The majority of Americans came to America in the last century and didn't kill Indians or enslave bl

reply to post by gdeed


I don't recall telling you to give any money?

What are you talking about?

Ah you mean reparations? Well i didn't mention them either.

I mean we shouldn't forget about something, just because it was a long time ago.

[edit on 20/12/09 by Kram09]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

You might like to look into that assertion...look at ancestral lands in older cultures than ours. Look into the structure of society to preserve the ownership and the creation and preservation of wealth from generation to generation. While I appreciate your assertion that your kin caused no one any grief...you are so wrong in the other stuff you're saying. Study some history, law, anthro, sociology...they all contradict you.

Like, no offence, eh?

Lands all over the world continue to change hands via wars or political change. Certainly, there are rich dynasties that continue to hold on to lands with armies, politicians and accountants. The rest of us can't hold on to land for long. The tax man/woman will and can take it at any time. If not death takes it from us eventually.

Here in America many Indian tribes have/are taking their revenge on the white man that drinks too much fire-water and then goes into one of the hundreds of Indian casinos and loses his paycheck every week.

I am British and ashamed of what my ancestors did to the natives of America, so to say that one can't feel bad for them is just rubbish, especially as they are the ones still suffering today, they still don't have their land back, that was forcibly stolen from them by mine and some of your ancestors, some of the native people live in the most poverty in the US, yet its still not taken seriously by the majority of people. And you cant say its not just look at this for an example



So if your feeling bad go help these poor souls, and get them out of poverty, and give them some of their freaking land back.

If there was an award for making the most pathetic, unlogical, bias and or least historically accurate threads, this OP would win it hands down.

Obviously the OP's vision is seriously clouded by stuckup white middle class american ideologies combined with racial southern redneck social standards.

Really give up OP, maybe make a thread about stuff you actually know about. Might I suggest Lamchops Play Along, Sesame street and remedial english 101

Sigh. It's all about "manisfest destiny". We had the guns, they didn't, we killed 'em. Therefore it was God's will. Doh.

"The American way of life is blessed." LMAO. The USA is the most destructive nation in the history of mankind.

Now we are are murdering the oceans. I don't see anyone giving up tuna. Nothing has changed.

[edit on 20-12-2009 by rizla]

There are millions of people around the world suffering, and I wish no one had to suffer.

Nevertheless, there are millions of people doing just fine, including Indian tribes all over America. Why don't the Indians take some of those billions of dollars they rake in “tax free” on "their" lands every day and give it to those Indians down on their luck?

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 20-12-2009 by gdeed]

There is no debt. The history of mankind is based off someone killing someone, someone invading someone, someone destroying someone. It's just what we do. There's no changing it. No people or land is safe from the atrocities their ancestors have caused and to say their is a debt is naive. It's not the American way, it's the human way.

Originally posted by Chad_Thomas89
There is no debt. The history of mankind is based off someone killing someone, someone invading someone, someone destroying someone. It's just what we do. There's no changing it. No people or land is safe from the atrocities their ancestors have caused and to say their is a debt is naive. It's not the American way, it's the human way.

But their is shame. If their is no shame, the soul is dead.

Originally posted by Daniem
Honestly.. in what backwards place have you heard people beeing angry at american citizens because of what people who came there did hundreds of years ago? Who has this beef with americans?? Do you have a source?

The United States Congress in Washington DC is ground zero for White Guilt and Slavery Apologists, although no such thing as slavery has existed in this nation for more than 140 years:

2008: U.S. House of Representatives Apologizes for Slavery in Early America

2009: U.S. Senate Apologizes for Slavery in Early America

You were saying?

— Doc Velocity

Personally I'm still pissed off about the Romans wiping out the Druids. Reparations are great because everyone on earth would be entitled to them as conquerors almost always interbred with the populations they conquered. You would be surprised how many people are related to Gangis Khan and that's just one person who didn't even live that long ago.

Originally posted by 4ortunate1
Personally I'm still pissed off about the Romans wiping out the Druids.

Oh, yeah... Sorry. I meant to apologize to the Druids, but I've been busy apologizing for the Roman Siege of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Frankly, I'm still waiting for an apology from the Visigoths for sacking Rome in 410 A.D.

Those damned Visigoths!


— Doc Velocity





[edit on 12/20/2009 by Doc Velocity]

the Arawak/Taino Indians were: “’Punished’ by having their hands cut off … & left to bleed to death”. He lists other forms of torture & cruelty inflicted upon the Taino Indians including being hanged, roasted on spits, burned alive, children were hacked to pieces & used as dog feed, (the perpetrators) slit a man in two or cut his head off & opened up his bowels, (the offenders) dashed the heads of babes against rocks.

from: www.countercurrents.org...

If you ain't ashamed of that, your soul is dead.

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by the_denv

 

Erm.....maybe you should read some history books.

I think your the one who needs to read the history books, and think before you try to discredit or insult someone.

The Tuscarora and Oneida tribes had all their villages burned to the ground in 1812. Here is some proof:

Life was altered when the British invaded Tuscarora during the war of 1812. The entire Tuscarora community, including the homes, barns, schools, church and livestock was burned by the British.
- Page 8, Tuscarora Nation, by Bryan Printup, Neil Patterson, Jr
Source

Also, the Niagara area (including Fort Niagara) got invaded by the British in 1812, everything burned to the ground, hardly any Tuscarora survived.

[edit on 20/12/2009 by the_denv]

Originally posted by rizla
If you ain't ashamed of [cruelty to the Indians], your soul is dead.

Well, I lump that under the more general heading of Man's Inhumanity to Man, the like of which can be found in every culture throughout the entire history (and prehistory) of Mankind.

Not to make light of the suffering of the various North American tribes at the hands of the White Devil, but the savagery of pre-Columbian tribal wars on this continent is something that dwarfs most other of Man's atrocities to shame.

For example, there are prehistoric tribal battlefields in America containing not hundreds but thousands of mutilated skeletons, presumably killed in single battles between warring tribes.

I mean, when you think of the United States losing some 58,000 men in Vietnam over a decade, then compare that to a similar number of tribal warriors slaughtered in a single prehistoric battle, you start to realize that pre-Columbian America wasn't all peace pipes and rain dances and Nature spirits.

It was a savage, bloody, genocidal place.

Come to think of it, if the White Devil hadn't arrived and put a fence around the Navajo, that tribe may have been exterminated by other tribes in the American West.

See, the Navajo were pretty much universally despised by other tribes, and for good reason — the Navajo, rather than being the quiet and domesticated tribe we know today, was rather infamous in earlier times for raiding, plundering and massacring more peaceful tribes. Their preferred method of executing prisoners was crushing their heads with large rocks.

The Navajo were hated by their neighbors, to be blunt, and there is still considerable tribal animosity toward the Navajo to this very day.

Of course, that's Indian business, not ours.


— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
If there was an award for making the most pathetic, unlogical, bias and or least historically accurate threads, this OP would win it hands down.

Obviously the OP's vision is seriously clouded by stuckup white middle class american ideologies combined with racial southern redneck social standards.

Really give up OP, maybe make a thread about stuff you actually know about. Might I suggest Lamchops Play Along, Sesame street and remedial english 101

The word is "illogical"

I fail to see what the OP said that was historically inaccurate.

Slavery was instituted and practiced by and large by a small minority of rich elite families on huge plantations. The vast majority of white Americans DURING slavery owned no slaves, and MANY of them were indentured servants for many years of their lives, unpaid workers AKA WHITE SLAVES, although I am not diminishing the lifelong slavery of the blacks.

Slavery was eventually abolished due to the demands of White-Anglo-Saxon-Protestant Christians, a party was formed specifically to outlaw slavery, the first presidential candidate of this new party was Abraham Lincoln, and the party was the Republicans.

A bloody war was fought over the issue of slavery, a war of white on white, and 620,000 men died, not including those wounded and maimed for life. Perhaps compare the casualties between World War 2, Vietnam, and Iraq with the Civil War casualties for a better idea of the price that was paid to end slavery.

After the Civil War, millions upon millions more people immigrated from Europe, and none of them had anything to do with the slavery that the whites already here had paid dearly to end with a bloody war.

Hopefully no one actually thinks the Native Americans were living together in a peaceful utopia before the Europeans showed up, because being human, the tribes were cyclically slaughtering each other before Europeans ever came around.

The vast majority of modern day Americans arrived long after the Native Americans had been decimated by disease and the corralled into reservations.

As it stands the Native Americans, between having free college available to them, and the casinos, and having the benefit of living in a technologically advanced first world nation, I don't think they are doing too bad.

Everyone needs to think about how lucky they are to live in America, not whine about the past.

Originally posted by Chainmaker

The word is "illogical"

Both are illogical and unlogical are accepted terms. Look it up next time

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by Chainmaker

The word is "illogical"

Both are illogical and unlogical are accepted terms. Look it up next time

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Please.

Read that guy's post and tell me that he decided to use a variant spelling that is almost never used, when he couldn't spell anything right.

"bias" should have been "biased", I had to infer from his post that when he wrote " accurate" he actually meant "inaccurate"

Originally posted by Chainmaker
I fail to see what the OP said that was historically inaccurate. Slavery was instituted and practiced by and large by a small minority of rich elite families on huge plantations.

No, slavery as an "institution" already existed in Africa, Europe and Asia long before the American colonies ever existed. Nothing about slavery was invented in America, except perhaps emancipation.

Originally posted by Chainmaker
A bloody war was fought over the issue of slavery, a war of white on white...

That's probably the biggest example of historical revision taught in American schools today. The American Civil War, in fact, was not about slavery. The stated reason for the Civil War, ironically, was to "save the Union" — that according to Abraham Lincoln himself.

The political and economic climate of the pre-Civil-War era was a tense one between North and South. The South perceived the North as an industrial parasite living off of the vast agricultural and economic resources of the South. Like it or not, the North could not survive as a separate nation, while the South certainly could survive without the North.

Hence the Northern panic when the South announced that it was seceding from the Union. The North, then, started the war to take back (steal) the agricultural and economic resources of the South. This is why, in Confederate history, the Civil War was more properly termed "The War of Northern Aggression"...which it certainly was.

The North later used slavery as a political issue to justify the war; however, Abraham Lincoln himself admitted that slavery was an inconsequential issue compared to the real reason for the war: "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it..."

The prime objective was to save the union, which meant conquering and subordinating the Southern states to Northern dominance. Emanicipation of the slaves was just an afterthought, a bit of propaganda to give the North moral high ground.

Just a few points of clarification for those of you still struggling to cast off 12 years of brainwashing courtesy of our public education system.



— Doc Velocity

OP

I agree with what you are saying to a certain degree, all else aside bottom line I NEVER did anything to a Native my parents never did, their parents never did.

But this... even hits me a bit as harsh and for One reason...

When it comes to the north American Natives...

Their culture was absolutely INCREDIBLE, we lost allot, we lost a whole lot by having a less synergistic conclusion then we did, what happened was our loss as much as theirs in a way...

I could say that about no other culture we have clashed with.... but this one, we screwed up, we had what to learn from them on many levels...

Some could pose an argument that... Many Blacks in the long run are better of given the state of Africa that they have a chance here now that we have stopped the madness...

Some could say that in Central America that culture really had fallen and there was nothing good coming of it again... human Sacrifice, football with human heads... something had gone really wrong there...

But Native North Americans...

were beautiful and free like no one else on the planet...

Nothing good came to them from our intervention, we brought unwittingly a host of diseases, they were ravaged just by our arrival alone... and for that they deserve allot more than they have gotten...

Spiritually, emotionally, they had good lives and let's put aside what brought on the fight...

Our very arrival screwed them badly

So let's not take this situation as about WAR.... or what you or I did and just seek to understand, they lost as close to a paradise as possible when people showed up fleeing tyranny, lets forget the rest and the blame... and look at the bottom line of it all...

They had it good and we brought them a tragedy via biology from the minute we stepped off the boat... our germs, our booze our food was terrible for them and no matter what happened next they were screwed...

For that alone, they deserve something from us... and to this day in places people hate them and there really was allot to be learned from them...

Our culture was technologically superior...

But Spiritually inferior

I am the LEAST politically correct guy to walk the Earth let alone ATS...

But when it's true it's true and I wont hide from truth...

new americans receive disproportionately from america; but they receive all that is negative within america as well. so it balances out?