Haiti earthquake: France criticises US 'occupation'

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
So, I am to believe you google skills or my own eyes?

The very last thing you should be doing is attempting to somehow defend what the UN and the world community was doing in Haiti. Look what they did! It is a nation destroyed.

Stunned. I a m simply stunned that in the wake of utter human devastation, you hold up the very institutions and people who are responsible for the suffering.

At least now that the Americans are in Haiti, some good will happen. The US Military and good old fashioned American Know How will lift these people up not the UN or any other nation. America.

So you consider any attempt to help other countries a failure, a "human devastation", something that should not be done by any country except the USA?

You're a joke my friend and should be ashamed of what you're talking about.

Originally posted by tunin

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
So, I am to believe you google skills or my own eyes?

The very last thing you should be doing is attempting to somehow defend what the UN and the world community was doing in Haiti. Look what they did! It is a nation destroyed.

Stunned. I a m simply stunned that in the wake of utter human devastation, you hold up the very institutions and people who are responsible for the suffering.

At least now that the Americans are in Haiti, some good will happen. The US Military and good old fashioned American Know How will lift these people up not the UN or any other nation. America.

So you consider any attempt to help other countries a failure, a "human devastation", something that should not be done by any country except the USA?

You're a joke my friend and should be ashamed of what you're talking about.

You do not address the issue.

The fact is that the only nation capable of creating a fully functioning infrastructure in a timely manner is the US Military. The influx of well-meaning but undisciplined aid is not needed at this point and is indirectly KILLING Haitians. How difficult is that to understand?

All of the "help" from the UN has resulted in nothing. All you have to do is open your eyes and look around Haiti.


[edit on 19-1-2010 by mike_trivisonno]

UN is a machine which primary goal is to waste as much money as possible; but this shouldn't be mistaken with some lack of will to help from each single country. Often if not always, money leaves from each country, but it magically disappears during the travel; for example, see Oil for food scandal but sadly the examples are countless. The more UN keep away from Haiti, the more are the chances to see that poor Country to rise again: i find it incredible that UN still exist after the damage they have been able to do, worldwide.
United Nations Security Council is a joke, set up diametrically ot the opposite of every basic concept of democracy: whenever ONE's vote matters more then FOURTEEN's ones, then you are NOT in front of some status that can be called "democratic", it's just some parody of it.
VETO = OWNER, period.
That said, in this specific circumstances, i don't see what is supposed to be the issue, at least technically: did they file some flight plan and then they have been forced crash in the middle of atlantic ocean, or are we just talking about some delay occurred in the airport of a town that was just struck by a 7.3 earthquake? I'd like to know WHAT exactly is the issue.
Besides, as said, Ministry of Foreign Affairs' spokesman Bernard Valero, denied officially filing a protest so there are chances that we're talking about something that never happened.
All in all, i am MUCH more comfortable knowing that this mess is being handled by the USA than I would be if it was handled (just for example) by France: especially because France got litterally paralysed by some heavy snow, go figure what would have happened in case of some 7.3 earthquake.

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
You do not address the issue.

The fact is that the only nation capable of creating a fully functioning infrastructure in a timely manner is the US Military. The influx of well-meaning but undisciplined aid is not needed at this point and is indirectly KILLING Haitians. How difficult is that to understand?

All of the "help" from the UN has resulted in nothing. All you have to do is open your eyes and look around Haiti.
[edit on 19-1-2010 by mike_trivisonno]

And once again, after considering any help attempt a failure you claim that the USA is the only competent country that could occupy Haiti in a "violence-free" way. Great examples you have out there sr.

You're even claiming that the Brazil's military occupation is undisciplined when the basics of every military organization is discipline and order.

Why so much arrogance?

I'm pretty sure you never heard of Haiti before to say what you're saying.
It's clearly impossible to argue with you.

So I'll basically follow the well-known rule: "Do not feed the Troll", not anymore.

Stay sharp.
[]s.

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno

Originally posted by tunin

Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
So, I am to believe you google skills or my own eyes?

The very last thing you should be doing is attempting to somehow defend what the UN and the world community was doing in Haiti. Look what they did! It is a nation destroyed.

Stunned. I a m simply stunned that in the wake of utter human devastation, you hold up the very institutions and people who are responsible for the suffering.

At least now that the Americans are in Haiti, some good will happen. The US Military and good old fashioned American Know How will lift these people up not the UN or any other nation. America.

So you consider any attempt to help other countries a failure, a "human devastation", something that should not be done by any country except the USA?

You're a joke my friend and should be ashamed of what you're talking about.

You do not address the issue.

The fact is that the only nation capable of creating a fully functioning infrastructure in a timely manner is the US Military. The influx of well-meaning but undisciplined aid is not needed at this point and is indirectly KILLING Haitians. How difficult is that to understand?

All of the "help" from the UN has resulted in nothing. All you have to do is open your eyes and look around Haiti.


[edit on 19-1-2010 by mike_trivisonno]

Yes you should be ashamed of the bollocks you're spitting.The UN was there from the start just as Brazil and other South American countries.If you think you're spending and offering much, the EU is spending four times[429billion] that ammount, that is the organization so exclusive the ammount offered by the individual states[like France]...In fact the whole world is helping, get out of that tunnel and open your eyes...


p.s people in South America haven't forgotten all the economic hitmen and jackals you sent during the last century...



[edit on 19-1-2010 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
You know what. This is a clear case of: Damned if you do. Damned if you dont Either the US does too much or they dont do enough. It does not matter what the US does - there will always be people to complain about it.

you know, that's the thought i had when i read the first post...america is definitely the whipping boy in this...i can't understand why every country is getting their panties in a bunch over us sending troops. when fully loaded troops come into sight...hacking up your neighbor with a machete, for a bottle of water doesn't seem like a good idea anymore. what? do they have no memory of how quickly it has spun out of control before this?

The French showed up with one search dog. That's it, show's over, they got this one, time for everyone to go home, nothing to see here, move along.

china and UAE, both who have trillions in profits due to trade surplus, are left alone, while the US with trillions in debt gets the blame....i'm starting to think that the rest of these countries are really interested in bringing america down more than anything else.

ATTENTION ALL:

Please keep it civil and on topic!

Thank you.

reply to post by Foppezao


please do not think that americans have forgotton about our recent past...our CIA and other spooks have done some nasty and abhorant things around the world, but as in every country, you have bad people that gain power and the US is not exempt from that.
the massive scale of the devastation in haiti cannot possibly be handled quickly and efficiently with one tiny airport and a small damaged seaport.
thousands of people will die in the next few days, and that is nobodys fault.
the rescuers there are trying to do the best they can, with what they have.

an earthquake caused this death and destruction...not any country

OK people, so much patriotism, so much bitterness, so much looking into past deeds. . .

Please realize that it doesn't matter what France may say, is nothing but propaganda.

US is in Charge of the northern and southern command and no France.

So If France wanted the job they could have it, but they are not because after all the only superpower fully functioning in this side of the world is actually the US.

So wanted or not like it or no US is in Charge right now and that is the end of it.

Have a nice day patriots and bashes.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
I guess France is now feeling guilty of leaving Haiti to become the mess that is now, perhaps if they have stayed in Haiti thing would have been better.

Marge, France has had no control of Haiti since the end of the 18th century! Quite how you can blame today's mess in Haiti on the French is somewhat of a mystery.

However, I personally have no issue with the US taking control. After all, you have resources in theatre that no-one else has. Even our own Navy only has a handful of ships in the Carribbean. As long as the US leaves afterwards I see no issue, but then you always do. How many times has the Us invaded Haiti in order to "restore democracy" or some such. Quite a few times that I can recall.

Originally posted by Jakes51
You are right, and they contributed to the war effort during the Second World War. Yes, that story is for another time and another thread. I never meant to make it look as though I was bashing the French, because I was not. However, you cannot deny that the bulk of the liberation force that removed the jackboot from the throat of France was the US.

I know it's off topic, but if we're all correcting each other....

The UK and Commonwealth had more troops during Operation Overlord than the US, by quite a margin too! Only in the months following did US troops overtake the amount of british troops in Normandy and even then, it was a fairly even split. It wasn't the "bulk" of Allied forces at all..... Most US troops and resources were focussed in the Pacific.

reply to post by enca78


It is not the US soldier who should be there, it's the French ones, they leave their own people in a deep #, it was ok to colonise them but helping is something else...........

reply to post by ufopunx


Another person who knows feck all about the history of Haiti....

Come on guys, I am English so hate France by default, but you have to get your facts straight first!

Haiti - Read this before becoming a muppet....

France has had no control over Haiti since the end of the 18th century. napolean sent an Army to take the island back from the slave revolt and failed. Most of the white French colonists were killed and what was left as the only country in the world born of a slave revolt.

Blaming france for ANY issues in Haiti today is like blaming Norway for what the Vikings did.

Originally posted by jimmyx
china and UAE, both who have trillions in profits due to trade surplus, are left alone, while the US with trillions in debt gets the blame....i'm starting to think that the rest of these countries are really interested in bringing america down more than anything else.

I think many have forgotten that old adage...

Be Careful What You Wish For.

Why doesn't criticism from [of all people] the French Surprise me anymore?

reply to post by stumason


You are right, Haiti was not always the poor country it is right now, it was a prosperous port at one time that France, took advantage of until it was defeated.

Then with the help of the US, Britain and France they were force to give away whatever gold they have left to pay for retribution to France through heavy embargoes.

Then on top of that until the last century they were forced into heavy loans by the same countries to become indebted something they were able to repaid due to their economy in the 40s.

After that US intervention and supporting corrupted governments Because of money had helped the first established Republic in the Caribbean become a nation of nothing but aid recipient citizens and the poorest nation in this side of the world.

Still much of the aid never actually reach the citizens, the different private and religious aid groups are the ones that keep the people alive.

Anyway this time is different we are not fighting for a Colony possession this about humanitarian effort and who is more equipped to help get it there and enforce security.

Sorry if I just posted out of spite, I am human after all but I know my history.

If we could bag the bullsh*t on this thread we could take care of Haiti's fertilizer needs for the next 100 years.

France is France. Anybody who expected anything else out of them needs to start facing reality.

I really love the 10,000 troops phrase the media is throwing around. Considering that over 4500 of the 10,000 are the crew of the Carl Vinson, not to mention the crews of the other ships. Then consider that all of the military Doctors, Nurses and Corpsmen are considered troops. Hmmn. Not much of an invasion force left, is there.

This picture might help you understand why some planes have been turned away.



It shows the ramp at the main airport in Haiti. Not too much room, is there? Right now their problem is that there is too much help being delivered. I've been trading e-mails with a few military friends who are there right now. The airport is a total fustercluck. Every aid group that can charter a Cessna is trying to get into that airport. Every one of these groups thinks that they are carrying precious cargo, that will make a difference only if they can get it there right now. Every one of these groups wants video of their cargo being taken off of the plane and given to the Haitians so that they can use the video to raise funds for their organizations. There is no organization at all. Planes are coming in only half loaded and are taking up ramp space, because there is nobody to unload them. Then when they are finally unloaded, what is on board isn't needed right now. I've heard that one plane came in with 1000 5 gallon buckets full of toys and games. The plane that has everybody's panties in a bunch, probably requested to land when the ramp was full and didn't have enough fuel to loiter until a place cleared for it, so rather than take the heat for not being able to deliver it's cargo, the pilot claimed that he was denied permission to land, which was technically correct, until the anti-military media got ahold of the story.


By the way, a modified Ohio class sub can cary and launch over 122 Tomahawk cruise missiles. We have at least 2 of these subs. There aren't that many targets in Venezuala. Who needs Haiti?

reply to post by JIMC5499


Actually US will be increasing the US troops to 14, 000 and more in standby, also Portugal will be sending more troops also.

reply to post by marg6043

Troops, doctors and aid workers flowed into Haiti even while victims of the quake still struggled to find a cup of water or a handful of food and, in some cases, fight off looters, as the AP's John Mone reports. (Jan. 18)

reply to post by marg6043


well you are "human", but if you are a white human, just get on bended knee you were not around at the time of the formation of this 200 year old independent nation, they would have gutted you like a pig.


Now back to the reality, many countries have gone through trauma over the last two centuries, China, Cambodia, Germany etc etc, traumas arguably greater than this, yet Haiti was in the dump even before this earthquake.

Time to stop infantalising these people like a Victorian colonialist and hold them accountable for their own actions