This is reality, this is hell, this is our life (video)

Originally posted by djusdjus
I laugh at people who think anarchy will work.

HOW? How will no government be better tahn having one?

what about that school system that educated you to a point where you can read what's written here and wriute a response? Was that the result of anarchy?

early america was a republic and confederation of states as declared, not a state of anarchy.

anarchy can only work with small, accountable and responsible populations.

there are far too many lazy minded, lazy body people to even ponder anarchy in the modern world.

somalia is anarchy (without a ruler) right now. Do you think that is preferable to where you are right now in front of your computer that you pay to read this on?

How about Sudan? Prefer that sort of thing?

I wish people would have even one or two thoughts before they start spouting fresh nonsense. Would be lovely as a cuppa!

I would submit to you who want anarchy that you, personally, are not responsible enough, willful enough, or capable enough of living within it. Prove me wrong if you think you are. Get off the grid, stop collecting dole and go out there into teh world an live it.

My money is on "you can't".

Oh... and about Somalia...

You should do a little research on the country, they've actually managed to develop better infrastructure and a more bustling economy than many African countries with centralized government/economies.

Now I'm not saying Somalia is the best example of Anarchy... however, they have actually done some remarkable things without a real nation-state to speak of. There is definitely quite a bit of violence/chaos there... and it is sort of an Anarcho-capitalist (not good) haven. However, things are not all bad in Somalia, some decent examples are actually being demonstrated.

Originally posted by Nomad451
I want to leave society behind and live in the wilderness, meditate, and be free.

It's all fun and games until somebody needs a dentist. Just sayin'.

Hierarchy has been proven to be the cause of stress. By studying baboons.

The real problem is that there is someone you have to obey to.



[edit on 21-1-2010 by ickylevel]

Originally posted by ickylevel
Hierarchy has been proven to be the cause of stress. By studying baboons.

The real problem is that there is someone you have to obey to.



[edit on 21-1-2010 by ickylevel]

Makes a lot of sense. It's insane for humans to give each other/allow each other such extreme positions of power and wealth over and above us. It just isn't justifiable or sane.

Everybody should check out Cooperatives. They're essentially organizations or workplaces with horizontal rule, which means true Democracy/consensus, full equality, no rulers, no slaves, the best example of Anarchy at good work:

en.wikipedia.org...

Best part is, they EXIST and work quite well and even more efficiently than top-down structures in many cases! Think of that....

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Yes. I get it. Working sucks. It is not fun. Conditions in non-socialistic countries are awful

compared to,say, North Korea.

Here's the thing, Korea is not socialist, neither is China, nor is, or was, Russia. They are dictatorships. Quit using them as examples for something they are not, and have nothing to do with what socialists want.

Socialism is 'The workers ownership of the means of production'.

That is it, anything else that someone labels or attaches to socialism is THEIR thinking, their opinion, their agenda, it's not socialism.

Marxism was Marx and Engels own IDEA of socialism, not a blue print of socialism, or an instruction book.

Once we have achieved ownership the means of production, the only way we will own ourselves, then we will have socialism. What we do with society after that is up to us all, not a government, not a dictator. If you think of the word socialism in that context, and forget all the BS associated with it then we may find a path to true liberty and an end to all the corporate crap coursed by private ownership of OUR resources (Capitalism). The basics for survival should not be used as assets for private bank accounts, they should be the property of us all.

We will never be free while our resources are controlled by private entities who's only goal is private profit, which does nothing but TAKE from society with only an illusion of giving.

('Scuse me if this has all been covered but I only read the first page so far and wanted to put in my tuppence on this matter, thank you and goodnight, you've been a wonderful audience.)

reply to post by ANOK


Yes indeed, it seems as if (particularly) Americans condem socialism for what they think it stands for. And condemming capitalism automaticly makes you a communist of some kind. The truth is libertarian socialism isn't so bad, it might even change the world for the better. But people are already looking at you strange when the world socialism pops up.

Originally posted by Matrix777

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by Nomad451
I want to leave society behind and live in the wilderness, meditate, and be free.

So what is stopping you?

Loved ones, Family, pets? When these exist in ones life it can be difficult to just walk away forever and leave them all behind.

Loved ones. Family. Pets. So maybe this life isn't such hell after all?

Originally posted by colloredbrothers
Yes indeed, it seems as if (particularly) Americans condem socialism for what they think it stands for. And condemming capitalism automaticly makes you a communist of some kind. The truth is libertarian socialism isn't so bad, it might even change the world for the better. But people are already looking at you strange when the world socialism pops up.

Yes exactly, thanx...

Problem is what else can it be called? It is socialism. The only thing we can do is try to get people to stop with the automatic conditioning stepping in when certain trigger words are used, but it's tough. I try as much as I can to explain what socialism really is, that it should not be feared but celebrated.

But I guess what it comes down to is people really still believe what they're told by government and state, even though they claim to mistrust them. Such is social conditioning.

LIBERTARIAN: one who believes in freedom of action and thought; one who believes in free will. SOCIALISM: a social system in which the producers possess both political power and the means of producing and distributing goods.

Just taking those two first definitions and fusing them yields:

LIBERTARIAN SOCIALISM: a social system which believes in freedom of action and thought and free will, in which the producers possess both political power and the means of producing and distributing goods.

eng.anarchopedia.org...

This puts the power in the hand of the WORKER, which is the MAJORITY of us. Why do we support the minority private owner who only takes from us and only has the illusion of giving by creating 'jobs'.

We don't need 'jobs' we need the resources to create a life that is not based on competition and exploitation. 'Jobs' are for creating private wealth, work is what we do to make life better for ourselves and our communities. We don't need capitalism and the private owner, and their hourly wage, to WORK.

Another point, I think deserves a fresh post, I'd like to make is about this claim that capitalism (as in money, which really isn't capitalism, per se, as that is 'private ownership of resources blah blah), anyway this claim that it is the best motivator for work.

Well personally, for example, I'd rather my doctor be motivated by the desire to help heal people than how much he can make. The later only ends up in the least quality of service for the largest cost to the consumer, which is what we get under capitalism. The least they can get away with for the largest take we are willing to fork over. In the work place it is even worse.

Workers who get an hourly wage, regardless of their productivity, have no motivation to work any harder than they have to to keep their job. Employers have no motivation to pay any more than the lowest worker is willing to except (That's why illegals get jobs), and have no motivation to produce goods any better quality then they can get away with and still maintain max profits. We end up with second rate goods for top dollar, and we know no different because we forget how it used to be when products were of top quality.

Now make companies collectives, cooperatives, where all the workers are owners of the company, then all the profits made are reflected in every bodies pay check. This puts the worker, everyone from the sweeper upper to the top man, in the position of being directly responsible for their own pay check. In other words the harder you work the more you make. THAT is how you motivate people, not having everything owned by private entities.

THAT only leads to the mess we have now where all our 'jobs' have gone overseas because the motivation is for the lowest wage, and lowest quality, for the maximum profit.

IT'S A SCAM, basically, played out on each and everyone of us...

[edit on 1/23/2010 by ANOK]

Originally posted by doped00
So true...

I will show the people I know this video.

all of them?

The Answer is so d*** simple.

As long as people continue to dig and scrape their own "insides" for fulfillment and purpose, they will forever be miserable. There is no dream, wish, or desire found while looking out for ones OWN happiness that will suffice.

Every dreary morning will be the same as the one before. No art, no engineering, no achivement of political "for the people" grandure will fill in the gaping hole in the human spirit.

Understand that the what your spirit craves is devotion to other humans outside yourself. Not "friends" either, friends have no commitment and never will no matter how hard you try. If you do not commit to a wife or husband, you cannot feel what it is to have given yourself 100%. Without giving 100% you cannot be commited to. You must commit in entirety to begin healing your bruised and weary soul.

"the world sucks" is crap. It only sucks for the weak and self consumed, or the bruised and weary. The one must heal himself, the other must be healed by another.