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Haiti earthquake: France criticises US 'occupation'

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posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by spookfish
 


Dude WTF are you smoking. Cuz whatever caused that rant must be some primo stuff and I want some.

As much as I sometimes dislike the USA for all the crap it does. I can't fault it when it comes to sending aid to other countries.

Now you can second guess and arm chair quarter back this disaster all you want. However, living in miami all my life since 72 and seeing hurricanes roll in, especially andrew. I can say that disaster relief has to be the hardest thing you can ever do.

You need tons of cordination and experience to get through a disaster. You'll excuse me if I don't have full confidence in the French when it comes to dealing with things of this nature. Or any other country for that matter. I can probably count on my hand the number of countries that have adequate enough disaster relief experience.




posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by grey580
 


You are my hero today,



People sitting comfortably in their butts like me can look at the news and know the tremendous effort that is taking to help the millions of needy in Haiti, but those basher out there (I am one of them) would take everything and twist it so they can have something to talk about.

How about any of us getting off our butts and start doing something to help the Haitians?.

No is easier to do nothing and just complain.

Thanks for your post.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by mike_trivisonno
The US Military is going to be in Haiti for a very long time.

Screw the French. France had a good opportunity to keep their mouth shut here.

All you freaks ragging about the US Military are mentally deficient. No one on the planet is going to get anything done in this French-inspired wasteland until the Evil, Satanic, Vile, Disgusting, Brutal, Pillaging, Baby-Killing US Military rebuild the roads. Nothing.

If left to the UN and the rest of you losers, Haiti would simply descend further into despair. All of you "socially conscious" pinheads mimic Gallic superiority with aplomb while doing nothing! Nothing!

Every single relief effort is going to grow directly out of the logistics and communications and transportations systems installed and maintained by the US Military.

You people and your infantile understanding of America and the American people are sickening to me.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by mike_trivisonno]


This is exactly why someone somewhere should be scrutinizing US motives; sheeple in the US get all badass with phony emotional nationalism, wrap the colored cloth on a stick around themselves, and refuse to question the govt each and every time.

What I find hilarious about all the "pride" in the US haitian effort is that the united states is directly responsible for one of the worst ongoing man made catastrophic humanitarian disasters since WWII: in a place called IRAQ. Millions upon millions of iraqis have suffered at the hands of US motives.. sanctions killed children, post invasion US political royalty allowed the iraqis to rot in fk'n homeless foodless squalor, raw sewage, DU poisoning, unexploded ords, spotty electricity... as a matter of fact many places in iraq that used to be suburbs have been reduced to haiti like ghettos and left to fester.

Haiti separates the boogie-man nations of cuba & venezuela, this area of the chess board is a good capture for the empire and it's really sad when the only nation to have someone point that out publicly are the french.

Nationalism is just an excuse to hate people you've never met and take pride in things you had nothing to do with.

www.youtube.com/v/gQEcMTSgg5w&hl=en



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by GovtFlu
 


Sorry but after living in a colony of the US all my life in the Caribbean I can talk freely, Haiti doesn't have anything US wants actually that is why they have control of PR and Virgin Islands, that is the control US have in case of any problems.

US already have control also with the SOUTHCOMM, it doesn't have the need of a devastated littler poor Island like Haiti.

It doesn't take a genius to separate the sensationalism from facts.

Is a humanitarian effort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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Marg has it right. The US is doing what we do when a catastrophe strikes...the military is used to begin the relief effort. There is no, repeat no, entity anywhere on Earth with the logistic capability of the US military, though I suppose private carriers such as FedEx/UPS combined might be somewhere close.

The organization of this effort is a nightmare given life. Do you honestly think those soldiers, sailors, and airmen don't know whats going on inland on Haiti? Do you honestly think they aren't straining every sinew to get the snags ironed out? If you think they aren't, you really don't know anything at all about the military of the United States.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by spookfish



Why has it taken until today (8 days in) for food and water to be airdropped?
Why has that airdrop only been of less than 15,000 litres of water and less than 15,000 meals?
How is it that TV cameras were the first there and recording from the dropsite before any Haitian people managed to get there?
Why haven't the US naval ships in port been using their desalination equipment to provide water for everyone?
Who gave the US military control of the country?
Who gave the US military the right to dispand the Haitian military?


It hasn't. There were drops before, and they went so smashingly well the military had to regroup and try something different.

See above

Logic, please try it. Imagine announcing a drop to say..100 starving thirsty Haitians. Imagine what would happen as that drop hits the ground. Do you imagine they would line up patiently and wait for their ration? If so, could you come back and play again when the haze wears off?

They have - 40,000 gallons a day I think I read.

The Haitian ambassador and President, when they SPECIFICALLY asked the US for help a few minutes after the quake.

WHAT Haitian military???? Do you mean the MINUSTAH forces that the Haitians hate and who have been murdering them for years? Yeah, that;'ll work well. The few troops of Minustah left after the majority of them have been KILLED in the quake??

I am all for spouting opinions, but at least look informed before you do.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
I stand behind the propaganda.


Ok.. but propaganda for what? There has to be a reason for it if you are going to call it propaganda.

Do you think that the French government wants to turn its people against the USA? Im regularly in France and believe me, that couldn't be further from the truth. The French don't care about the US - they only voice their opinion's quickly and loudly when they are annoyed. Its people from the US that seem to always have a problem with France.

And the French Airbus was clearly turned away by the US occupied Airport and allowed to land the next day. The comment was made between those times. There is no disputing any of this. So they are not making it up.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by Dermo
Wasn't the more recent US OCCUPATION OF HAITI also brutal?

No need to point fingers at them when your history is just as discriminatory


Care to source that??? Any evidence of this other than your ramblings on your keyboard???

I'm really getting sick and tired of this trend lately here on ATS...

IF YOU ARE GOING TO STATE YOUR DAMNED OPINION AS IF IT WERE FACT,

SOURCE IT!!!!

Otherwise, state it as opinion, or keep your yap shut! This is the way of the TROLL, and I for one am sick and tired of it!!!!

This is ATS whose motto is Deny Ignorance, not Display Ignorance as Fact!!!!



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 




IF YOU ARE GOING TO STATE YOUR DAMNED OPINION AS IF IT WERE FACT,

SOURCE IT!!!!

Otherwise, state it as opinion, or keep your yap shut! This is the way of the TROLL, and I for one am sick and tired of it!!!!


Well guess what.. IT IS FACT so shut your own Yap lol. Anyone who knows history knows that the US occupied Haiti for twenty odd years previous to WW2 as a result of bad debts.

Do they just show you how to type in gigantic black letters where you are from? Or how to simulate an attitude problem through ASCII



The United States occupied the island from 1915 to 1934



Accusations of "indiscriminate" killing by US Marines were formally investigated by US Brigadier General George Barnett who concluded that 3250 "natives" were killed.[33] A later investigation noted that 98 Marines perished in the conflict as well.


Clicky

As I said..

Wasn't the more recent US OCCUPATION OF HAITI also brutal?


Still have some sort of problem or are we resolved?



[edit on 19/1/10 by Dermo]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by enca78


United Nations officials must investigate and clarify the dominant US role in the earthquake-ravaged Haiti, Bernard Kouchnet, the French minister said.

US forces last week turned back a French aid plane carrying a field hospital from the damaged, congested airport in the capital of Port-au-Prince, prompting a complaint from the French co-operation minister, Alain Joyandet. The plane landed safely the following day.


Oh in relation to my other post apparently i was just imagining it obviously france sees it the same way as i do

www.t elegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)


I find it odd France would be critical of our relief efforts. Haiti used to be a French colony. Could it be they think were treading on their turf? Get a life. As for not letting an aid or many aid flights in at this point, consider this; the main airport in Haiti may have had God knows what level of damage. I don't mean buildings. If they had any still standing, I woulden't go in them. But the communications and ATC infrastructure is a whole other matter. (ATC is just gone. And it diden't excite me before the quake...)

Then you have the almost certain possibility of damage to the run ways and taxi ways. We can lay down what is in effect a metal mesh to allow flights while we work on repairing the pavement. But you shoud really have been trained to do so. Landing on a prefab mesh feels different then landing on pavement. Now France of couse knows this, and their military is very good at landing on this material. I have no trouble with the French military doing what ever the hell they can to help Haiti.

But if you have a French aid flight coming that is civilian, unless you have some experience with this mesh, you and a lot of other people could have a really bad hair day. Although a pilot, I never did land on this mesh, but I have been told the sensory feedback, which you need for take off's, and more important landings, is critical. I have no idea if we used this mesh. (They stopped taking my calls a long time ago, yes I felt hurt...)

One of the very real problems is ATC. In a very, I mean very short period of time, the US military got it up and running. It allows us to turn a goat path into a runway. I was very pleased when I saw on the news (sorry I don't recall which channel), that the Marines with their hovercrafts were able to augment access even with the docks destroyed. In closing, there may be any number of reasons any ones aid may have been held up.

The simple and I think reason for this is there is only so much space to go around at the airport. Add to the problem with earth quake damage on runnays and taxi ways, that has to be dealt with. You may have worse damage below ground It's underground and we can't see it. Once in a while we have taxi ways made with pavement that is less in depth then runways, and less reinforced . It's sometimes assumed that as taxi ways don't have planes slam into them, they don't have to be as strong. Thats a bad idea as we have had commercial aircraft land on taxi ways.

I wish to commend the Haitian people who stand up against this horrible disaster. And I wish to thank everyone who continue to help. (yes even the French)



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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OK, chill out with the personal jabs. Warnings and more to follow for those that can't post with decorum.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Dermo
 


Wow, was that really so hard??? And you are still guilty of 'quote mining' to 'prove' your point... Let's look at the entire 'US Occupation' section, shall we:


The United States occupied the island from 1915 to 1934. This occupation was initially resisted by a peasant revolt termed the "cacos" insurrection which was led by Charlemagne Péralte. Accusations of "indiscriminate" killing by US Marines were formally investigated by US Brigadier General George Barnett who concluded that 3250 "natives" were killed.[33] A later investigation noted that 98 Marines perished in the conflict as well.[33] The Haitian administration dismantled the constitutional system, built roads, and established the National Guards that ran the country after the Marines left.

Scholars agree that Haiti was in much better shape after the occupation than before, but some accuse the US of estabishing a "shaky" foundation that left the country with a doomed financial structure. This was due to a 1922 $40 million loan owed to the US as well as the country's national treasury and to the Banque Nationale owned by a New York bank.[33] The result was a financial system that siphoned the country's wealth to offshore creditors instead of reinvesting it in the country's economy.[33]

The US occupation forces established a boundary between Haiti and the Dominican Republic by taking disputed land from the latter. When the US left in 1937, Dominican dictator Rafael Trujillo – in an event known as the Parsley Massacre – ordered his Army to kill Haitians living on the Dominican side of the border. [33][34] In a "three-day genocidal spree", he murdered between 10,000 and 20,000 Haitians.[33] He then developed a uniquely Dominican policy of racial discrimination, Antihaitianismo ("anti-Haitianism"), targeting the mostly-black inhabitants of his neighboring country.
Source.

So I fail to see proof of US brutality. I would argue that your use of the word recent was misleading at best, decietful at worse, since 1915 is hardly recent. And I would state that your lack of sourcing your 'facts' until challenged, then 'quote mining' once challenged to get the fact to fit your position show emphatically that you are indeed trolling here in this thread....

Now we are resolved...



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Dermo
 


Actually, I thought the sarcasm was obvious.

First the Spaniards committed wholesale genocide. Then the French use it for Slave run Plantations. No room for anyone to criticize and in this case the argument is silly beyond belief.

Due to its location, the US stepping in was without a doubt the best possible outcome for the victims. Any other plan would have been irrational.

Like somebody mentioned earlier I think, the French sent a tiny team. They never seem to give more than token help at any time under any circumstances.

We clearly can not afford to help Haiti, yet do you hear any of us complaining about that? No, we instead call for quicker action and stand in line to write the checks that will be Haiti's future.

As to the UN? Well the leaderships family and friends will need to find other money to steal. With Clinton's help they should be able to steal quite a lot before this is over. At least this way the initial help is actually making it to Haiti.

To those that claim they were already helping out. Is a country in perpetual civil war where the citizens live off $2 a day, something to be proud of? One bottle of water and one MRE daily ration is 4 days normal wages for a Haitian prior to the quake. Good job folks
You have lifted them to the point of starvation in the best of times while a neighboring country with the same resources is doing well.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Wow.. you can write normally.

And that shows how it wasn't brutal where? There was 3000+ death toll in a 19 year occupation where there were reports of "indiscriminate" killing of Natives. Thats known as brutal. Sorry but maybe you should look up the definition.

Also notice the word "More" previous to the word "Recent". And take into context that the poster I was replying to was talking about the French occupation from centuries ago and **Voila**.. you have a conversation that makes sense before you trolled your way in and started shouting your head off with your Caps lock button on and your gigantic font size.

You should also research the word "Deceitful", "Misleading" and "English" (As in the language).

**Conversation over**


reply to post by Blaine91555
 




They never seem to give more than token help at any time under any circumstances.


Im going to have to jump in and defend my French neighbors AGAIN because this is just a French bashing thread and I have plenty of French friends, ex GF etc and the general population are the complete opposite to the picture being drawn of them by the Yanks here.

EU governments and commission aid to Haiti $575million.. click

Of that, specific French aid total's - $14.4 million. I wouldn't call that nothing..

And again, I must point out that the French Minister for Cooperation merely voiced his concern that a US occupied Airport had turned their Airbus around and that it would hinder aid. They didn't exactly attack the US or anything.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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I dont blame The U.S for wanting to help. but they do seem to take over things without being asked.

Like they completly took over the airport. and are running it. not that they didnt do a good job or anything.

soon they will be ordring other aid agencys, and countrys around over there.

They do seem to be dominating, which could damage their image. Other countrys who suffer a similar disater in the future, may well refuse help from the US. as they want to be in control.



[edit on 19-1-2010 by MR BOB]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Dermo
 


If you heard the news today, or at least read then, very clearly US have now two more airports at their disposition to alleviate the problems that one small airport was causing with the air traffic

When you have most of the world pouring aid and sending their own airplanes with supplies you don't need to do any math to figure that is a logistical nightmare.

US announced today that now they will be able to have incoming aircrafts into those two airports.

Is a reason why France airplane along with one from the UK and many others were diverted.

Sensationalism is been going wide spread no only by the media but also by many here in ATS that prefer to post wildly to cause debates and a stir while thinking that most members do not research the real issues and knows what the truth is.

Read my lips people,

Is not invasion of Haiti,

Is not US take over for gold or oil,

Is no going to be a annexation of Haiti as a state,

And people are getting the help they need.

France can now land all the darn airplanes they want



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by MR BOB
 


Again, US is in charge of the SOUTHCOMM, they do have control of what is going in Haiti as per UN countries responsibilities to deal with global security.

And BTW it was asked by the President of Haiti itself and the Ambassador even when US didn't have their permission.

Please once again read the facts

www.globalsecurity.org...



[edit on 19-1-2010 by marg6043]



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by GovtFlu
 


Sorry but after living in a colony of the US all my life in the Caribbean I can talk freely, Haiti doesn't have anything US wants actually that is why they have control of PR and Virgin Islands, that is the control US have in case of any problems.

US already have control also with the SOUTHCOMM, it doesn't have the need of a devastated littler poor Island like Haiti.

It doesn't take a genius to separate the sensationalism from facts.

Is a humanitarian effort !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Being close to venezuela & cuba makes haiti very valuable... "You never want a serious crisis to go to waste," said obamas Reichsführer Rahm Emanuel, and an occupation force of 10,000 Marines ensures this crisis won't go to waste. I'm still not convinced that the US operated HARRP in near-by Arecibo Puerto Rico isn't responsible... TPTB have proven they have no qualms about devastating an entire nation or two to further their sociopath goals... why should haiti be any different.

It's a perfect rouse to put troops / assets near the boogie-men chavez / castro and scoop up the one asset haiti has: plenty of able bodied unemployed ready for hire mercenaries...

In 6 months when the whole place is still a cluster f of suffering and they're launching routine patrols aimed at chavez while building mega military bases after installing michelle obama as queen of haiti (lol), or another puppet.. I'll just say I told you so.

iraq was basically hit by a govt erasing, prison clearing 20.0 earthquake called gw bush... what a shining example of how much the US govt cares about being unselfish humanitarians full of virtue.

The US govt lies about almost everything and nothing ever turns out as it seems, yet people trust them again and again.. that right there defines insanity.



posted on Jan, 19 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by GovtFlu
 


Trust me Castro is not longer in control of Cuba. PR has always been the highest Priority Territory for Caribbean security in the Area, they do not need Haiti.



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