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Does "nothingness" exist?

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posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 


Non-existence can not exist because the second it is thought about, it exists. The word nothingness can be thought about but is still something, a word. The concept behind it simply can't be thought about, and if it can't be thought about it doesn't exist. Therefore by default nothingness doesn't exist and the universe does.




posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


Your maths are mind-boggling friend. I wish I were that mathematically inclined. That would certainly advance my physics along quite nicely.

What do you think about "negative" and "positive"...(in philosophical terms)?



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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Without nothingness limits of a true infiniity would not exist, God, Creator, am sure could not be bothered with such limit as a boundary on infinity, Creator creates needs room for this so maybe possible he uncreated nothingness as to have room for expansion, on creation.
Only thing I wonder about is once time factor has been taken out of equation it would seem the everything that could be done has already taken place some where in a infinite, infinity.
So at that point everything become like fluid, and this must be why we are in the Veil of ignorance, else would take fun out of everything.
I say there's aways room for improvement, so lets improve, or unprove the nothingness.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:48 PM
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Perhaps the problem lies in your semantics and analysis.

Perhaps you can determine things in terms of:

state (of being or not being)

existence (matter or energy)

idea (concept but not necessarily a reality)



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 
It appears most all things are concepts before they become real, maybe we can make the nothing real.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by ModestThought
 


I agree. Concerning existence and nonexistence, the laws of conservation are something I fall back on occasionally.

Also, I particularly find the Newton's law of Inertia to be one that I fall back on an inordinant amount as well. 1) exists in a state of being or a state of rest 2) moves uniformly straight forward, except when compelled to change its state by a net force...which BOTH circumstances, IMO, imply a Creator....(the universe would either be static, or received an initial net force....)

I digress...this isn't about Creator or no creator...

Good points.

A2D

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Agree2Disagree]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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As it is 04:47 in the morning here in the UK i think it may be the wrong time to get involved in this discussion. However, I think the fact that you ask whether it exists is an interesting way to phrase it, surely nothingness is the gap created by the lack of existence, and yet in that sense nothingness becomes something because the very thought of it is conceivable, but then it does not mean it exists. I don;t think nothingness exists because the sentence in itself is a contradiction, and yet I do think there once was a time when nothingness was present. A complete void that is unimaginable to the human mind. If nothingness does "exist" it would appear to me as a stillness of mind rather than a void in the universe.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by Agree2Disagree
 
Negative does not exist in the nothingness.
Positive does not exist in the nothingness.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by awakened sleeper
 




Very well put.

With that analogy, belief and nonbelief are both one coin as well, yes?
Therefore, would the burden of proof also apply to "nonbelief" despite popular opinion?



I am receptive. I do not believe or disbelieve.

So then what is proof? Or rather what are facts?



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by Jim Scott
Perhaps the problem lies in your semantics and analysis.

Perhaps you can determine things in terms of:

state (of being or not being)

existence (matter or energy)

idea (concept but not necessarily a reality)



I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at....

Perhaps it's time for a break........



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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How can I put this.

Nothingness literally means non-existent or pretty much nothingness. Nothingness is something that's impossible to conceive of because there's nothing there to conceive of, granted viewing nothingness or imagining nothingness is illogical. When someone imagine nothingness they automatically give it a place, which contradict definition of being nowhere. They give nothingness a color, such as black, but this contradict it being inconceivable. Nothingness isn't descriptive at any level; giving it a color/place would violate the concept completely.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by GrandKitaro777]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:03 PM
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If you subscribe to the idea of the multiverse theory, which would include ideas such as "numbers are endless", then you must also acknowledge that somewhere deep within that infinite eternal multiverse (which is essentially a multidimensional matrix of all possibilities and combination thereof which define what zero and nothing is not), there must be the possibility and description of even YOU hiding within there somewhere, along with this world, and an infinite number of alternate versions. We already have proof of one of them, do we not.


Mind boggling to imagine if nothing were actually possible. In fact, any attempt to define what nothing would be, or rather not be, would take forever to define (we would need a multiverse matrix just to contain it all, ha). We could spend forever just counting all the numbers that wouldn't exist if nothing were possible, ha.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Xtraeme
 


Your maths are mind-boggling friend. I wish I were that mathematically inclined. That would certainly advance my physics along quite nicely.

What do you think about "negative" and "positive"...(in philosophical terms)?


I think it might help to understand that when I view a number I see it as a recursive description of another element. Put another way -1 is 1. They're on the same continuum. IE/ Hate (-1) is love (1) perverted and love is the insanity of hate without the violence.

Likewise no number can be defined without 1. For instance if you have all Real numbers available to you, but 1 is removed from the domain then 2 * 3 ≠ 6 because 6 ≠ 6 since 6 / 6 ≠ 1. Meaning 6 is not a component of itself, because 1 is undefined. So unless 1 holds no number holds.

My point here is that for any element to exist all other things must exist simultaneously. Thus for a = a there must be elements that do not equal themselves (i.e. 0 and infinity).

The universe is fundamentally numbers. The idea of us living in a "matrix" of sorts isn't even doing this idea justice. There is no computer running a simulation. All that exists is math and numerical concepts. If a God exists he's the number 0 (as the summation of all things).

Though for us to exist he very likely used the axiom, A ≠ A (abstract nothingness), to allow all other things to separate out.

[edit on 22-12-2009 by Xtraeme]



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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Thank you all for your replies. I've gathered quite a bit of interesting insight into the nothingness.

However, I am still left in the dark, or left out of the light as it is, when it comes to the questions of nonexistence and disbelief.....

Is nonexistence...existent?
-AND-
Is disbelief...a belief?



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:07 PM
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Adhemar: You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?

- Knights Tale (2001)

There is something about this quote that really gets me..



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 


Very intriguing.

You continually impress me with your display of mathematically analogies. I really wasn't expecting these kinds of answers.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by eyesdown

As it is 04:47 in the morning here in the UK i think it may be the wrong time to get involved in this discussion. However, I think the fact that you ask whether it exists is an interesting way to phrase it, surely nothingness is the gap created by the lack of existence, and yet in that sense nothingness becomes something because the very thought of it is conceivable, but then it does not mean it exists. I don;t think nothingness exists because the sentence in itself is a contradiction, and yet I do think there once was a time when nothingness was present. A complete void that is unimaginable to the human mind. If nothingness does "exist" it would appear to me as a stillness of mind rather than a void in the universe.
The Nothing still does not exist, this is what the something is expanding to, even though it is sizeless this boggles the mind.
And the fact that if the something did not exist then the nothing could not even not exist, true paradox.
And not trying to get all Religious, how can someone not believe in Creator, what we came out of Cracker-Jack Box?



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:25 PM
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reply to post by Xtraeme
 
If true infinity exist it has no starting point, at least none that could be conceived by man.
Math does not work in nothingness, because there is nothing to add or subtract.



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by googolplex
 


No, not cracker jack box...we came from "nothing" or 0...or the infinitely finite...or..."cracker jack box".



posted on Dec, 22 2009 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by Xtraeme
 
If true infinity exist it has no starting point, at least none that could be conceived by man.
Math does not work in nothingness, because there is nothing to add or subtract.



Infinity has no starting point even on God standards.



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