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The Electric Sun - Criticism Destroyed

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posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 12:59 PM
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Sadly I'm starting to see some similarities to this debate and the Man Made Global Warming debate. One side gets all the funding based off of made up stuff. Then when their observations are not correctly predicted they come up with a new thing to explain it away.

I'm not saying either theory is correct because after all it is a theory, but there really isn't much debate one side gets shut down because it doesn't fit in with the "consensus". Also one side of it all gets all the funding.

The problem is when people that are studying this stuff starts adopting unproven and unexplainable theories on why what they observe happens, and taking it as the end all and be all because it fits the "model"

Sounds a lot like Man Made global warming science to me.




posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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I find it somewhat humorous that they demand proof of inflows, when Scott has detailed why we may have not fully observed them yet, but everything else in the electric theory checks out and explains observations in a far more elegant and simple way without using any hypothetical physics in its descriptions.

Mean while the standard model uses all sorts of hypothetical physics, ridiculous unproven dynamo theory, gravitational models that have been flat out disproved, and untested fusion models.

Hydrogen to helium fusion has never been tested in a lab from start to finish. It can't be done.

Supposed magnetic reconnection at the photosphere violates conservation laws in physics.

Dynamo theory borders on belief in the supernatural.

No matter how they cut it, the surface is over 300 times colder than the corona. No amount of wiz-bang hypothetical nonsense can over come this problem without resorting to the supernatural.

We are expected to believe the interior of the Sun is a raging nuclear furnace which then radiates its heat through the surface of the Sun without actually heating the surface of the Sun into the corona, far far above the actual photosphere.

Sun spots, which are the deepest places we can see into the interior of the Sun are the coldest places we can measure. Since its the deepest point we can see, we should expect it to be the hottest since its supposedly closer to the nuclear furnace at the center of the Sun.

Nothing about the standard theory checks out at all.

Believing the standard theory is to believe in fantasy and the supernatural.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 


I don't know enough to go that far with it, as I am still reading up on both models to get a better understanding, but one thing that I do know is that the "magnetic flux ropes" could easily be explained as a "short" like in an electrical circuit that could easily explain this phenomenon.

They admit that the sun has huge electric current flows in its surface. I don't know if what I said is understandable or if I even used the correct terminology, but one thing I do know is that they seem to be ignoring evidence of electricity and the possibility that planets and stars are huge electromagnets.

And honestly, the explanation that huge clouds of gases collapse and create fusion that maintains a break-even reaction without imploding or burning out that has to be explained as each element of gas particle has to gain mass, momentum and energy in order to bend space time to create a gravitational pull that then creates a planets is a hell of a lot of variables that could go wrong at any second. Where as each element has a magnetic force that attracts other elements that then form to create planets is a lot more likely especially considering that the force of the magnet attraction could easily create enough heat to keep elements in a liquid state.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 




Hydrogen to helium fusion has never been tested in a lab from start to finish. It can't be done.



There are 2 good examples available. Excess heat is always correlated with anomalous helium generation.

Physicist Claims First Real Demonstration of Cold Fusion(D2 + D2 --> He4)
www.physorg.com...

U.S. Navy Cold Fusion Research
www.lenr-canr.org...



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 02:04 PM
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reply to post by platoslab
 


But cold fusion doesn't exist in the standard model. Or low energy reactions, etc. I wonder if they have conducted any experiments while the reaction was in a magnetic field.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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The top image above is a Hubble Telescope image of the planetary nebula NGC 6751. The experimental counterpart is provided by a plasma focus device (below left), which concentrates electrical energy in an explosive discharge (below right), mimicking the structure of NGC 6751.



www.thunderbolts.info...

Just wanted to add, does anyone else find if hilarious that conventional theory believes in the ever mysterious "dark matter" and yet just because we cant find the input of electrons into the sun that's suppose to completely debunk EU theory?

edit spelling

[edit on 17-12-2009 by AreaMan]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by eyeswilldeceive
reply to post by freighttrain
 


I agree with you I see "science" as more of a religion by man rather than what it is should be,but it seems science desperately wants to fit with what we do know rather than think everything we might know could be wrong.

I didn't follow the whole thread but it seems logical to me that all gas giants would have some sort of solid core for which the outer gases gathered around!



Sometimes we substitute "common sense" for a more fancier, complicated reasoning since we have no faith in ourselves. We expect the "experts" to come up with a solution, even if we knew it all along. It's in our nature to "look up" to these "experts" since that's what we've been thought through our culture (MSM, School, religious institute, police enforcement, etc..)!

The funny thing is these "experts" mostly don't go beyond their own boundaries since they're also been put there by our culture. So almost never anything NEW is learned.

Who ever controlling our society, has come up with a brilliant plan to control us, while giving us an illusion of freedom! They sit back holding the truth in the palm of their hand and watch us destroy ourselves, by being "us vs. them" when all along it was always just "us"!



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by AreaMan
 


From what I can gather is the Fusion model people say that the sun can't accept outside gases or whatever because they are still thinking in Fusion model mode.

Also I have been thinking about this too, about some planets not having magnetic fields it could be as simple as that planetary body being "burnt out" like a resistor or something.

But yes I do find that funny, they also believe in a bunch of other stuff that has not been observed in experiments or in nature. I'm starting to lean towards the electric universe theory.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


Huh?


...the sun can't accept outside gases...


Who said such a thing???

The Sun has a tremendous gravity well...of course stuff will fall towards it, and sometimes into it.

That's how planets stay in orbit, duh!



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

I have a big interest in this model because I believe it can help us understand Anti-Gravity or at least something that simulates anti-gravity in the form of floating objects through strong magnetic fields.
.............


Oh wow, you guys are talking about me, cool.


BTW JohnPhoenix be careful you don't get grabbed, and taken away if you start making too much research on this subject.


Hannes Alfven was a visionary who was born several decades too soon. The Scientific community for the most part were laughing at the revelations that Alfven found, decades later to be proved right and embarrassing the "scientific concensus", and it's advocates...

The Universe is electric in nature.. We have found magnetic portals connecting Earth to the Sun in ways that scientists did not believe could occur.


During the time it takes you to read this article, something will happen high overhead that until recently many scientists didn't believe in. A magnetic portal will open, linking Earth to the sun 93 million miles away. Tons of high-energy particles may flow through the opening before it closes again, around the time you reach the end of the page.

www.physorg.com...

We also know for a fact that the Sun's corona, which extends millions of miles above the Sun's surface, is HOTTER than the Sun's surface.

That is not possible if the Sun was powered by nuclear fusion. If this was so the surface should be hotter than the corona of the Sun.

We have also observed electrical discharges that extend from the Sun to nearby passing comets.

These three facts alone should convince most people to the fact that the Universe is electric in nature.

But we also observe constantly plasma/electrical discharges, and storms occurring in the upper levels of the Earth's atmosphere.

The fact that the universe is electrical in nature can be seen almost everywhere you look.


there are also facts as the following.


They Sing the Comet Electric

Dissident scientists advocating a controversial theory of the universe are having a field day in the wake of NASA's Deep Impact comet collision earlier this month.

Scientists promoting the Electric Universe model say their predictions for the comet mission appear to have been more accurate than NASA's.

The Electric Universe theorists, collected at Thunderbolts.info, believe that electricity, when factored properly into astrophysics, plays a greater role in the cosmos than the standard gravitational model, which says electrical forces are insignificant on a cosmic scale.

Proponents of the Electric Universe model say they can explain many of the bizarre phenomena and mysteries in cosmology, from a swath of anomalies seen in the solar system to unusual surface features on Mars and Jupiter's moon, Titan. The theory can also sweep away the need for theoretical "dark matter" and "dark energy."

Comets are a cornerstone of the model, visible proof of the legitimacy of the theory as they traverse eccentric orbits around the sun.

According to the model, comets are not inert balls of ice and rocky dust particles aggregated into a "dirty iceball" as standard comet theory holds. Instead, they are solid, asteroid-like rocks, containing little ice. Negatively charged with electricity, their motion through the positively charged solar wind triggers electrical discharges. These, not vaporized ice, produce the characteristic comet glow and tail.

Prior to the July 4 impact, the Electric Universe group published a detailed chain of events they expected to see when Deep Impact struck comet Tempel 1 with an 820-pound copper projectile.

The prediction said there would be two impact flashes: a small flash as the projectile penetrated the comet's electrified atmosphere, followed by a huge impact flash that would be "unexpectedly energetic."

And thats exactly what appeared to happen on July 4, in an impact that astonished NASA investigators.

"What you see is something really surprising," said mission co-investigator Peter Schultz. "First, there is a small flash, then there's a delay, then there's a big flash and the whole thing breaks loose."


The renegades at Thunderbolts made more predictions, including an expected massive surge in X-ray production, a lack of subsurface water and very high explosion temperatures. However, confirmation or debunking of their predictions awaits detailed data from NASA, which has yet to release the results.

The Thunderbolts ragtag team of rebels comprises writers, researchers, electrical engineers and comparative mythologists, led by Australian physicist Wallace Thornhill.

Meantime, on the Deep Impact website, NASA scientists theorize that the collisions intense flash was likely caused by tons of fine dust thrown up by the impact and lit by the sun.
..............


www.wired.com...


The flashes were too bright to just be "tons of dust thrown out and lit by the Sun".....

There is also the 2007 explosion of Comet Holmes, which has Nasa scientists, baffled, at least those who are too closed minded to see what happened.

Comet Holmes became half a million times brighter than it was originally to a point that it could be seen with the naked eye, and it became the biggest object in the Solar System at the peak of it's expansion, becoming bigger than the Sun.






[edit on 18-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 06:27 PM
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reply to post by weedwhacker
 


Sorry, electricity can't flow into it, which doesn't make much sense because the outside of the sun is filled with electric currents, although I think they are plasma electric currents, I'm still reading up on it.

I'm looking at both the EU model and Fusion model.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 06:33 PM
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Where's Phage?

I have to wonder about the similarities of this missile, ancient drawings,
prophecy and the reason we have these things going on now.

Does anyone think this is amazing how the Norway incident correlates with this?

www.youtube.com...

Seems as if there might be some kind of relevance here but I don't know what to think of it. Seems as if they have seen this same kind of pattern in the sky in the past...and they couldn't chalk it up to "Rockets gone Wild".

Comments?

peas



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by theonlyrusty


Where's Phage?


What do you need Phage for? he doesn't know everything, and has been wrong many times in the past.

BTW, since when did Phage become ATS' encyclopedia?




[edit on 17-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You know it is really interesting that the EU people predicted what exactly would happen. While the other people were "surprised" by it. It makes a lot of sense and the possibilities of what it will lead to are limitless. Not to mention this blows the lid off of everything it essentially means that we have been doing things the hard way and fighting against nature for decades.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


You know, I have studies things like Ed Leedskalnin moving his big blocks at Coral Castle and I know a strong magnetic field can levitate objects - This is what people often mistake for anti-gravity.. different methodology but same outcome, so in a way it IS anti-gravity.

Ed's machine used strong magnets to produce magnetic fields and electricity. If he could produce an electric current strong enough, he could have floated his blocks with this device.
I believe there are things about the relationship between gravity, electricity and magnetism we don't fully understand.

Just as we do not understand enough of Tesla's work to reproduce everything he did, we do not understand what Ed did. Tesla's car I think is most awesome. He took the motor out and put in a magnetic motor. He used a really long wire to capture electricity from the atmosphere to power the motor and run this car at 90 miles an hour indefinitely. This is like the same electricity you pull out of the air with a really large antenna.

Imagine if we could recapture that technology!

It simply makes since to me that the EU Model can help us understand these relationships in a way that the standard models will not because they limit themselves so much. They are defined in rules so ridged that few scientist look beyond what has been pounded into their heads by "The Establishment". Yet Tesla's car did work.. and Ed did move those blocks. These great men of science were not constrained by closed minded belief.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by JohnPhoenix
 


It would also make sense on how the Egyptians did it, and Stone Henge, Easter Island, etc.

Honestly the EU theory makes a hell of a lot more sense than anything else. I was thinking about a break-even reaction and really I don't think it's possible you have to keep feeding the reaction for it to maintain the level of energy put in.

Also it would explain the spinning of UFO's(if you believe in them) that is so commonly reported. Also I was just thinking about the theorectial Warp Drive, even if we could build something like that you can't push a Planet out your way. But with the EU theory you could "Short" your way to anywhere in the universe. If that makes any sense.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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Some Hong Kong scientists believed that it is not the sun's gravity pulling every planets in our solar system, it is a "magnetic centre" very near our Sun that cause the pull, and it is the "position difference" between that "pulling" and the "solar wind pushing" that makes the planets revolve and circling(turning/revolve) of a lot of things.

They also believed that only the outside of the sun is really hot. And, Gravity is not a force, it is not strong enough to called a force, it is only a "by-product" of other force.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by W3RLIED2
 

SOHO has been teaching us something about a mechanism which can account for coronal heating with a model involving localized magnetic activity. Magnetic reconnection, the same process which drives a lot of activity in our own magnetosphere.

Observations with high spatial resolution show that the surface of the Sun is covered by the weak magnetic fields concentrated in small patches of opposite polarity (magnet carpet). These magnetic concentrations are believed to be a footpoints of individual magnetic flux tubes carrying electric currents.

Recent observations of this "magnetic carpet" show a very dynamical evolution: photospheric magnetic fields constantly move around, interact with each other, dissipate and emerge on very short period of time. Magnetic reconnection between magnetic field of opposite polarity may change topology of the field and release magnetic energy. The reconnection process will also result the dissipation of electric currents which will transform electric energy into the heat.

solar-center.stanford.edu...


Thats pretty good stuff. Essentially they are refering to plasma. Plasma will transport electricity, especially high voltage currents, very effectively. As a result of this it will create magnetic fields that travel in twisted 'tubes of force' , or energy. Just becasue they move around doesn't mean that it isn't caused by the electric source.

When did Stanford kids figure out that electricity generates heat??? Thats not really new. Ever been shocked before??? That burns... and tingles, and hurts after the numbness wears off. The resistance of electrons flowing through a conductor, any conductor, will cause heat. None of that really answers the question though. There is no clear explanation, other than the transferance of electrical voltage and current through a conductor. And that electricity is coming from space, and travelling at extremely high velocities through plasma.

It's like this: Every charge in the free universe already freely an continuously pours out electromagnetic energy in 3 dimensional space, in all directions, without any observable input. To have a magnetic field you have to have electricity, from somewhere, I'm not saying I know where it's being generated but facts are it is being generated.

All elctromagnetic fields and potentials and thier energy come from those source charges, according to electrodynamics. But this interferes with the law of conservation of energy. It is time for science to change their view of space. Either the law of conservation of energy is wrong, OR, it's time to accept the data as fact that unobservable, virtual, electromagnetic mass and energy ar continuously absorbed by the "vacuum" (plasma in space I believe)by the source charge... re-made (transversed is what physicists would say methinks) into actual observable electromagnetic energy, and then re-radiated into 3-dimensional space. This would explain the magnetic carpet that the solar guys at Stanford are trying to explain.

In three dimensional space, such as our solar system, energy is being moved toward and away from the sun in every possible direction. While sporatic bursts of (electro)magnetism are common everywhere, including the sun, they are always most concentrated at the poles. Our own Earth has many places where the magnetic field is... strange to say.. Bermuda triangle, Dragon's triangle, the mystery spot in California... all these places have weird as$ magnetic fields! Magnetic fields change all of the time! The replace the marker for the exact north and exact south poles every year.



posted on Dec, 17 2009 @ 11:26 PM
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What do you guys think about this?

Never Recorded Phenomenon

More evidence of the EU theory?



posted on Dec, 18 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by grey580
The possibility of tapping into that electricity for us to use for free.

The last thing the fascists running our government and public science want is an unlimited abundant cheap source of energy.


What is going on in this thread? You guys are saying that all the stars in the universe are being maintained by aliens? That has got to be the craziest thing I've ever heard come out of this site. You're alleging that the government has the technology to power a sun but is withholding it because they don't want us to have a cheap and abundant source of energy?

Hello! The sun is already a cheap and abundant source of energy. Solar power heats the whole earth to livable conditions and thriving agriculture. We pay zero for that benefit. If the government is trying to suppress the power of the sun, they're doing a poor job of it. Everyone on Earth experiences it every day.

The sun is being maintained by a self-sustaining fusion reaction. That is why a number of countries have spent billions trying to develop fusion reactors on Earth - to get access to the unlimited power of the sun.

Next you're going to tell me that the Moon is actually a big hologram.



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