Does "nothingness" exist?

Originally posted by Zeptepi
Why of course nothingness exists.

The importance of nothingness cannot be underestimated.

1) the mere contemplation of nothingness brings it to reality.

2)Nothing is a very important value in the solving of quadratic equations, or a fancy loophole to divide by zero.

3) Nothing can get your children to eat broccoli!

and finally,


4) nothing always seems to be the matter when you ask your spouse/sig-other. ie:"what is the matter hon?"
the answer is 87.6% of the time "nothing"

so you see, in these few examples, Nothing plays a very significant role in the reality we call our lives.


soooo....whats the matter with nothing?

I agree the act of measuring or quantifying brings that that you are measuring or quantifying in to existance.

If something doesnt exist then you have no conciouse awareness of it.

So given that you are conciousely aware of nothingness means it must exist.

in the world of physics, there is no such thing as an absolte "nothing"

we can create vacuums and pull all matter from the space, yet no matter how we try we get these pesky things called virtual particles that invade our vacuum, even if only briefly!.

and one could debate the idea of nothingness on a much smaller scale, what about the space between the nucleus and the electrons? wel there is still something there, the weak and strong nuclear force invade that space.

so no nothing cannot be achieved... (is that a double negative?)

and the burden of proof lies soley on those who wish to make it so. dont get wrapped up in positive debate and negative debate. if i propose a theory that is new or that alters an already established idea, then the burden of proof is on me to prove my theory because the opposite is already ahead. that is that my theory goes against what has already been thought to be generally accepted, and in science we know that most old gray and senile kooks dont care much for change, because it often leads to changing everything they know, so make sure your ducks are in a row so to speak.


great thread. s&f!

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by sirnex

 

If nothingness cannot be experienced, then we cannot rationally say that it exists.

Therefore, it must be experienced, can you observe, nothing?

Isn't that like a tree falling in the forest?

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

[edit on 093131p://bWednesday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by sirnex

 

If nothingness cannot be experienced, then we cannot rationally say that it exists.

That is exactly what my opinion is of nothingness. Just to explain, I argued against what you described as being nothingness as an attempt to state that nothingness actually exists as something. If nothingness did indeed exist, then it would not be nothingness at all. Which is a pretty profound realization in my opinion. It dispels all arguments against the universe arising out of nothingness. We can then conclude that there was indeed something that gave rise to the universe, but what that something is is unknown to us. I know you have your own personal opinions, and I have my own personal opinions. It was just your way of describing nothingness that caused me to post.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Refer back to a post made on page one in which "nothingness" was experienced.

In fact, experiencing "nothing" is the main goal of buddhist meditation.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Refer back to a post made on page one in which "nothingness" was experienced.

In fact, experiencing "nothing" is the main goal of buddhist meditation.

Then the main goal is muddied. How can one experience something that isn't there to experience? I don't know much about Buddhism, but I would imagine that the 'nothing' is more or less a state of absolute calmness in the mind being achieved by meditation.

Nothingness is only ever a particular perspective. It requires a mind that is incapable of "reading" a particular environment. There is no such thing as absolute and objective nothingness.

reply to post by sirnex


It's actually just "a state of being" that is all that is trying to be reached.....

IMO, 'nothingness' is just that...simply a state of being...albeit a state that isn't subject to perception....

There are always opposites so something. Therefore, if their is something than their is nothing.

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Nothing cannot exist simply because something does. Nothing means no thing. Can no thing exist? No... because there are things.

Just like everything completely exists, nothing must entirely not exist. It seems rather obvious to me.

If someone has no beliefs as they claim (which is untrue to begin with, because it's impossible to have no beliefs), then they wouldn't know the difference. Meaning, they wouldn't be able to say, "I have no beliefs." It's a completely foolish statement.

I side with your understanding of things, A2D. Stinks that the debates got you questioning your sense. We are debating against an entire army of scientists and like-minded individuals. It's okay, though... It will take an army to even come close to proving wisdom wrong.

reply to post by iesus_freak


Where you trying not to hurt your head with this statement? It's pretty bland...

If it's not subject to be perceived or experienced...how can you claim that it exists?

ABSOLUTE NOTHINGNESS would be just that...a completely closed system with no interraction with anything or by anything...

I don't have the time at the moment to go through what other members are saying, but as for the OP topic itself, I would have to say no..nothingness can not exist mainly because everything.. absolutely everything is made of energy taking various forms, but despite the form it takes its still all energy, nothingness would have to be the lack of energy of any kind and i can't believe that ever happens, it would pointless and the universe as a whole doesnt do things without reason.. thats just my take on the question, please someone tell me if i am just talking crap and ignore this reply lol

reply to post by Full_Vision


We're all talking crap, but atleast it don't stink.

We don't really know anything. Therefore, any conjecture that someone can imagine has its fair share of possibilities and probabilities....

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


LOL very true ! No one really knows what the hells going on with anything for the most part (apart from the elites i'm sure to an extent) so yeah all anyone can do presently is theorize and speculate.. great fun and exactly.. all theories and angles have great possibility of being true or at least partly so i would think...

I worked this all out on '___' back in the 70's, but I don't want to spoil the debate so I'll just jump in there when someone comes up with the correct answer.

"nothing" does not exist

nothingness refers to the emptiness of a thing, that does exist.

But you can not say that a thing has a characteristic of "nothing"

reply to post by Bombeni


Well, I'm not sure if you'll agree...but my most common answer for any/all question(s) is "We are F'd"

I have in the past attempted to perceive nothing. I did it as follows; First visualize the universe, then remove EVERYTHING conceivable from it so you are left with only vast immeasurable empty space. Now try to imagine this vast empty space collapses in on itself so there is no longer even any empty space, there is nothing. It is to me inconceivable.

nothingness is a paradox because it exists and do not exist in the same time

it's all about awareness and non-awareness of it

you cannot explain what nothingness is, you can only be aware of it

so, the answer to your question is: yes, nothingness exists from an aware point of view, but in the same time it does not exist because you cannot experience non-awareness

this also leads to another conclusion that is stated in my signature