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Fox News: cutting minimum wage ‘better for workers’

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posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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I believe that the only people in favor of a reduction in minimum wage are those who do not earn minimum wage.

Stupid rich people, they should fear the blue collar worker. We are physically stronger, more resourceful and there are a hell of a lot more of us than there are of them.

Just my 2-cents




posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I wholeheartedly agree Marge.

Although its a separate topic (wage/salary are two different things), the stagnation isn't only attributed towards corporate practices. They do play a large part and a large problem, but not the only problem.

Government taxing policies play also a large role in driving down or stagnating salary wages also. Capital gains tax, all the taxes an employer must make on behalf of just having an employee, etc. etc.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by DINSTAAR
reply to post by EsSeeEye
 


I agree with you entirely.

Minimum wage that is above the market price of labor creates unemployment. This is the very nature of a price floor. The price being the price of the labor.


While technically true, implications for the society are absurd... Of course creating a class of slaves would kill unemployment once and for all... Do we want to try that?

Since we are in the absurd territory, let me motion this: unregulated wall street pay leads to unemployment. Why? This is the very nature of lack of a price ceiling. Billions of dollars that could be spent on public works, rebuilding schools and other useful things will be used to buy Lois Vuitton handbags and Porsche cars.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 11:42 AM
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reply to post by Aggie Man
 


Nope....might want to rethink that line of thinking. Never was for it. Never will be for it either.

Show me the cases where minimum wage laws have done the following:

1: Have provided significant economic boost, thus raising a group of people out of poverty.

2: Has helped the economy (micro/macro....you choose).

3: Has enabled more small business owners with more leverage to hire either more workers, provide better benefits or even give a good bonus/raise?

Just in case you were unaware, small businesses are the bulk of minimum wage jobs, also usually part-time. The VAST majority of minimum wage jobs go to single, 16-24 year old students.

Besides my stint in the military (which didn't happen until I was 24), the jobs I held before that, save one, were all minimum wage. Didn't like it. Felt like I was giving pay that was higher than what my job duties entailed.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by buddhasystem
Since we are in the absurd territory, let me motion this: unregulated wall street pay leads to unemployment. Why? This is the very nature of lack of a price ceiling. Billions of dollars that could be spent on public works, rebuilding schools and other useful things will be used to buy Lois Vuitton handbags and Porsche cars.


Buddha...you are suggesting through this that the money through Wall-Street belongs to the Government?

Regulating Wall-Street will not, except through the force of government to redistribute wealth from one set of people to another, ever pay for public works, rebuilding schools and other useful things.

That wealth, I am sorry, is not Washington's to redistribute. It may be the current mood that it is, but it isn't. Funny how a lot of people will scream 4th amendment rights when the police show up and ask for your license, but when the government comes and decides it wants another 15% of the money YOU EARNED, you don't care.

Disclaimer: You, does not mean you...specifically...just you, as in you, who ever is reading it you.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Regulating Wall-Street will not, except through the force of government to redistribute wealth from one set of people to another, ever pay for public works, rebuilding schools and other useful things.


Explain how it won't! Bonus tax is being discussed now, and surely it can be earmarked to rebuild schools and roads and bridges, all of which are rotting now.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


Welp doesn't that just prove what I said? A bonus tax is not regulation. It falls under the guise of it for sure. Cause the in-thing right now is to create wealth-envy.

A bonus tax is a redistribution of wealth. If you think for one minute that money is going to be put to good use....you have been hiding under a rock on what the government has been doing with your money for the past 20-30 years.

Regulation of Wall-Street would be things like: how funds are transferred, types of markets banks can reinvest into as to protect the money they are investing, car manufactures not being able to also be a bank....stuff like that is regulation. Taxing someone's bonus because YOU think it is outrageous is just pure wealth envy and the government is laughing all the way to the bank if you buy it.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:17 PM
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Wouldn't there be lower unemployment if minimum wage was higher?

Some people make more money getting a government check in the mail than if they were to take some jobs.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by nunya13
 


Business hiring doesn't work that way. I will admit that this is simplified, but someone else also pointed it out earlier a couple posts back.

You own a business. At weeks-end you have made $100(paid for taxes, new inventory, all that jazz EXCEPT payroll).

Your payroll consists of 2 employees. Each employee is paid the minimum wage (for simplicity sake $35/week.)

Thus your payroll is 2 x $35 = $70
Profit is $100 - $70 = $30

You then put say, $20 bucks in the bank and the $10 bucks left over is yours to go frolock in the wind. Sounds fun right?

Now, the government comes along and tells you that you are now required to pay those employees $45/week. That is a $10/week increase, thus giving you, the business owner a couple of choices.

You can either

A: Fire an employee. Reason you would do this is because you wish to keep your widgets you sell at the prices they are at now. You want this option because those widgets prices are being controlled by market-forces and not government-forces.

B: You raise your product prices. Reason being is you don't want to fire the kid that is making a few extra bucks while in school. You don't really want to this option because now your widgets are artificially price inflated due to the forced wages you now how to pay.

Of course there are many other scenarios, but you can see that unemployment will not go down if you raise minimum wage.

Minimum wage forces employers to make a decision. Not because their business is failing or because they have piss-poor employees, but because the government is dictating market-prices (price floor as someone pointed out).

No one goes into business wanting to lose. The small businessman will do what they must to survive. Raise prices or fire employees if they are forced to pay more than what they are market dictated.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Seems you knee jerked your reaction to this. Did you research as to why the claim was made? Why does minimum wages effect workers poorly and adversely? Why would a minimum wage be a bad idea?

If none of those questions, or ones similar popped into your mind when you heard the report, then you are coming from a highly biased view or you have extensive knowledge as to why it wouldn't hurt workers.

I challenge you to critically think about what is being said in the book that was promoted along with reading the following article by a highly acclaimed economist. Quick Note: You may not like the site it comes from and I do not care for it much either. Its not the site I am sending you to, its the article. Read with an objective mindset.

Minimum Wage - Minimum Folly

I hope to further discuss this with you or anyone.


FULL OF CRAP the notion is

High min wage would bring in $1280 mnth - lets think about taxes (yes my lil sis paid taxes) - but no lets say this person pays no taxes


"cheap" (ghetto- real ghetto not this pretend midwest stuff) rent is $900 in my city


SO we have $380 to pay for car insurance, gas, food, health insurance (if you like to splurge)

Or LIVING for $95 a week regardless of what comes along


"Here honey, I got you some ketchup packets, merry christmas!!!"

Its better because it will create more profits for anyone above the piss upon-

This makes me sick in fact

Long live the elites!!!

And the producers!!!

Market!!!

BAH BAH BAH

JUST LIKE THE CRIES OF THE FRENCH ELITE PRE FRENCH REVOLUTION!

I'll eat M$#@$#@$@# with a fork

UH DER AYN RAND SAID ___ DARRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

URRRRRRRR!


Try it people - see a banning in slow motion




[edit on 15-12-2009 by Janky Red]

[edit on 15-12-2009 by Janky Red]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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lowering minimum wage makes job's??????
they can kiss my hairy butt

what they need to do seeing as all senator's are millionaire's already..do there job without pay...
heck i would ...

But people making minimum barely can afford rent food ect..and gas to get to work....
just another way to make poor people poorer.

dang i am starting to get sick of all these politicians we got EVERYONE of em.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by TheAmused
But people making minimum barely can afford rent food ect..and gas to get to work....just another way to make poor people poorer.


Yup! And in a time of rising food and gas prices...I guess I had better start looking for a tent city.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by TheAmused
 


You have transferred your anger of minimum wage in the private sector to that of which the public sector is paid for.

Government does not make money. They seize money in the form of taxes. You are correct in the assertion that politicians are sorely overpaid, but so is the whole of public sector which doesn't base its wages/salaries upon market forces but on how much money they can seize through taxes.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by Janky Red
 


Ad hominem --------


Are you suggesting because I provided backing to my arguement that I must just mindlessly follow Ann Rynd? Oh and I speak in Er duh......

Sorry sir, you can set up your emotional straw-man all you like, but it seems rather than making a case for minimum wage (which a few on here have and have done so clearly), you choose to just lash out and moan.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by TheAmused
lowering minimum wage makes job's??????


Of course it creates jobs. The wealthy will need to hire additional accountants to count their new found riches.

The real truth is that most businesses hire only the number of employees they need. Removing the minimum wage or reducing it would have no affect on their hiring unless there is an increase in demand for their product. Which I don't see happening with the removal of the minimum wage unless it's for high end luxury goods.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by TheAmused
 


You have transferred your anger of minimum wage in the private sector to that of which the public sector is paid for.

Government does not make money. They seize money in the form of taxes. You are correct in the assertion that politicians are sorely overpaid, but so is the whole of public sector which doesn't base its wages/salaries upon market forces but on how much money they can seize through taxes.


Here some market forces for you

The market many AMERICAN companies source from pay $.38 an hour

So the market would dictate that in order to equalize and compete at a base market level we would need to lower American Wages Below this level. That is the end game

Pee ons SPEND 100% of there wages PEOPLE - the excess does not go to other pee ons
or sit in bank accounts - IT GOES TO OTHER BUSINESS'S that hire and employ minimum wage workers -

UNLESS YOU ALL SUGGEST THAT EXTRA MONEY THOSE lazy Min worker earn disappears.


Spread the truth

Less money makes you richer

Less food fills your belly tighter!



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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Here we go with those awful, evil, successful people. How dare anyone succeed, let all those nasty business owners lower their standard of living; make unskilled workers feel equal and not hurt their feelings.

Instead of whining about low wages, try going to college or tradeschool, if not don't expect to make alot of money. Don't expect a job flipping burgers to pay anymore money than deserved. If you dont like it, get another job.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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The best solution is to ship out all of the illegal aliens and severely penalize any business who retains illegals or continues to hire illegals - no more excuses, all business would have the same cost burden .

That would cause a shortage in the lower class jobs, thus businesses would have to pay more to keep and retain new USA citizen workers.

Increases in labor costs are a small portion of the costs of doing businesses so it would not hurt the consumer much but it would help the out of work adults and kids saving for college.



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by Janky Red
 


Ad hominem --------


Are you suggesting because I provided backing to my arguement that I must just mindlessly follow Ann Rynd? Oh and I speak in Er duh......

Sorry sir, you can set up your emotional straw-man all you like, but it seems rather than making a case for minimum wage (which a few on here have and have done so clearly), you choose to just lash out and moan.


EAD

you're eligere -

Your entire argument is a straw man

The base wage in China is $.38

We source our goods from places with such wages

the global market would dictate that you normalize for competition


Care to leave your addy?
send you some straw?


[edit on 15-12-2009 by Janky Red]



posted on Dec, 15 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


Dude why do you pay any attention to FAUX news at all. It's not a legitimate news organisation. It's like a private religious blog with 99999999 times distortions.



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