Originally posted by v01i0
Even if your mind is conscious, it doesn't mean that your arm is such.
With that logic that would mean YOU are NOT conscious.
You can separate your body into a million different parts and claim that no one part is conscious with your logic.
That is like saying your frontal lobe
is not conscious because by itself it doesn't have
As soon as you start seeing your body parts as separate from you, then you have lost your way. No one part of your body is responsible for
consciousness, it is your body as a whole
that is responsible for consciousness. When you loose parts of your body, you loose small parts of
your consciousness and awareness.
Just because you can lose your arm and still be conscious doesn't mean your arm doesn't improve your consciousness, or help support your
consciousness, or give you higher consciousness, or is a part of your consciousness. Without one of your arms you are less able to touch and sense
things compared to when you had both of your arms. So your arms are an extension of your consciousness and awareness. Your arms are a part of your
consciousness, so it is equally true that your arm IS conscious, not by itself, but as a whole.
A man can loose parts of his brain and still be conscious but that doesn't mean those missing parts don't improve, support, or cause part of his
consciousness, and make him more conscious. Usually when there are missing parts of a brain, that brain is lacking it's full potential, it's full
ability to be conscious, so there is a direct link between that missing part and consciousness. That means parts of your brain are a part of your
consciousness, so it is equally true that those parts are conscious, not by itself, but as a whole.
So you are wrong, the different parts of your body are directly linked to different parts of your consciousness.
With your logic, you are basically saying that your keyboard and mouse are not a part of your computer. That is like saying your hard drive is not a
part of your computer simply because when you take it out your computer still turns on.
It is the computer parts as a whole
that make a computer. Just like your body parts as a whole
that make your consciousness.
Originally posted by v01i0
The universe as a whole is hardly conscious. I agree that the parts of it may be. I would rephrase your statement: "The universe is partially
consciuous". You seem to admit that in the later part of the quote above.
I personally believe that the universe as a whole
is conscious, and I have arrived at that belief through philosophical logic by myself. Many
religions have done the same thing long before me.
I agree, and you agree, that PARTS of the universe are conscious. You can't deny that.
However, the universe as a whole
is ONE object. To us it appears to be made of separate objects, but it really is not. Separation is an
illusion. So even if a small part of this ONE object is conscious, that would mean the entire thing is conscious, because it is only ONE thing.
This might not be the best analogy but, what you are basically saying is that only parts of a guitar make sounds, but not the guitar as a whole. It
may sound true at first, but it is not entirely true, and even laughable.
On an acoustic guitar for example, yes, the strings seem to be the only part of the guitar that make a sound. However the base of the guitar helps
make the sound louder and more defined. The shape of the guitar, especially it's length, is responsible for adding a larger variety of sounds. The
tuning knobs alone don't make sounds, but they too add even more variety of sounds to the guitar. So every part of the guitar has an important part
of making the total sound of the guitar. So the guitar as a whole does make sound, not just the parts.
The same is true with the universe. Even though it appears that only parts of the universe create what we know as consciousness, it is the other parts
of the universe that help define and support consciousness. The planets and stars help support life, and with out them consciousness as we know it
would probably not exist. The elements and particles in the universe also help create consciousness, and without them consciousness wouldn't exist.
The large variety of molecules and substances also help support consciousness, and the senses that consciousness needs for awareness. So every part of
the universe has an important part of making the total existence of consciousness in the universe. So the universe as a whole does have consciousness,
not just the parts. The universe is ONE object.
What you are doing is dividing "consciousness" into parts and claiming that only part of it is "conscious" and the other part not. You would be
correct and wrong at the same time. Yes only part of "consciousness" is "conscious", but without the "ness" you don't have "consciousness".
Ok that might be too advanced... I can try another analogy:
What am doing is pointing at a car and saying "Look it is a car!". What you are doing is saying, "No, it isn't a car. Only the chassis, the
engine, the transmission, the wheels, and the steering and power controls are the car, because that is all a car really is. The rest is not a car, it
is a bumper, a door, a light, a seat, a radio, etc...". That sounds really intelligent and really dumb at the same time, because it has the illusion
of being true, but is not fully true. The parts of the car as a whole
is what makes it a car.
So to say only parts of the universe are conscious but the not universe as a whole, as ONE object,
is intelligent and dumb at the same time.
That is like saying ATS is not a conspiracy website because only parts of it have conspiracies, and not the rest.
Originally posted by v01i0
Please define conscious and consciousness? Are they awareness? Self-awereness perhaps?
, is many things. It has many parts. Because of that, many objects have the ability
to be "partially conscious" or "totally conscious".
However the universe is ONE object which contains totally conscious things within it, so the universe CAN be considered "conscious".
Originally posted by v01i0
This table is part of universe, but I can hardly find it conscious. The rocks, soil, water, the space; which all together constitute the main
part of the visible universe - are hardly conscious.
To me that is like saying;
"The wheel is part of the car, but I can hardly find it drivable. The chassis, the brakes, the radiator, the interior space; which all together
constitute the main part of the car - are hardly drivable."
Sounds pretty funky huh?
Now let me tell you something...
When doctors do an MRI scan of the human brain, they see electromagnetic interactions which they claim are responsible for our thoughts and our
consciousness. Even though they don't yet understand exactly how these electromagnetic interactions can form thoughts, ideas, and opinions, they
still believe that they are responsible.
Those same electromagnetic interactions are responsible for our every day lives. All atoms are electromagnetic. A table, a rock, soil, water, is all
electromagnetic and are involved in electromagnetic interactions. You got wind going from place to place, doing it's job and cooling areas, and
pushing clouds of water which is electromagnetic. You got electron transfer (static electricity) going on with almost every substance. You got
lightning. You got all life which is electromagnetic... Light is electromagnetic, and it travels throughout the universe. There is probably no
location in the universe that doesn't have electromagnetic light.
You got all this energy transferring from place to place in this universe, and to humans it seems all pointless and random, just like MRI scans of
So who is to say the entire universe and all of its energy interactions doesn't equal one large brain? Who is to say humans are not inside a large
active brain and every action within it is a "thought" or "idea" in action?
There are many religions who believe this. They believe a rock is an idea or thought created by the universe. You are a thought created by the
universe. Actions and Reactions are all ideas created by the universe. The universe is not a separate entity that God created, but IS GOD.
You can even read "The Universal One" by Walter Russell, the founder of the University of Science and Philosophy. He too has concluded via
philosophical logic that the entire universe is a mind, and all actions in it are thoughts and ideas.
Even the people who wrote the Bible had insight enough to say that man was created "In God's image". Some could say his mental image.
Scientific minds are all about physical observation of the actions and reactions in the universe. They study the how, but not the why. So they are the
first to deny any philosophical logic which could possibly explain a why of such grand scale.
[edit on 18-12-2009 by ALLis0NE]