Is armed struggle necessary to gain Freedom?

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."

*Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

You only have to look at the 'Non-cooperation movement' in India which forced the British to table to discuss inpendence. Violence at the hand of the masses allows the people in power to use those actions as propaganda tool to divide the people.

If you look at the 'Poll Tax' debacle in the UK which, despite outbreaks of violence, many people just opted not to comply and led to an overall changing in the system. One of the only times in recent history where a unified front by the general public of a western nation has led to the backing down of a goverment.

reply to post by Zosynspiracy


woop*..corrected! sorry abt that.

Originally posted by December_Rain
reply to post by Zosynspiracy

 

I will take example of Gandhi. Earlier you stated Gandhi's salt march didnt brought freedom but armed struggle did. But you are forgetting non-violence movement had more impact in people. It had many more people supporting i, thru peacefull means such as boycott movement which hurted British. And in the end Britishers called Gandhi to discuss about freedom not the armed resistance. So impact of non-violence cannot be ruled out.

If you think for one minute Mandela regretted his people rising up against the minority oppressors, you are mistaken. He could have quelled the people with three words, but he chose to use the uprising to advance the cause of freedom. Mandela was put in jail for 27 years for his violence against the Government of South Africa, then he became president of the country. What a terrific individual. His policy ever after was was one of peace and reconsiliation. I dont want to hear any more Ghandi crap.

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

Many things sound wonderful on paper............an eye for an eye makes the world blind blah blah blah........ but we live in the REAL world where like I said people will kill you without hesitation for your shoes or a few dollars. In those instances yes if it's the difference between my life or the life of my child or wife I will defend myself to the fullest extent necessary. Murder is completely different than self defense. I suggest you learn that difference.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Zosynspiracy]

I know the difference and I understand it.

Self defence is one thing but an eye for an eye is another.

If someone said to me, I am going to rape your wife and kill your kid, I would protect them but I would not ask for a man to be murdered after that had happened if I did not have the chance to stop it.
If someone said to me, give me your car or I will shoot you, I would happily give them the car.
If someone asked me to bow to them or they would chop my head off, I would not bow.

There are certain things worth protecting and dying for, is an idea of how you want the world to be, one of those things to kill for as well as ask another to die for?

[edit on 20-1-2010 by XXXN3O]

>>Fight fire with fire and you will burst in to flames. You cannot just pretend to be as savage as the people you want to overthrow, overthrow them, then switch it off and rule peacefully because the reality is that you have become just as bad or worse.

You can count on one thing, one side at least will always resort to violence. The question is do you want to be a martyr or a murderer?


edit for spelling (hey, its early)

[edit on 20-1-2010 by Asktheanimals]

Originally posted by Pewbert
>>Fight fire with fire and you will burst in to flames. You cannot just pretend to be as savage as the people you want to overthrow, overthrow them, then switch it off and rule peacefully because the reality is that you have become just as bad or worse.

I dont want to hear any more Ghandi crap.

Is this becuase your mind is closed to anything other than violence?

Is this becuase you may have been one of the ones that profitted from having the whip hand over his brother?

Peaceful resistance is not a practice which is used by many due to the discipline it takes to carry it through. There will always be factions that seeks violence amongst the passive. Wolves amongst the sheep. You only have to look at the outbreaks of violence at the G8, etc where the mindless go on the rampage but this shouldnt mean that non-cooperation/non-violence methods are not sought after.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Excellent question .
Second line.

No human loves bloodshed, at least most. Which is why every nation has a National Constitution, to protect the children, women, old folks and the weaker ones in a civilised republic society.

It is only when such constitutions are torn asunder then tyranny will reign. As long as there is democracy, all peaceful means must be made to ensure the rulers hear the voices of the masses thru elected representatives to reconvoke the constitution.

Failing which, you and I will have to make a stand before the dictators, unarmed, and never be the first to use arms. If the rulers refused to listen, we will stand and press our demands, stop their progress into parliaments if need be, and cripple the economy, for it is US, that makes the nation strong.

To only remove you and I will be through force and bullets. You and I will have families, relatives and friends, interconnected whom will be our society, who will not stand apathically by. They too will join in, by conscience, forcing TPTB to use further violence to protect their own miserable lives.

When that happens, the masses will then no longer stand for it and will crush the rulers and their minions with their bare hands.TPTB will always be only a minority. They fear us more than we should ever fear them, if they intend to set up tyranny, which no free human would ever condone.

But such movements can ONLY be used if the need is critical. Currently, while every nation has problems, the need for violence is not critical yet, as there is still room for discussion and peaceful solutions.

Violence MUST ALWAYS be the last option after all avenues of diplomacy had been fully exhausted, otherwise, as some writers here had explained, we will be no better than those who impose their will on us by fighting violence with violence.

Innocent human lives are precious, and must NEVER ever be given away needlessly while there is a chance for peaceful change.



[edit on 20-1-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

violence is the suprem authority, from which all other authority is derived. if the authority is unwilling to compromise for the greater good, then violence is the last and only option. i would agree it would be best to effect change without violence but it has never worked, even small amount of violence effects only partial changes now days. take a look at history, you said the word that is the problem "greed" and there is no CURE for greed except Death.

ask your leaders to step down, see how far that gets you. protest everyday, yeah great job, get millions of people on your side and march everyday, now you have an army, all non-violent, then either the GOV kills you or someone else then your army is no longer NON-violent and they revolt, many deaths and rivers of blood. so non-violence only works up to a point at which violence rules.

look at it anyway you like but the Question was "Is armed struggle necessary to gain Freedom? the answer is YES when the governing bodies flat out refuse to compromise.

i think it was JFK that said it best. but the answer is will remain YES.

Power derives from the barrel of a gun, but logic and reason rules the hearts and minds of mankind.

Let reason and logic rule, with compromises if necessary, for power unchecked and from the barrel is nothing more than tyranny.

Let no more innocent human lives be lost needlessly. It is within yours and my capability, for we are both civilised persons, not beasts of the wild.

[edit on 20-1-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

Originally posted by The_Archangel

I dont want to hear any more Ghandi crap.

Is this becuase your mind is closed to anything other than violence?

Is this becuase you may have been one of the ones that profitted from having the whip hand over his brother?

Peaceful resistance is not a practice which is used by many due to the discipline it takes to carry it through. There will always be factions that seeks violence amongst the passive. Wolves amongst the sheep. You only have to look at the outbreaks of violence at the G8, etc where the mindless go on the rampage but this shouldnt mean that non-cooperation/non-violence methods are not sought after.

Face it, I'm a realist and you are an idiot wearing a collar. If you cannot contribute constructively you should retire your computer and turn your TV back on. There are plenty of soap operas there to help you not think so often.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
You can count on one thing, one side at least will always resort to violence. The question is do you want to be a martyr or a murderer?


Very good!!! 5 stars

oh yeah i forgot to tell ya where you missed the point.

you said "a predator hunts prey, not its own kind. "

humans are a predator and a predator hunts period. the prey is anything on its target. even for food we have eaten our own when faced with a situation or for religious purposes. don't even think that can't happen again. the so Called Murderers kill for gratification. we see nature itself even kill itself off. humans are the worst of anything ever viewed in nature. heck nature wasn't enough we even came up with other reasons to knock off our own. the definition of predator is just a very small aspect of the human species but it is one that we should never deny which is why many people fight for liberty or personal responsibility. not sure about you but i'm very good at many things, i trust my life in my hands before yours.

trusting in others is - self is first, most cared about is second. if that wasn't the way of things then how did we come up with self sacrifice?

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101


"Let no more innocent human lives be lost needlessly. "


And How many lost lives were needful in Iraq, Afghanistan, central America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Africa, kent state, Waco, Ruby Ridge, etc etc etc etc etc...

Did you know: America invaded Canada, Mexico, Granada, the Philippines, Cuba, and others. And has deployed special armed forces or CIA into sovereign nations, in peace time, to commit murder, espionage, kidnapings, bombings, poisonings, and spread disinformation? This is just a partial list. Does this government fairly represent your wishes when they conduct themselves lawlessly?

The government needs to go....but it will only go violently.

Armed struggle only helps them rally the majority against you. Most folks hate guns and had it ingrained in their brains by too much TV. Besides, they got bigger guns than you. The best thing that I can think of is have the majority change their belief system. Have the people change sides so to speak. Then again, there's apathy that we have to contend with. Then again, things are going down the drain fast and more and more people are becoming displeased with where the country is heading.

Oh well.

Originally posted by regretable

Originally posted by The_Archangel

I dont want to hear any more Ghandi crap.

Is this becuase your mind is closed to anything other than violence?

Is this becuase you may have been one of the ones that profitted from having the whip hand over his brother?

Peaceful resistance is not a practice which is used by many due to the discipline it takes to carry it through. There will always be factions that seeks violence amongst the passive. Wolves amongst the sheep. You only have to look at the outbreaks of violence at the G8, etc where the mindless go on the rampage but this shouldnt mean that non-cooperation/non-violence methods are not sought after.

Face it, I'm a realist and you are an idiot wearing a collar. If you cannot contribute constructively you should retire your computer and turn your TV back on. There are plenty of soap operas there to help you not think so often.

That pitiful response is an example of your pitiful intellect. You are not a contributing anything to the thread apart adding the sound of your knuckles dragging across the floor. You are proberly one of those kids that was bullied at school at sought after some form of solace by getting himself a uniform to make up for his shortcomings as a man. Akin to those that beat Rodney King with their nightsticks or those that are leeching off the taxpayer in Iraq on some security detail even though they are overweight and never really cut it in the military. The very people that baulk at peace and make sure that humanity marches on the spot instead of advancing into a more advanced age.

reply to post by December_Rain


We are a war-like race. We fought our way to the top of the food chain. What makes you think we wouldn't keep fighting each other over "ideas"?

Lets say I want to impose my will on you, now if you don't want my will then I will resort to violence to make you see the truth of my will.

Why do we have a military? Police? Why has the human race fought each other over land and ownership?

We are not a peaceful species. Not yet anyway.

The only way we will ever gain unity and advancement in this world is NOT to use their methods, nor do we capitualate to their fascism and control, or current mismanagement of the planet.


How to stop the NWO 1/5

Max Igan is one of my favorite online presences, and his videos are incredible! He shows us not only that we need to wake up and be aware, but that we need to take responsibility metaphysically for the mirror to our consciousness this world is, and that we are subconsciously being programmed through their actions, words, media and events, as tbtp and their minions are agents of chaos, to create this hell on earth. They have creators asleep and creating subconsciously hell! That is how the matrix works.

Our job is to say no, to sign up round table agreements amongst ourselves to support each other, if and when they try to single out people and bring them to legal proceedings, we need to band up together and show up in court and say, we are all guilty of this, for we are not complying with this criminal illegal law. It is treason and we will ensure you will never continue in your job, or be re-elected, you are fired. And if enough of us did this, by the millions, no one could be put in jail. We could simply walk in a bust any of us out that they target.

You have to understand we have to mount a completely aware, non-compliance resistance. He goes further, he goes in to the police station and presses charges against them, he adocates writing and even phoning if you can, your senators, mlas and representatives to tell them that if they even try to pass this bill they will never elected again for this is a crime against humanity and freedom as is treason, and that you will ensure that others organize non-resistance.

He does not limit that the moment may come where we may have to fight, as it may be forced upon us if they start to attack large numbers of civilians, or depopulate, however, if we do this first, we have failed.

He also invites everyone to join The Great Intention, for one hour of envisioning, manifesting, meditating, praying and co-creating world peace, freedom, equality, safety for the people and an edenist word, and really, as Skyfloating's thread on the law of attraction, feeling it around us as if it is now, we are living it, with emotion, feeling it, to pull it

Metaphysics is everyhting. We are holding this in our subconsicous mind. They do things by the numbers. They manifest, or set intentions as spells and write them in the elments, air, fire, water and stone. Some of the spells they wrote pertaining to an armegeddon ending to this world were buried in Sumeria on stone tablets, for slow forming, long acting manifesting. And then they perform mass human sacrifice, they do sacrificial energy to make their dark wishes. I am only now learning this from others, its really sick. Remembrance day 11 11. 911. And I suspect Haiti too.

We have a better way. The Force, the Universal Energy of the positive. Its unlimited. It doesnt take many to change the world, but we have to wake up and hold this frequency, this peace, meditate and do it.


I envision groups of meditators, powerfully protected with merkaba shields, growing across the globe. I envision meditator protestors, all seated and meditating and bringing awareness and growth and ho'onoponopono
www.youtube.com...
ie, letting go of all the data and karma and everything that prevents us from seeing all, including TPTB and dark hats, as light and whole and complete, and newly inspired by Creator. This cycle does not have to end with armeggedon. But we do have to do some inner cleaning, so that they join us in our meditation. They surrender and join.

This would all be over in a flash if we started doing the metaphsyics. We would not have to turn to world wide violence to stop their plans to depopulate. We would transform it.


The Great Intention.


If we miss the time for this on Saturdays, at 2 pm Pacific, different times for different areas, as I often miss dates like this, just know that all psi works out of time, so we can meditate for that hour and link it to this signature, by intention.

Setting intentions helps as well:

"We are awake and aware, waking up to our true abilities now over this planet, and we are now forming manifesting and meditation groups to bring in an edenist world. All awaken and join this transformation. We are powerfully protected and safe and care deeply for every single person and child on this planet, and for all of nature and mother earth and we are acting in love to respond with compassion to each other for we are one, and working at healing mother earth. No plan against the people shall ever propser. We are raising our frequencies to the highest level and our awareness and love, and only positive loving people, events and circumstances will ever enter our lives.
This is manifesting now. It is so. Thank You, Creator, for Your love, shine Your light and love upon us, enlighten us. I offer this intention to You."



[edit on 20-1-2010 by Unity_99]