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Fox News: cutting minimum wage ‘better for workers’

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posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 07:21 PM
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rawstory.com...


WASHINGTON -- As the recession continues to weigh heavily on the livelihoods of millions, the Fox News Channel on Monday suggested lowering the minimum wage, suggesting it could be "better for workers."

"The minimum wage is kind of like a sacred cow in Washington, with many, many lawmakers thinking it's a win-win for low-skilled workers," said Fox anchor Juliet Huddy. "But what if those good intentions backfired?"

"One school of thought says lowering the minimum wage will actually create more jobs," she continued, without mentioning any counterargument.

Laws enacted by Congress following the Democratic takeover in 2007 have increased the federal minimum wage to $7.25 an hour as of this July. Prior to that, the minimum wage hadn't been raised since 1997.

Inviting Fox News correspondent James Rosen to discuss the issue, Huddy first asked him: "Why don't we often hear about lowering the minimum wage?"


If lowering the Min. Wage is good; why isn't lowering the wage and salaries of the Fox executives, and all the other do nothing corporate running dogs that inhabit America also a good idea.

But Noooooo....let's place the blame and responsibility on the waitresses, roofers, fast food people, dishwashers, gardeners and laborers.

The GOP is doing it's best to alienate everyone but the wealthy and inturn selfdistruct.




posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 07:39 PM
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Ummm... Did you watch the video at the bottom of your own source page?

I watched it, it is a report about a book titled "Minimum Wages" which appears to be a study by David Neumark of the University of California and William Wascher of the Federal reserve.

Do you see some kind of "promotion" by the "Reporter" in this report?

I call Fox hype.



[edit on 14-12-2009 by infolurker]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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This is insane, but I'm just here to opine that waitress' in fact make less then minimum wage.

Did you know rich people taste better? All you cannibals out there, take note.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 


If Fox isn't bashing it, they agree with it.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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Seems you knee jerked your reaction to this. Did you research as to why the claim was made? Why does minimum wages effect workers poorly and adversely? Why would a minimum wage be a bad idea?

If none of those questions, or ones similar popped into your mind when you heard the report, then you are coming from a highly biased view or you have extensive knowledge as to why it wouldn't hurt workers.

I challenge you to critically think about what is being said in the book that was promoted along with reading the following article by a highly acclaimed economist. Quick Note: You may not like the site it comes from and I do not care for it much either. Its not the site I am sending you to, its the article. Read with an objective mindset.

Minimum Wage - Minimum Folly

I hope to further discuss this with you or anyone.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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This thread makes me both laugh and cry at the ignorance.

My only question would be: If minimum wages are good, why not just raise it to $10 an hour? Why not $20? Why not mandate that everyone in the country makes $100 an hour?

You're right, it's not that easy, but it sure sounds like it should be when people say "Someone doesn't like the minimum wage? They must hate poor people!!" then point nothing out about how to fix it.

Ignorance.

(For the record, my fix? Abolish the minimum wage altogether.)



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 


I read the article you provided and this is what stuck out that made it lose all credibility and turned it into just conservative BS rhetoric and fantasy.


Poor people are not poor because of low wages. For the most part, they're poor because of low productivity,



As a young man I worked for min. wage and I can assure you that me and my fellow workers were not "low productivity" workers.

A bold statement like the quoted, requires some concrete proof. Got any?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:05 PM
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I spent a few minutes checking out the main author. He has been writing about this for years and the book has been out for a year it appears. Below is a summary from a couple of the websites:

www.heritage.org...


As the table demonstrates, over three-fifths of individuals living below the poverty line did not work, and only 11 percent worked full-time year-round. Families are poor not because they earn low wages but because they do not have full-time jobs. The median family with children living below the poverty line works only 1,040 hours a year in total.[8] That is only 20 hours per week. If at least one parent in every poor household worked full-time year-round, the child poverty rate in the United States would plummet by 72 percent.[9] Rais­ing the minimum wage does not address this prob­lem and, by causing businesses to hire fewer workers, actually makes it harder for potential workers to find full-time jobs.

Conclusion

Extensive research shows that the minimum wage does little to reduce poverty. While this may appear counterintuitive, deeper analysis reveals three reasons behind the minimum wage's ineffectiveness.

First, a higher minimum wage causes employers to cut back on both the number of workers they hire and their employees' working hours.

Second, the beneficiaries of higher minimum wages are unlikely to be poor because most mini­mum-wage earners are not poor.

Finally, few individuals living in poverty work at minimum-wage jobs or any job.

For all its advocates' good intentions, raising the minimum wage will not reduce poverty in America.



And a book summary:

www.flipkart.com...


Book: Minimum Wages And Employment
Minimum Wages and Employment focuses on the "new minimum wage research." This is the first comprehensive review of the literature in the past fifteen years. It includes the initial round of the new minimum wage research on the employment effects of the minimum wage, major conceptual and empirical issues that arose out of that research, recent increases in minimum wage laws, and the empirical research on the employment effects of the minimum wage in other countries. Minimum Wages and Employment provides an assessment of alternative models of the labor market. It offers general conclusions about the effects of the minimum wage on employment that are relevant to policymakers, pointing out in what context and for which workers the minimum wage will have consequences. Finally, by presenting a comprehensive review of the more recent minimum wage literature, the authors explain the range of results in the literature, identify sources of differences in these results, and determine what conclusions can be drawn from the literature.


So, there is a very quick summary of this guy's book for what it is worth.

How the news report talking about this book deserves the:


"But Noooooo....let's place the blame and responsibility on the waitresses, roofers, fast food people, dishwashers, gardeners and laborers.

The GOP is doing it's best to alienate everyone but the wealthy and inturn selfdistruct.
does not make sense based on the news video or the summary of what the book is about if you watch the video or read the background on the topic.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by infolurker]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by infolurker
 



Conclusion

Extensive research shows that the minimum wage does little to reduce poverty. While this may appear counterintuitive, deeper analysis reveals three reasons behind the minimum wage's ineffectiveness.

First, a higher minimum wage causes employers to cut back on both the number of workers they hire and their employees' working hours.

Second, the beneficiaries of higher minimum wages are unlikely to be poor because most mini­mum-wage earners are not poor.

Finally, few individuals living in poverty work at minimum-wage jobs or any job.

For all its advocates' good intentions, raising the minimum wage will not reduce poverty in America.


I'm calling BS on that extensive research that is so transparently promoted by some conservative think tank with a conservative agenda.

You want fries with that?





[edit on 14-12-2009 by whaaa]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa


Poor people are not poor because of low wages. For the most part, they're poor because of low productivity,



As a young man I worked for min. wage and I can assure you that me and my fellow workers were not "low productivity" workers.


Quick edit...you left out something on your quote from the article that I feel you did on purpose.....the full quote is as follows....


Poor people are not poor because of low wages. For the most part, they're poor because of low productivity, and wages are connected to productivity.


Sure...he stated 'For the most part'. No where did he blanket the whole of low wage earners as being all 'low productivity'.

Let us go to the US Department of Labor statistics.

According to 2008 Household Data Annual Averages
Source


Now we can look at the numbers here, but the real indicator as to who is actually employed at minimum wages is the percentages and the ages they fall in. Other thing to note here is the statistics do not show a break down beyond the age of 25.

So, from those statistics....16-24 year old's hold the bulk of minimum wage paying jobs. As they should. They are going to school and such.

Now another page of statistics....
Source

From here we can see the occupations that minimum age earners work in. Lets find all the ones above say....10%

Food preparation and serving related occupations
Leisure and hospitality
Accommodation and food services
Food services and drinking places

That is it...the rest are pretty far behind in comparison.

I believe most of the workers in those occupations are probably highly motivated and highly productive workers, but the type of work they do, does not warrant higher pay. Pay shouldn't be based on your position in life, but rather your skill set and what it is required to perform a certain task. A waitress that is quick, punctual and never screws up an order will get compensated rightly through tips.

A cook at Mc Donalds, I am sorry to say is not the caliber of cooks you see in a 5-star restaurant.

Ugh...forgive me...I hate throwing statistics around in replies.

You discounted a slew of information in an article because of the writers personal opinion, when everything else is fact. Why?

[edit on 14-12-2009 by ownbestenemy]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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suggested lowering the minimum wage, suggesting it could be "better for workers."


Lowering the minimum wage would be very beneficial to workers. How you ask? It is because with more people making less money per hour , they can afford less things. Businesses sell products to people based on what they are willing to pay. So if the majority of people only make 4 dollars an hour, they would not spend 3 dollars on a loaf of bread, they might pay 40 cents. Breadmakers would not want to go out of buisness so they would find a way to sell bread at 40 cents.

Now if minimum wage has dropped and a large part of the population is making 4 dollars an hour, it is going to drop prices drastically. And that means more money you and I can keep in our pockets.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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I hope ATSer's realize what minimum wage is.

Minimum wage = If I could pay you less...I would.

But i will say this...until we do something about our horrible trade and completely unfair trade policies...it won't matter and will likely make the steadfast exodus of jobs escalate.

The very fact that we are having a discussion about minimum wage means that PEOPLE ARE HURTING!

If they weren't we wouldn't be discussing it.

[edit on 14-12-2009 by David9176]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:39 PM
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And another economist on why it does more harm than good....

Economic Effects on the Economy

Probably just another one of those hate-filled baby killer republicans though right?

Go down to your local college and ask for a consensus from the economics department while using the following question:

Does artificial wages, such as minimum wage standards help create more or less jobs?

Tell me what they come up with....you would be surprised.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by ownbestenemy
 






Ugh...forgive me...I hate throwing statistics around in replies.



Then don't....

Do I need to remind you about what they say about statistics....

Perhaps you forgot.


“Statistics are no substitute for judgment”
Henry Clay




posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


But yet you care to not refute what was said?



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by ownbestenemy
reply to post by whaaa
 


But yet you care to not refute what was said?



Here ya go......

www.raiseminwage.org...
www.mobilityagenda.org...
www.csmonitor.com...


I just happen to believe these people rather than people that benifit from not paying min. wage or providing benifits to maximize profits and to hell with the people that do the dirty work.




[edit on 14-12-2009 by whaaa]



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:18 PM
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It is me or anybody is noticing that the morons on the upper classes have no clue what the working class in the nation is facing since the recession.

The class division has become so wide that nobody cares about how to make this nation productive again, we have gone backward rather than forward through the years, due to the corruption and greed of those that runs this nation.

As today most of the jobs left in the nation are either government or service jobs.

How much more do we have to take for people to open their eyes to the realities of what goes on around us.

The media is manipulated and people believes whatever is fed on the media so putting the burden of our economy on the backs of the working force will benefit only one sector and is not the common people one.

Remember while is been pushed to us by news media this moronic idea the big rats at the top are getting million dollars bonuses.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
It is me or anybody is noticing that the morons on the upper classes have no clue what the working class in the nation is facing since the recession.



No marge, it's not just you. They feed us academic platitudes and statistics to try and hide their greed and evil.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


But you know how it works Whaaa, very soon you are to see people even agreeing with this "idea" and even rallying for workers to give up their minimum wages for the good of the economy.



posted on Dec, 14 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


reply to post by marg6043
 


You guys sure do have all the compassion.

I did find it pretty funny that someone expressed that people use academics and statistics to hide greed. Makes me really curious who the close-minded ones are.

Personally, I don't fault anyone for succeeding. When I see someone making a lot of money, it's just another piece of evidence that I can do it myself. Guess what I'll be doing when that happens? Creating new jobs. I hope I can pay people enough to not be one of those greedy corporate bastards though, otherwise my success will just be touted as selfish.

How much IS enough, anyway? I still haven't heard any good numbers. What do you have to pay your employees so as not to be considered greedy? A number would be outstanding. While you're at it, how much is too much for a bonus? How about a salary? How much can one person have in their bank account before they become slime?

An exact dollar amount would be preferred, please. I need to know where to stop succeeding.



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