Haiti earthquake: France criticises US 'occupation'

It's France . . . .


I fart in their general direction.




How about they try and keep their own country from being repeatedly occupied.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Perhaps the French would like to take up where they left off? Maybe start some new plantations?

Wasn't the more recent US OCCUPATION OF HAITI also brutal?

No need to point fingers at them when your history is just as discriminatory

reply to post by Dermo


Haiti's own history is "discriminatory"< the massacre of white men, women and children as part of it's foundation

reply to post by SLAYER69


Phew! It looks like former President, Bill Clinton, has the heat getting to him. Perhaps, it is time for him to make it back to his palatial compound in New York. I digress, however, that looks like hell on earth over there and on par with the quake that rocked San Francisco in 1906. It looks like a hydrogen bomb went off. That AP video is best I have seen so far, showing the devastation, but still, the camera view doesn't do it any justice. It will take a decade or more to get that place in order after this mess. A decade is being generous too, but in all reality, that country may never recover. . .

In terms of the US involvement, it is only a drop in the bucket, considering the expanse of the damage and humanitarian needs of the people. I would not be out on the streets after dark. Going back to the San Francisco quake, thank goodness, fires haven't broken out like it did then. If a fire breaks, that city will go up like a box of matches.

Now, back to the quake in a Haiti which is one of the worst I have seen. However, something like that can happen in the US, and on the scale worse than if it where to happen in San Francisco, San Diego, or Los Angeles. Since, earthquake activity is quite regular along the San Andreas fault line, building codes and construction have improved over the years. However, a disaster on the scale of Haiti or worse could happen along the New Madrid fault in the mid section of the United States.

What concerns me, is the fact, that major cities can be affected by such a quake, like, St. Louis, Memphis, and maybe damage as far as Chicago. In those cities they are ill prepared for another quake on scale of the one that hit the region in 1812. We are talking mass casualties and epic structural damage to buildings after a significant quake. Here is a little about 1812 quake, and keep in mind the area at the time was in the process of being settled, thus, being densely populated.

From the historical record, it has been estimated that at least one of them may have had a magnitude of 8.0 on the moment magnitude scale, though the numbers vary, because of such things as differences in models of seismic wave propagation in the Eastern US as well as different interpretations of epicenter locations.

There were numerous effects on the landscape in the most heavily affected area: a stream was impounded to form Reelfoot Lake, Tennessee; and the Mississippi River changed its course, creating geographic exclaves, including Kentucky Bend, along the state boundaries defined by the river.

Some sections of the Mississippi River appeared to run backward for a short time. Sand blows were common throughout the area, and can still be seen from the air in cultivated fields. Church bells were reported to ring as far as Boston, Massachusetts and York, Ontario (now Toronto) and sidewalks were reported to have been cracked and broken in Washington, D.C.[5] There were also reports of toppled chimneys in Maine.

Eliza Bryan[6] in New Madrid, Territory of Missouri, wrote the following eyewitness account in March, 1812.

On the 16th of December, 1811, about two o'clock, A.M., we were visited by a violent shock of an earthquake, accompanied by a very awful noise resembling loud but distant thunder, but more hoarse and vibrating, which was followed in a few minutes by the complete saturation of the atmosphere, with sulphurious vapor, causing total darkness. The screams of the affrighted inhabitants running to and fro, not knowing where to go, or what to do - the cries of the fowls and beasts of every species - the cracking of trees falling, and the roaring of the Mississippi - the current of which was retrograde for a few minutes, owing as is supposed, to an irruption in its bed -- formed a scene truly horrible.

en.wikipedia.org...

We don't hear much about the seismic activity along the New Madrid fault line. Plus, the construction of infrastructure in cities are ill prepared for a quake on the scale of Haiti or the previous New Madrid quake of 1812. It is a ticking time bomb. The fault is still active as well.

The zone remains active today. In recent decades minor earthquakes have continued.[5] New forecasts estimate a 7 to 10 percent chance, in the next 50 years, of a repeat of a major earthquake like those that occurred in 1811-1812, which likely had magnitudes of between 7.5 and 8.0. There is a 25 to 40 percent chance, in a 50-year time span, of a magnitude 6.0 or greater earthquake.[7]

Understanding of this earthquake zone is growing slowly in comparison to awareness of the San Andreas fault.

en.wikipedia.org...

Not to rain on anyone's parade here, but I thought I would mention it. A potential devastating disaster to keep in mind. . .


[edit on 19-1-2010 by Jakes51]

Originally posted by tunin
So it's not about France bitching with the USA, everybody is doing it. Everybody wants to help, not just the USA.

Originally posted by happinness
By the time all of them stop arguing, they could have built another runway by now. Stop moaning and get on with it!

Yeah, that is the problem, everyone wants to help, and much of that help is not top priority help. Right now it has to be prioritized according to need because there is not only a limited amount of runways, but a limited amount of ramp equipment, ramp space to park aircraft, and above all a limited amount of fuel (both for aircraft and ground vehicles). Let the US get in there and get the infrastructure priorities taken care of first, then all these other countries can ship in their lower priority goods.

Originally posted by blueorder
reply to post by Dermo

 

Haiti's own history is "discriminatory"< the massacre of white men, women and children as part of it's foundation

Lol, I never said it wasn't. Merely pointing out to that poster that you can't go and fairly bring up events that happened generations or centuries ago and use them as your argument.. especially when your own country has a similar history.

reply to post by Dermo






Please read Warnings for one-line or short responses

[edit on 19/1/10 by masqua]

Haiti is/was the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere.

Post earthquake, with psychotic criminal mobs running unchecked in the streets they have just become the worst place on the planet.

I have a friend who spent years there with an aid organization before the earthquake and he told me stories of thousands of orphaned children in the cities fending for survival on their own like stray dogs....and criminal groups that would often torture or kill the kids for amusement....this was before the earthquake.

What has not gotten much attention...the worst of the worst criminals escaped the prisons after the quake. The prison walls literally crumbled around them...and they are back on the streets as well.

4,000 prisoners escape after Haiti quake
www.myfoxchicago.com...

The fragile, corrupt government that existed before the quake is effectively gone.

This is Somalia, actually probably worse, in our backyard.

From a humanitarian standpoint, we have a responsibility...as human beings.

From a pure national security perspective we have no choice.

Extremists step into the void where their is poverty and lack of government, Iraq (after we toppled the government) war-torn Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan...Terrorist organizations are opportunists...and they have to be drooling over the opportunity of setting up shop a 3 day boat ride off the Florida coast...

We have NO CHOICE but to be in Haiti...and to go in heavy. Or simply let it become a tropical destination for terrorists in our backyard....and turn a blind eye to the horrors there. F*&^ any countries or talking heads that want to play politics with the issue. This isn't a head scratcher. Just my 2 cents.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by maybereal11]

[edit on 19-1-2010 by maybereal11]

There's no chance of building a second airport there in enough time to do any good. The terrain and a lack of specialized equipment makes it impossible. What needs to be done is to setup a couple military airports in the US on the East Coast to be clearing houses for the aid that's coming in. This way items can be prioritized as to what's needed and the number of flights can be cut down, while still delivering more supplies than they are now, because the aircraft will be fully loaded. This will help expidite the movement of critical supplies, because the people on the ground will know what is on each aircraft and be able to ensure where it is put when unloaded.

It will never happen.

Originally posted by JIMC5499
It will never happen.

Haha, indeed. What you just said is probably far too sensible and logical to be thought of by a Government anywhere on the planet.

It seems that being able to think of sensible, simple, logical idea's are not a requirement for public office these days.

reply to post by blueorder


I happen to be from the Caribbean, Puerto Rico we also practice Santeria and spiritism, I know my ancestors history and what you talking about is nothing but folklore, we have natives before the Spanish discovery that did invaded other islands call Carib they were cannibals and performed sacrifices but this was stopped after the Spanish colonization and introduction of Christianity.

Also the Islands were inundated with African slaves by Portugal and Spain once the native population were decimated.

Yes like any other country in the world is dark evil believes and practices, but that is part of human nature and exist everywhere, specially when is religious groups spewing diarrhea about evil and devil worshipers twisting reality many times.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by Dermo


Yes it was, that is part of our nations darkest moments and it had been many.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by stumason


Anybody who knows anything about logistics has already thought of this. The reason that it won't happen is that there is more than the people of Haiti at stake here. This has very little to do with Government, it has to do with the way that so called charitable organizations are run. Right now the most important thing to these organizations is the attention that is focused on Haiti. The brass ring for these organizations is either video of their people handing out stuff to the Haitians or an interview of their people in Haiti by a major news network, such as CNN. This is their bread and butter. This is what they use to solicit their donations.

I AM NOT STATING THAT THESE ORGANIZATIONS ARE DOING ANYTHING ILLEGAL.

Sometime Google the tax documents of some of these organizations. While the organization it self is a non-profit, some of the people at the top collect a nice paycheck, for what amounts to a part time job. It is these videos and interviews that keep the money coming in to pay those salaries.

If somebody tried to impliment a plan like this, the only people who could make it work would be the military. How long after something like this was implimented would it take for the media to start reporting stories about the military taking over the relief effort? How long until politicians start taking the heat? How long would this plan last after said heat was applied?

In my opinion this is the reason that there will continue to be chaos in the delivery of relief supplies to Haiti.

I've just noticed that there is a thread about why people dislike the USA. Well I if I get round to strolling over to that thread I can point out the responses of many US members of this thread as a reason.

The US HAS OCCUPIED HAITI. I'm not much of a fan of the French, but in this instance I applaud them loudly. I also applaud The Telegraph for reporting on it. They seem to be running a lot of anti-TPTB stories these days, so perhaps there is some small flicker of hope in regard to journalism.

Worse than occupying Hati the US military has been deliberately delaying much needed aid of all types by other countries and agencies.

Why has it taken until today (8 days in) for food and water to be airdropped?
Why has that airdrop only been of less than 15,000 litres of water and less than 15,000 meals?
How is it that TV cameras were the first there and recording from the dropsite before any Haitian people managed to get there?
Why haven't the US naval ships in port been using their desalination equipment to provide water for everyone?
Who gave the US military control of the country?
Who gave the US military the right to dispand the Haitian military?

The presence of the US military is omninous. They'll probably never leave. They want their hands on the oil which thus far has been fairly untapped. They want control of Haiti's deep water ports. They like Haiti's regional strategic location. They also want control over rebuilding and restructuring contracts. Naomi Klien of 'The Shock Doctrine' fame has been warning us about these moves for days now.

America, help don't hinder. Hand over control, cordination, rescue, medical, shelter, food and water, policing and the airport back to the Haitians or an independent body. Then get the military the hell out before they get any ideas about building permanent bases.

This whole thing stinks!

Your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by spookfish]

reply to post by spookfish


I have been following the news from the beginning, you are right the first air drop was today in mass coordination but it was one earlier last week, aid has been given to Haiti since the US arrived there with supplies, but that was limited to surrounded areas closes to the airport due to the logistic nightmare

France is just doing propaganda, don't fall for it.

The US military has taken over the grounds at the palace.

Very symbolic move.

Perhaps the French have reason to be suspicious.

US as the Southcomm just opened two new airports with the help of the Dominican Republic in Jacmel and Santo Domingo for the only purpose of bringing aid.

reply to post by JIMC5499


We have homestead AFB (i think it was decomissioned but is still in use by the air force in a limited way.) here in south florida that is already setup for that purpose. I've already seen on the news that relief flights are headed that way from Homestead.

Originally posted by marg6043
France is just doing propaganda, don't fall for it.

Propaganda for what?

Did you read what it was actually about? Did anyone in this thread for that matter?

A French Airbus carrying a field hospital was turned back and the French minister for cooperation mentioned to the French media that he would prefer the US didn't occupy the Airport.. And UK media did what it does best.. And sensationalized it.

Contrary to popular belief amongst Americans, the French don't give a crap about what the US does as long as it doesn't interfere in what they are doing or as long as the US media don't start back up that racket of abusing their country for collective collaboration needs. So how is it French propaganda?

AND.. US citizens dislike French much much more than French dislike US citizens.. that is awfully apparent. Ye seem to have a little one sided, anti France war going on for absolutely no reason.

Its kind of funny actually lol

France FTW!!

reply to post by Dermo


My friend two airports have been opened for more aid, that shows the need for more space on the ground to accommodate with the outpour of foreign help.

I stand behind the propaganda.