$Two Thousand Dollars$ to spend on supplies -

Your propane should be stored in the largest refillable tank you can, but I argue that the infrastructure for refilled 20 pound tanks is available in many gas stations (if times are not *that* bad) and by using this device:
Propane Transfer Adapater

You can both heat your van, and also transfer to / refill / barter to replenish the smaller 1 pound propane cylinders, giving you yet another source of barter income. Not many people will have that device, and it will be a godsend to you when everyone else has run out of propane and you have a monopoly on the local market as a supplier.

Because the propane must be upside down to refill the 1 pound cylinder, I argue that the 20 pound tank is more managable to invert in this position than a larger 50 pound tank. 20 pound tanks can also be easily exchanged in gas stations everywhere.

As for stills, they require fuel or propane to produce high quality (high proof) distilled products. If you don't have a still, you can take advantage of fractional freezing to produce inferior products such as apple jack.
Fractional Freezing (Wikipedia)

Plan on varmints. If you have chickens, sheep, goats, etc. plan on coyotes, or packs of wild dogs. My neighbor had chickens which were allowed to free range during the day, and were put up at night. Somehow, coyotes managed to wipe out the flock. He told me about it last night. I told him I would start looking out for them, and trying to track some. I figure if I kill a few, the rest of them will make like trees and leave. Problem; I've never hunted coyotes and don't own a rifle. Is there any chance of setting up a blind and luring them in close enough to take them with a recurve or a crossbow? If nothing else, I'm looking forward to the challenge, but what are my chances?
Also considering traps, but I don't really like traps. Inflicting pain on animals goes against my nature. (A$$holes. No problem.)
Anyone who is looking to survive and keep animals has to plan on varmints and be ready for them. Traps, guns, whatever it takes. Remember, coyotes kill rabbits, which take food from your larder.

Thank you 12gauge and 4Dummies.
It is your kind of insight that makes this sight what it is. I have turned on more lurkers who have learned some 'truth' in a variety of areas.
But the fam and I stay on the survival area.

The more you say the more we know.

Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip
reply to post by eleven:eleven

 

Eleven, I left a link in that post that gives bleach to water ratio, but here you go...

Add 1/8 teaspoon (or 8 drops) of regular, unscented, liquid household bleach for each gallon of water, stir it well and let it stand for 30 minutes before you use it.

Aren't Iodine based drops more effective and much more compact to carry for the amount they can sanitize?

[edit on 17-1-2010 by DJM8507]

reply to post by DJM8507


Well I don't know about the ratios on that but bleach is considerably cheaper and if you're going to bug in so to speak, bleach would be more practical. Or that awesome filter I saw posted a couple of pages back (might pick that one up myself) would be outstanding for "house" use as it does seem to be quite heavy. If you're of the bugging out persuasion there are much lighter methods obviously. But I would think if bugging out you would want a location to bug out to, in which case those heavier items laid up ahead of time would be of great use.

As far as the 2000 bucks you're looking to spend, have you heard of aquaponics? Very neat idea and if you have a green thumb or are willing to invest some time into it, you could have a totally self sustaining system of food.

Aquaponics on wikipedia

Obviously not the best idea for an apartment, but if you have a house and a little bit of land it would be a heck of a way to make yourself sustainable. Throw in a few chickens and rabbits or other small animal, get yourself a decent little garden going and you've got yourself a pretty good self sustaining setup for fairly cheap.

Guarding all that stuff is another matter entirely. Obviously a .22 rifle is going to be invaluable for hunting small game but not to great in the self defense department. I would suggest a pump action shotgun, Mossberg 500 or Remington 870, I have an 870 myself and it's quite customizable. Different barrel lengths and shell types make it a very versatile weapon for property and self defense. Can find a decent used one for around 300-350 or so.

If you choose to pick up a pistol and this is a sitx type thing we're talking about here, you won't have to worry about concealing it very much, in fact I would wear openly. Something chambered in a .45 ACP or .40 S&W would be the minimum I would go on a handgun as far as self defense. Obviously any bullet will kill, but you want something that will do the job with the least amount of rounds and time needed.

Should you pick up any firearms I would also stress that you practice with them regularly. You don't want the first time you draw your weapon to be in a life or death situation. Heck you don't even want your 100th time to be a life or death situation. Also most ranges, should you have access to one, will offer safety and training classes for a fee. These are well worth your time and money.

If you've got any more questions please ask, I frequent a few survivor and prepper oriented forums and would be more than happy to U2U anyone who is interested in learning a bit more on the subject.

Only 2K$ thats only good for about 4 weeks.
the event you are not preparing for is what is
coming. The SUN. you need to find deep shelter.
the bad news is : it will take about 3 years to
exit your deep shelter. and well no one
knows what resources will be left after the
solar torching.

reply to post by eleven:eleven


why even bother? dont worry the world is not gonna end.

If your gonna stay put build a woodgas generator, it can be used if built right to run a car,tractor,boat or lorry so it can be used to generate electricity.

Woodgas or gasifier

I will be building one of these and I have plans from FEMA that where written when they expected a fuel or possible fuel shortage that was reprinted in 1989 here is a link for it

Plans

Being in the UK we have a hard time buying guns but I would make sure had a way of cleaning water, hunting/fishing equipment, good knife, wood axe,saw, some sort of crossbow for killing people (it might have to happen). More importantly a good set of clothing. I would prefer to bug out as its harder for people to find and take from you so would try my best to travel as light as possible.

Mind you you could just spend 2k on all guns and ammo and take what you want from the unpre-paired and weak, theres no getting away from it if you have a gun your nieghbour does'nt and you want his water food ect its yours.

I would like to think people will help one another out in these kind of senarios but I would not plan for it.

[edit on 18-1-2010 by jpmail]

why guns and ammo? if you have wepons then wont you be the first people to get hunted down for ownership of firearms ?


200 Tin Cat Food
GPS Tool
DVD Collection "Ray mears ultimate survival guide series"
Laptop
Wind up mini generator
Hunting knife
Extra Socks
2 pair extra underpants
wooly hat
Penknife
Tent material
back up of all personal data on bomb-proof external hard drive, or 64gb USB sticks, burry in thick lead lined box in garden
make a will

maybe change the car to something more practical like a cheap LandRover, maybe drop in some NOS . hahaha

what do you need all this stuff for? Expecting trouble?

Here's a great place to start your journey. Don't just jump in & start spending money. Make a plan. Then rethink it. Good luck.


www.survivalblog.com...

It may seem a small thing, but as part of preperation for suvival without society - it may be a good idea to get all family teeth checked out at dentist and any works or fillings done.
you can patch up a wound, but imaging getting infected tooth from cavity that u didnt know u had. it wont be no fun doing a worst case senario DIY extraction with a pair of pliers

If you give me that 2K I will 100% guanatee you in writing that nothing will happen to you.

I promise.

Originally posted by seethelight
If you give me that 2K I will 100% guanatee you in writing that nothing will happen to you.

I promise.

Dont listen to him, I can better that offer: give me the $2000 and i will 100% guarantee nothing will happen, Plus you'll also receive from me $400 of rebate coupons, free e-book on accupuncture, and a "priceless" healing crystal - all as free bonuses (priceless!)
plus if you order now you'll get free lifetime subscription to "watchtower" magazine

I think you really need to consider what to do if you only have $2K to spend. It sounds like a lot, but it's not really all that much if you're starting from scratch.

Since you have an acre of land, I'm going to assume you have typical garden and house tools, so I won't list anything like that.

Water - You need to have a reliable source of clean water. This does not include hand pumps. The drip system from the first page (or so) is the best idea. Even though the filter is small enough to get bacteria, it's not small enough to get viruses. You'll still need your bleach for that job. You may want to find bulk drink mixes to make the water a little more interesting.

Food - While it's all well and good to have a long term plan, you'll need food right away. You can't plant seeds and watch them grow if you die after a couple weeks. Dehydrated foods, MREs, beans, rice, etc. will keep you going while you're trying to figure out your long term plans. Don't forget spices including salt. It's a must!

Fuel - Propane is good, but you will run out sometime and $2K won't buy a ton of tanks. I would be prepared to use your propane during the rough times, but know how to make a fire. Don't use your propane to boil water. It's a waste. Since you have land, get a few cords of firewood. It should be cheap and it'll last a good while. If you don't have an ax and maul, buy them.

Firearms - Your choice of shotgun and a cheap larger caliber rifle. Anything else is just going to eat up your budget and won't be effective for hunting.

Shelter - You have your house. You'll never totally zombie-proof it, but it's better than trying to live out of a backpack for the rest of your life. Remember, this isn't a movie and you're not Rambo.

Medical - Bleach. Peroxide. Bandages. Splint. Femenine items. Antibiotics (even though I hate them). Iodine.

Alcohol - Multi-purpose including a nice smooth buzz. Buy your hard liquor. Distilling liquor shouldn't be something your learn in the field. However, making beer/wine/mead/cider is easy. I don't mean Bud. I mean like any kind of sugar water + yeast = fermented (alcoholic) drink. It won't taste like anything but even table sugar + water + yeast = beer-type drink. You can make this as complicated or as easy as you want.

Storage - My local Home Depot sells 5 gallon buckets and lids for about $3.50 per set. Although these aren't food rated, you should pick up at least 10 of these. I'd go with twice that easy. These work for everything listed above. I have about 40 buckets at home that I use for making beer, storage, gardening, etc.

That's about all for now. Hope this helps.

I am along the same lines of thinking as 11-11 I want to bug in but I have already made my claim of land and its not ownable. Thats all I can say with out giving it away...its a river/creek...no secret!
I plan to have a home base, but also a teritory of about 8 miles by 2 miles wide.

Security of the home base is of high importance!

Start now! plant some of....oh the name evades me.... nasty, nasty lil thorn shrubery, I also promote and try to invite hornets to build nests around my homebase, random holes, known tripwires"roots/limbs", and a couple of those old gas station style bell ringer lines to lay out...I know if a car gets on my road 1/2 mile before they get here, and these are concealed by gravel and such, so unless they look real hard they never know they set them off.

The hornet nests are great I keep some old wire tied to the limbs the nests are on, and if a tresspasser keeps coming a lil tug and they start making trax real fast!

I live trap coyotes, a local guy buys them to train hunting dogs, and have caught some other undesirables while trying to catch the coyotes.
Never underestimate a pissed off coon let loose on you, or any other wild animal, that could be kept in a live trap close to your homebase and set on a tripwire to be let loose upon a tresspasser, and no before someone says its cruel, I would rotate them, and not keep the same animal caged for very long!

I feed crows and bluejays, they are year round animals that don't migrate, and are natural alarms, if a bluejay is sounding off, or a crow there is something its after or alarming others about, squirrels too! great alarms!

Those garage door safety laser things that stop the door from closing if there is something blocking the beam are also great, and if lined up good can cover great distances, and make great invisible trip wires, alarm trippers, these can be purchased for autos, mostly used for security in convertables and motion alarms...reason for bringing this up is they are 12 volt systems and you can set a lil bitty lawnmower 12 volt battery with these and it will last months and as much as a year without need for charging....the items draw very little if any energy unless tripped, and the sky is the limit as to what you want to happen or hook up to the trigger you just made, it could be a noise alarm, blasting cap, etc...etc....

Yes I know I'm a twisted individual, no I'm not paranoid, but if I needed to be I could be very easy, just easier to be able to think crazy stuff, and not have to become crazy all of a sudden if some wild senerio happens.

If this is the kinda stuff your thinking of 11-11 I hope this puts some more/new ideas in your head, if not sorry for this silly sounding rant.

I get this strange feeling you are very very close to me, south of a capital city in the mid-west......cool...thats as close as I could say to my own home, although most on here know where I live from the years of talkin.

there's a lot of good ideas here,thank you for making this thread.

my situation is different than yours but a few similar issues.
I plan on a bug out,i have a two person sea kayak,camping and fishing gear.
I can hug the coast or go out to sea,can even sleep on it(difficult and uncomfortable but doable)

I'm plagiarizing this line but can't give credit cuz i don't remember the movie but the reason i don't carry a gun is-
"If the time comes i need a gun they will be lying all around"


also,for electronics,read about Faraday cages,does no good to have electronics if they are useless because of an emp

as far as dogs giving away your position,in a sit-x there will be a lot of strays running around too so i wouldn't worry about it.
more of a plus than a minus in my opinion,if they are what gets you done in you had ninjas or special forces after you and you were done anyways.

Why does everyone say a Ruger 22?

It would seem to me that a 9mm would be the way to go, if you are looking for commonly found ammo...in a sitX, I'd be looking to constantly restock ammo...not just depend on what I had...(maybe I'm missing something though)

Personally, I'd have a LOT of cigarettes, and I don't smoke, but I bet it would be great currency in a sitX setting....

Booze is another good one, though harder and more room to store...

MREs (although freeze-dried foods are even longer/cheaper), canned goods, jarred goods are best foodstuffs, if you have dry goods, just make sure vermin can't get to them...

Try some of the Off-the-grid guides for how to do solar rig up, etc. if you want to maintain electricity, though that is really going to be a lot of work/storage for such a luxury.

Candles, candles, and more candles and oil lanterns...

First aid supplies

Melee weapons (a machete is a good all-purpose one, as is a baseball bat)

Like others mentioned, wire, barbed or otherwise, and I'd add in fishing line, for establishing a perimeter warning system...

A good survival knife

Hunting/fishing supplies (including a nice bow and arrows)...

Flashlights (the shaker kind)

Crank/solar radio

Walkie talkies for your family (use sparingly, and only if you are running electricity, or have a storehouse of batteries).

Try to get most of your things to use the same kind of batteries, so you only have to stock one or two kinds (and can buy them in bulk)...

Sterno, Gas Grill (may have to go on a supply run for more tanks though)...

Books, Games (or you'll be bored stupid). I'd recommend some RPG books, as it will be your new TV, hehe....

also,for electronics,read about Faraday cages,does no good to have electronics if they are useless because of an emp

Easy to build... If you have a laptop, just wrap it up in a few hefty bags, then wrap it all up with aluminum foil...voila, instant faraday cage (although you can't access it like this, but can after a pulse) or get an aluminum briefcase for it... Use a nested cage if you are able to build one for other electronics. Most don't know it, but a microwave oven is actually a great Faraday cage... If you plan to use a car/truck, you'll need to make a cage garage for it...

Backup data on OPTICAL sources (CDs, DVDs, etc.) (unaffected by EMP)...

Multi-vitamins - you will have a different diet, and some things are hard to come by, so keep lots of these...

I'm sure there is a lot of others....



[edit on 18-1-2010 by Gazrok]

Every situation is different, but the odds of catastrophe are greater dependent on where you live and what you can do when you cannot loot your local grocier or find water near a major water works.

Things to consider Water, Food, Shelter, Clothing, Disease, Injury [ from deep wound and bleeding control to joints and bones ] Defense, Community, Resource supply & demand.

Sustainability is really important, try not to live in a city if the crap really hits the fan, some where, where food can be grown and resources are not in high demand. You want to think about natural disasters, and man-made disasters. Educate your self as far as simple chemistry, medical techniques / procedures.

*Guns

Yeah 22s are really only good for small animals or golf balls. You want a 9mm or something common for a pistol (self defense) and depending on your terrain and neighbors a rifle with a common round, maybe even a nato round If your really roughing it you will need to make your own rounds too, so you will end up picking out pieces of lead or what ever you find and melting them and what not ....

Think about where China or Russia might want to drop a nuke, figure out the prevailing winds and try to avoid fallout should this country be stupid enough to push the button one of these days.

From a long time listener and first time caller...to all of you on this forum. Thank you for the advice, support and good words for bad times. In some sporadic order.....

Hyptick: thank you for the aqua system, I am searching for more links to similar system.

Lattle belly - I didn't even think about varmits, from ant to animal, much appreciated.

Jpmail - good words on the generator, i haven't given up my hope for it yet

Mikeg - No, not expecting trouble, hopefully the oposite. But i have this feeling in my stomach that has a voice, and it chants..."better safe than sorry"

See the light - no dice, the 2K is already spoken for

Wickettherabbit..rock on with your bad self keep the good words flowing

and to Doc Holiday, who I mistakenly put a g in there....
thank you doc.....i will u2 you later, i have to re-read this forum and hope that the best is yet to come. This being my first post on ATS, I feel comforted about our likemindedness...

11:11

Uh, yea...about that Ruger 10/22 controversy. A 9mm would be nice for stopping power but it has a short range and the tumbling round can be less accurate past 50yds. The LR 22 cal is less lethal, but has great accuracy up to 200yrds and you can buy 500 rounds for $25 whereas $25 only gets you 50 rounds of 9mm.

A decent 9mm is going to run about $300-$500

A Ruger 10/22 costs between $220-$280

My first gun purchase would be a Ruger 10/22 and if I came into more money later I would try for a 9mm then.