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Gorbachev Exposes Global Communist Environmentalism Conspiracy.

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posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


Even socialism is dead! Europe and canada used to be socialistic 20-30 years ago but unfortunately they had to adapt to capitalism to survive in our competitive world.

And obama is far from a socialist! He is a democrat(moderate capitalist) whereas republicans are ultra-capitalists. Its almost the same thing if you ask me because in the end ITS ILLUMINATI! The two party system, which is true in most countries, is a bad joke.




posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 


Funny? Is this funny:


Thats what environmental extremism is already helping perpetrate, while current happenings are attempting to make it even worse.
www.prisonplanet.com...

Communism vs. Socialism:


One point that is frequently raised to distinguish socialism from communism is that socialism generally refers to an economic system, while communism generally refers to both an economic and a political system. As an economic system, socialism seeks to manage the economy through deliberate and collective social control. Communism, however, seeks to manage both the economy and the society by ensuring that property is owned collectively, and that control over the distribution of property is centralized in order to achieve both classlessness and statelessness.

...Another difference between socialism and communism is centered on who controls the structure of economy. Where socialism generally aims to have as many people as possible influence how the economy works, communism seeks to limit that number to a smaller group.
www.wisegeek.com...


Anyone want to explain how what the environmentalist extremists are proposing, and what is already happening in those and other regards is different than communism.

Ok, so the claim of the global government proponents is that all nations will have a say in the global management of of the earths distribution of resources (rationing is the obvious outcome), but in practice its already apparent that the IMF / World Bank will dictate the 'money', while the UN dictates the politics. At this point is there any point arguing over whether or not its 'communism'? In the 'communism' context you laugh at, how your sentiment could make sense is if I were screaming about a 'soviet' agenda. But again, describe to us the difference.

By many measures the US is already a de facto communist state, and that argument was already valid before the privately owned Federal Reserve took control of the mortgage and banking industry's last year. But just because the Fed (and Eurobank) are privately owned tyranny's doesnt make them non-communistic, because in practice they operate the same.

Read the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto:
www.libertyzone.com...

Communism, in my view, is the pure form of socialism. Much like you have Authoritarianism, and its pure form is Totalitarianism. SO we're talking about degrees of purity on a scale. And not only is the move to global government, and international currency, and government healthcare (in the US), taken over mortgage and banking industry, auto industry, and so on... The US & UK are 2 of the biggest and most hardcore Police State's history has seen, and this trend is accelerating into total Totalitarianism everyday.

So, now that we're finally getting into specific discussion about the nature of the new system, I've been referring to it as Neo-Communism for some time:
*Neocommunism to prevent the masses from affording Life Extension technologies.
*The Federal Reserve Suck Machine is propelling US into ‘Neocommunism’.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 





And obama is far from a socialist

Well, that is obviously your opinion, and it is obvious that no one is going to change your mind, so I see no further point in debating it with you. If you cannot recognize socialism when you see it(such as the government taking over industries like:
1.) Auto industry
2.) Banks
3.) Wall Street Firms
4.) Health Care

then you never will recognize it.
Have a nice day.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:44 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 





So then, do you disagree with these 2?



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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You guys want real socialism? Here it is...

Socialist Party Of America

Visit the above url to become a registered member and leave obama alone.



Socialist Party USA


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Socialist Party USA, (also known as the Socialist Party of the United States of America [1]) is a revolutionary democratic socialist and multi-tendency political party in the United States. The party is the eponymous heir to the Socialist Party of America, which had previously adopted the name Socialist Party USA in 1962.

History
In 1958, the Trotskyist Independent Socialist League led by Max Shachtman dissolved to join the SPA. Shachtman, whose politics had begun to move sharply to the right since his days as a Trotskyist leader, argued both for militant opposition to Soviet-style Communism and that the Socialist Party should attempt to simply re-align with the Democratic Party, losing independence. By 1972 Shachtman's Unity Caucus had taken control of the Socialist Party and blocked a resolution opposing the Vietnam War. In the 1972 presidential election, Shachtman's caucus initially backed hawkish Cold Warrior Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson, then adopted AFL-CIO President George Meany's position of neutrality between the two candidates nominated by the major parties.

In response, two groups broke off: the first being the Coalition Caucus led by Michael Harrington supported antiwar Democrat George McGovern and went on to form the Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee (later becoming the Democratic Socialists of America), while the left-wing Debs Caucus backed People's Party anti-war candidate Benjamin Spock. The Debs Caucus formed the Union for Democratic Socialism, which officially reconstituted the Socialist Party USA in 1973, when the Shachtmanites who remained in the Socialist Party re-named their organization Social Democrats USA. Numerous local and state branches of the old Socialist Party, including the Wisconsin, California, Illinois, New York City, Philadelphia, and Washington D.C. Party branches, participated in the reconstitution of the Socialist Party USA.[3]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
You guys want real socialism? Here it is...

Visit the above url to become a registered member and leave obama alone.


No thank you, I have experienced the Socialist goal of Communism, and still have family trapped in a Socialist/Communist dictatorship...

President Obama is a Socialist, but he is called as a "Progressive" which is the new name given to many of the new Socialist/Communist elite...

BTW, the Prof is right... When the government takes over a PRIVATE COMPANY, and makes it property of the state... When the government wants to take over the entire healthcare system, and the government wants to take over all infraestructure, that is called SOCIALISM....

But keep trying to dismiss these facts...


[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


BTW "Earthcitizen"... when you see Socialists call themselves "revolutionaries" they are Communists in disguise....


But hey keep dismissing HISTORY, and keep dismissing that your ideology is the reason why over 100 MILLION people were murdered, and millions more imprisoned for not accepting the ultimate goal of Socialism which is Communism....



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
 



Leftists Noam Chomsky & John Pilger have argued for many years that the Cold War was just a phony scheme perpetrated by both sides to justify taking over the world. I mean, obviously each side did do this, but the jist I've gotten from both of them implies a sort of collaboration, much like the Democrats & Republicans.


It wasn't so much as a 'collaboration' as it was an opportunity to make money; a manipulation of events. This is the smoking gun, a trilogy of books written economists and pseudo conspiracy theorist Antony Sutton:

Wall Street and FDR

Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution

Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler

However, I disagree with his - and yours, for that matter - theory of a global left wing conspiracy bent on world domination. Reading up on actual Socialist, Marxist or Communist theory might be beneficial if you want to undertake a legitimate study of the potential continued influence of these socio-economic ideologies on the modern world. Know thy enemy before you go after him - or you might end up lost.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
You guys want real socialism? Here it is...

Visit the above url to become a registered member and leave obama alone.


No thank you, I have experienced the Socialist goal of Communism, and still have family trapped in a Socialist/Communist dictatorship...

President Obama is a Socialist, but he is called as a "Progressive" which is the new name given to many of the new Socialist/Communist elite...

BTW, the Prof is right... When the government takes over a PRIVATE COMPANY, and makes it property of the state... When the government wants to take over the entire healthcare system, and the government wants to take over all infraestructure, that is called SOCIALISM....

But keep trying to dismiss these facts...


[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]


To be fair, the government option for health coverage will just be an alternative - it won't take over health insurance companies. In fact, if they go the route of the Massachusetts plan, it winds up being a windfall for said insurance providers, who now will have more customers, who are subsidized.

What's really happening, is not that the government is taking over businesses, but the reverse, in a manner less subtle by the day.

Sure, we have social programs, but this is a nation tilted very heavily in favor of the rich - more so now than in many decades. This is the age of the new robber barons.

We are more like Fascists - corporatists - an oligarchy/kleptocracy - than socialist.


But it's all semantics anyway, right? However you slice it, we are being violently robbed of our fiscal and political power


[edit on 10-12-2009 by TrueTruth]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Someone336

However, I disagree with his - and yours, for that matter - theory of a global left wing conspiracy bent on world domination. Reading up on actual Socialist, Marxist or Communist theory might be beneficial if you want to undertake a legitimate study of the potential continued influence of these socio-economic ideologies on the modern world. Know thy enemy before you go after him - or you might end up lost.


Really? and what is your proof that "there is no leftwing conspiracy bent on world domination" when the goal of EVERY Socialist/Communist group is to spread their disease around the world?...and more so to do so by force by forming "violent worker's uprisings"....

Didn't China go to Vietnam and other areas trying to impose Communism on the people?....

Wasn't the U.S.S.R. doing the same thing?....

They are still doing it but by covert means, by weakening the economy of Capitalist countries, and even by allying themselves with terrorists and using terrorists for their goals...

Many of my uncles, who still live in Cuba, were sent by the Communist dictatorship to Angola, and other parts of the world to fight with other "revolutionaries" to spread Communism...

No offense by you really have no idea what you are talking about.




[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by TrueTruth
..........
What's really happening, is not that the government is taking over businesses, but the reverse, in a manner less subtle by the day.

Sure, we have social programs, but this is a nation tilted very heavily in favor of the rich - more so now than in many decades. This is the age of the new robber barons.

We are more like Fascists - corporatists - an oligarchy/kleptocracy - than socialist.
.................


Not really. Just because the Progressive/Socialist/Communist elite are rich it doesn't mean they are "fascists".


The Progressive/Socialist/Communist elite are using Capitalism, and indoctrinating people into believing "Socialist/Communist programs are the solution to all the world's problems."

The fact that they are rich doesn't make them any less Socialist/Communist.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 



Really? and what is your proof that "there is no leftwing conspiracy bent on world domination" when the goal of EVERY Socialist/Communist group is to spread their disease around the world?...and more so to do so by force by forming "violent worker's uprisings"....


Perhaps I should have clarified. I was referring to the idea that there is a secret communist society staging a coup in the US through Obama to implement communism. I've yet to see any proof of that, especially considering that Obama still falls to the right of the political spectrum when compared to European countries and buddies up to big business.

And right there is my proof for the lack of conspiracy: behind every so called "progressive" political movement is the same consortium of multinationals, looking to preserve their flailing way of life and profit at the same time.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 


The american government is a CORPORATION! The act of 1871 created a new BANKER constitution.

See the-usa-isnt-a-country-its-a-corporation

And YouTube - UNITED STATES is a Corporation - There are Two Constitutions


So in essence, yes the government is taking over everything but since it is a corporation that means *A For Profit* enterprise but where is all the revenue going then? Maybe the NWO bankers....

In the soviet union there were was no such thing as *corporations*.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by TrueTruth
..........
What's really happening, is not that the government is taking over businesses, but the reverse, in a manner less subtle by the day.

Sure, we have social programs, but this is a nation tilted very heavily in favor of the rich - more so now than in many decades. This is the age of the new robber barons.

We are more like Fascists - corporatists - an oligarchy/kleptocracy - than socialist.
.................


Not really. Just because the Progressive/Socialist/Communist elite are rich it doesn't mean they are "fascists".


The Progressive/Socialist/Communist elite are using Capitalism, and indoctrinating people into believing "Socialist/Communist programs are the solution to all the world's problems."

The fact that they are rich doesn't make them any less Socialist/Communist.


I just don't see the evidence. All the evidence I am seeing, points towards an increasing centralization of power, centered around a nucleus of banks and corporations. These are the hallmarks of fascism.

The 'ownership' issue isn't really true. The government won't be 'owning' the health care industry, discussed above.

The 'ownership' of Wall Street is just plain backwards, although the distinction between governments and business is thin at best. Bankers own politicians, not the other way around.

The things you attribute to the government, are actually being orchestrated by the people who line their pockets, and get them elected. It's a simple puppet show. We have a puppet government, and two puppet political parties connected to the same beast.

The 'ownership' of the banks is really the government siphoning money out of the people's pockets, and forking it over to the rich to the bankers/business owners. We're funding the elite's gambling habit that they play out in a casino called Wall Street, and paying off businesses who run themselves into the ground in a self consuming looting process, as money gets pulled to the top.

This isn't socialism. It's packaged like socialism, but it isn't really.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Interesting, I didn't know about that about the United States being a corporation. I'll definitely look more into that. But of course, capitalism can't be evil, it simply can't! How could a system built on greed not be good?

Who backed these people and movements?

The Bolshevik Revolution: American International Corporation (connected to the Rockefeller family, General Electric, Kuehn Loebs, and National City Bank), the Federal Reserve (consists of Wall Street directorship)

The Nazi Party: I.G. Farben (tied to GM, the Federal Reserve, Ford, Warburg, Bank of Manhattan and Standard Oil), General Electric, ITT, Henry Ford, Thyssen Krupp, W.A. Harriman

FDR - GE, Standard Oil, Kuhn Loeb

Obama - The Trilateral Commission (founded by a Rockefeller) Goldman Sachs, AIG, the Federal Reserve, Citigroup, J.P. Morgan and Chase, Morgan Stanley, General Electric

The global warming agenda is being pushed by ExxonMobile, Shell, and other big oil companies.


[edit on 10-12-2009 by Someone336]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by TrueTruth
This isn't socialism. It's packaged like socialism, but it isn't really.


Indeed it ISN'T socialism! It is FACISM packaged to resemble socialism and mainstream media keeps pimping the same line again, again, again, again, ad infinitum..........................

The patriot act and homeland security should have made it abunduntly clear by now...NATIONAL socialism! Keyword *national* being synonomous with italian facism and german nazism. All based on PURE LIES of "islamic terrorists" to justify imperialism in the middle east and dehumanisation of usa citizens.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Someone336

Perhaps I should have clarified. I was referring to the idea that there is a secret communist society staging a coup in the US through Obama to implement communism. I've yet to see any proof of that, especially considering that Obama still falls to the right of the political spectrum when compared to European countries and buddies up to big business.
....


Really? The fact that President Obama has signed into law Socialist/Communist programs doesn't make it a take over of Socialism/Comunism by way of the Obama administration?...

We have bills like H.R. 1388 which PResident Obama signed in which he gives power over education, and community service to something called "the corporation..."

We have had SEVERAL threads excerpting the goals that the "Progressive Democrats" want to implemten which include a mandatory electronic citizen verification through the use of implanted chips.

They also talk about wanting a MANDATORY Community Service program in which Americans will have to participate starting from secondary school 9meaning CHILDREN), and there are other bills in which the "Progressive Democrats" also want children from primary to also do hard labor for the state without pay....

This sort of program exists in true Socialist/Communist nations like Cuba. Children starting from 11 -12 years old have to do "MANDATORY Community Service" for the state without pay...

I remember very well how my older sisters had to be dragged by the Communist "social service" people to a bus, and they kept on crying asking my parents not to let them be taken to the hard labor camps... but if my parents interfered then the Communist state would take the children away from my parents because "the parents were interfering with the children becoming good Communists"....

We have had SEVERAL threads in which the different bills are shown with excerpts directly from Congress....

The following link is one of the threads i made about this.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

H.R. 1388 also talks about a "centralized electronic citizen verification system" ....


Directs the Corporation to plan pilot programs to: (1) better target and serve displaced workers; and (2) establish a centralized electronic citizenship verification system which would allow the Corporation to share employment eligibility information with the Department of Education.


It goes on to.


Eliminates the current Community-Based Learn and Serve programs.
..........
Establishes an Education Awards Only program authorizing the Corporation for National and Community Service (Corporation) to provide fixed-amount grants to programs that have approved national service positions, but no AmeriCorps funding.


capwiz.com...

We can read in bill H.R. 1388 things like.



SEC. 115. PARTICIPATION OF STUDENTS AND TEACHERS FROM PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

`(a) In General- To the extent consistent with the number of students in the State, Territory, or Indian tribe or in the school district of the local educational agency involved who are enrolled in private nonprofit elementary and secondary schools, such State, Territory, Indian tribe, or agency shall (after consultation with appropriate private school representatives) make provision--

`(1) for the inclusion of services and arrangements for the benefit of such students so as to allow for the equitable participation of such students in the programs implemented to carry out the objectives and provide the benefits described in this part; and

`(2) for the training of the teachers of such students so as to allow for the equitable participation of such teachers in the programs implemented to carry out the objectives and provide the benefits described in this part.

`(b) Waiver- If a State, Territory, Indian tribe, or local educational agency is prohibited by law from providing for the participation of students or teachers from private nonprofit schools as required by subsection (a), or if the Corporation determines that a State, Territory, Indian tribe, or local educational agency substantially fails or is unwilling to provide for such participation on an equitable basis, the Chief Executive Officer shall waive such requirements and shall arrange for the provision of services to such students and teachers. Such waivers shall be subject to the requirements of sections 9503 and 9504 of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 7883 and 7884).
............

Thomas.loc

So you can't get out if you, and your children are in a tribe, or if you have enrolled your children in a private school...

And if you don't think that this will be REQUIRED, think again...



SEC. 1302. REQUIRED AND ELIGIBLE NATIONAL SERVICE PROGRAMS.

Section 122 is amended to read as follows:

`SEC. 122. NATIONAL SERVICE PROGRAMS ELIGIBLE FOR PROGRAM ASSISTANCE.

`(a) Required National Service Corps- The recipient of a grant under section 121(a) and each Federal agency operating or supporting a national service program under section 121(b) shall, directly or through grants or subgrants to other entities, carry out or support the following national service corps, as full- or part-time corps, including during the summer months, to address unmet educational, health, veteran, or environmental needs:
...........

Thomas.loc


BTW, the links are only temporary, the Thomas.loc.gov links for some reason only stay up for a little while, but you can search online and find other links that verify all of the above, and more.

But then we have some really brainwashed Americans who think MANDATORY Community Service, and MANDATORY National military service "is good for the nation"....



Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Man y'all sound like a bunch of alarmists...

I'm in total support of this bill.

I'm calling my senators today to tell them I want them to pass it.

If EVERYONE spent a little time in national service we would be much better off.



Obviously there are Americans, and people in the world who are so brainwashed, and indoctrinated into accepting that givng up individual freedom is "good for the nation"....

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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When it comes down to it, 'national socialism', 'fascism', 'communism'... when it comes down to it they're all roughly the same old tyranny.

This video drives home the point:

Google Video Link


But I view communism in terms of "command & control", centralized power, which is the very nature of the Federal Reserve, Eurobank, UN, European Parliment, IMF, World Bank, the current US "Federal" government, and so on.

And 'evidence' of Obama engaging in "command & control" just happened again yesterday:
Obama threatens Congress, EPA ‘Command-and-Control’ Regulation Over Emissions.

The more you compound centralized power and dictation over facets of peoples lives the more into the realm of Communism you delve. And on O, the goal of the environment extremists is global centralization of resource rationing.

And sure the multinational corporations are deeply routed in all of this, but like with the privately owned Federal Reserve, how it operates in practice is the issue. Hence, privately owned Federal Reserve dictates central economic planning = the communist model in practice.



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by TrueTruth
I just don't see the evidence. All the evidence I am seeing, points towards an increasing centralization of power, centered around a nucleus of banks and corporations. These are the hallmarks of fascism.

The 'ownership' issue isn't really true. The government won't be 'owning' the health care industry, discussed above.
..................


Oh boy... Centralization of power is the goal of Socialism... The STATE of the REpublic of the U.S. OWNS GM....meanwhile the Canadian government owns a smaller portion of it...

When the STATE takes over private companies it is SOCIALISM/COMMUNISM.

I am also sure people like you think that Hitler was a fascist and not a Socialist...



posted on Dec, 10 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by EarthCitizen07
 


Check out my above post and video


You do have a point though. I'vebeen saying for years we have a sort of perfect merger of communism and fascism, that is all the worse parts. But as I observe the shift to more centralized command and control the scarier it becomes. Whatever we want to call this thing it has to be stopped.

Great remarks on this page everyone

This is important discussion!



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