidance...or we can be nothing more than an outdated brand name that has lost credibility.

If ever we are genuinely threatened as a nation, I will choose to stand beside those that choose to fight.
...white/black..gay/straight...man/woman......whatever.

Don't ask/Don't tell was offensive to the tenents of the US Military to begin with and it's time for it end.

Ooo-Rah!!!

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Given your avatar...and the thread topic....I can't resist...

I cut down trees, I skip and jump
I love to press wild flow'rs
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars
He cuts down trees...
He's a lumberjack...

I cut down trees, I wear high heels
Suspendies and a bra
I wish I'd been a girlie
Just like my dear papa
He cuts down trees...
He's a lumberjack...

Bingo!!

Truth is, after 5 seasons of '6 Feet Under', I still squirm when I see two guys making out...but I figure that's my problem.

I respect the men and women that put it on the line for our countries...and what they do when the lights go out is none of my business...'long as it don't scare the horses.

Originally posted by maybereal11
The world is changing at light speed and if the USA is going to prosper it has to live up to what it claims it stands for.

We can be the United States of America that the world once looked to for light and guidance...or we can be nothing more than an outdated brand name that has lost credibility.

If ever we are genuinely threatened as a nation, I will choose to stand beside those that choose to fight.
...white/black..gay/straight...man/woman......whatever.

Wow! That was so well-said!

We can't be the United States of America, with all that entails, and treat a segment of our society as second class citizens. It's the most hypocritical thing possible. It's interesting to be living in the times when we're arguing over equality, but frankly, I've had enough. It's time to put our money where our mouths are are start walking the Constitutional walk, not just talking the talk.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
First, I actually DO have a clue about what goes on in the military. Many of my friends and family members have been in the military and have served overseas, and I've been listening to them from the Vietnam War until present. It's not like it's some big secret club that civilians have no clue about.

No, you don't. Your friends and family that have been in the military have a clue, but you don't. You just have an opinion that was formed from their experiences. You've never served, you don't know what's going on, you don't have any idea what allowing gays in the military will do (good or bad), and you don't have to go thru the upheavel it will cause (good or bad).

And it is a "big secret club" that you will know nothing about until you get to experience it first hand.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jerico65
I do have a problem with some people thinking that they are more equal than others.

That doesn't make sense.

Never read "Animal Farm", did you?

Originally posted by jerico65
And it is a "big secret club" that you will know nothing about until you get to experience it first hand.

I don't have to experience something to have a clue about it, especially when people have told me what it's like. I was an Air Force wife. I know what my ex-husband was experiencing. My brother was a Marine in Vietnam. Two of my nephews were in Iraq.

No, I will never experience being in the military, but I definitely know something about it. You can deny that all you like, but you're wrong. I don't have to experience being a member of the NRA, or have been a slave...I don't have to have gone scuba diving or jumped from an airplane to imagine what they are like. No, I will never know ALL the aspects of it, but I certainly have a clue.

Originally posted by jerico65
Never read "Animal Farm", did you?

No, I haven't. If you care to explain what this phrase means, I'm listening. It sounds a little like you think gays are asking for "special rights". I'd like to know what that phrase means, too.

If you haven't read Animal Farm, read it. Immediately.

You could read "more equal" to mean "more important", better, or above others.

There is no validity to the idea that wanting to be as open as the next guy in no way shows a want to be better, above, or more equal than heterosexuals.

The idea that homosexuals should just "keep it to themselves" or "keep it out of my face" is a fallacious one. Unless the heterosexuals military members were willing to do the same, which is very doubtful, the idea it void.

Some claim esprit de corps problems. This, also, has nothing to do with the type of difference between people, but which ones they choose to make an issue.

There are many opponents to openly gay people serving, but there has been little to no argument against it that has any merit or real staying power.



[edit on 3-2-2010 by KrazyJethro]

Originally posted by KrazyJethro
You could read "more equal" to mean "more important", better, or above others.

Which is ridiculous. Sounds like those who claim that gays want "special rights"... I'd like to know what special rights they're asking for.

Some claim esprit de corps problems. This, also, has nothing to do with the type of difference between people, but which ones they choose to make an issue.

So true. This was a point I was going to bring up earlier, but didn't know quite how to say it. The fact that people may have problems with gays being out in the military is irrelevant.

I think the don't ask don't tell policy is fine the way it is. If it aint broke don't fix it imo.

reply to post by Solomons


It's broke. Perfectly capable and willing people are being kicked out of our military because of it. There are MANY problems with it.

Watch Jon Stewart's interview with Nathaniel Frank about how the gay ban undermines the military and weakens America.

Originally posted by Solomons
I think the don't ask don't tell policy is fine the way it is. If it aint broke don't fix it imo.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

1) Why is it fine the way it is?

2) How is it a just or equal policy?

3) Why would homosexuals not having to lie be destructive to the military in any way?

These are a few questions, but there is much more that needs to be said for your view to be even remotely taken seriously.

Please, more support.

Peace
KJ

reply to post by Solomons


Oh, there are many problems with it. Once you're outed, you're gone... As BH said, perfectly competant soldiers and sailors are being kicked out for a reason that is ludicrous.

Don't ask don't tell is better than nothing, that much is true, but it's a long way from a solution that gives equality to all in the military. It's time and past for the military to dig their heads out on this matter.