Hitler's Agreement With Zionists.

I wonder if the REAL purpose of the Holocaust was to purify the Jewish gene pool of "Gentile" blood.

i mean, most Jews around today look pretty Middle Eastern, but Anne Frank looked more Turkish or something.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by bigyin
reply to post by mmiichael

 

And what makes you think the ADL are any more believable ?

It's about the qualities of information.

Facts and data have to be given context not cherry-picked to move an agenda.

Are you saying ADL is supplying misinformation and the Neo-Nazis are telling the Truth?

Ah, mikey
You never learn son.
The Zionists beat feet from Germany with the dough.
The poor Jews paid the price. Same as in Lenin's Russia.
Do you approve of this modus operendi???
Come on back here!

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Ah, mikey
You never learn son.
The Zionists beat feet from Germany with the dough.
The poor Jews paid the price. Same as in Lenin's Russia.
Do you approve of this modus operendi???
Come on back here!

What I have learned after a year on ATS is that there is no shortage of completely ignorant semi-literate mental defective pushing their malicious agendas at every opportunity.

reply to post by mmiichael

I appreciate your gratitude but you don't need to thank me..

Firstly, before you start casting aspersions, would you please tell me where I said those were MY views? Did I not CLEARLY use the word 'apparently' after pasting the quote?

Second, I had no idea about anything regarding Mr Weber and care nothing for him nor his political leanings. His article was merely the first one that showed in my search. I have actually been aware of this story for some time after hearing it mentioned by a reporter who backed up his article with an actual photo (I'm looking for it and will post if found).
Further, to quote the ADL as being a more reliable source is your choice but can you not see how it weakens your argument, since the ADL undoubtedly has close ties with the Israeli/Zionist ruling families whose No.1 agency, Mossad, flies the motto, "By way of deception, thou shalt wage war" (more or less...'by deceiving and being dishonest, we shall fight our wars'). So who exactly do you suggest we trust in this situation?

The ship in question had previously been named the Hohen-Stein and exactly the same story can be found on the 'Jews against Zionism' website (are you happy now?) along with morsels of information such as...

"The wide ranging collaboration between Zionism and Hitler's Third Reich. In early January 1941 a small but important Zionist organization submitted a formal proposal to German diplomats in Beirut for a military-political alliance with wartime Germany. The offer was made by the radical underground "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel", better known as the Lehi or Stern Gang. Its leader, Avraham Stern, had recently broken with the radical nationalist "National Military Organization" (Irgun Zvai Leumi - Etzel) over the group's attitude toward Britain, which had effectively banned further Jewish settlement of Palestine".

Link...www.jewsagainstzionism.com...

To change the subject,
I saw that you wrote on a different post these words...

"We now know tens of millions were involved or aware of the genocide. Many are still alive. There has never been any question 6 Million Jewish unarmed non-military people were hunted down, transported and murdered by the Nazis in outright violation of mutually agreed terms of warfare. Despite late in the war attempts to destroy incriminating evidence by the Germans, tens of thousands of pages of their own records survived and are available to the public".

Sorry, but who now knows? and what? That 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust? These wouldn't be the same six million that according to the 'American Hebrew October 31, 1919' were also dying would they?

Source...www.historiography-project.com...

Lot's of Jews died, true. Yet after visiting different camps and sites across Europe, I was feeling under the impression that as part of the deal with his Zionist? financiers, Hitler agreed to use IBM to round up and tag all the European Jews he could find and send them to the camps, from where they could be shipped off to Palestine more easily.
It was well recorded that from the 1920's on, the Zionist leadership was canvassing all Jews to give up their lives wherever (often wealthy, abundant and luxurious) and head off to live in a desert (yippee!)... then known as Palestine.
It was also well recorded that most Jews declined the offer, leaving the Zionist plans for Israel in the balance.
I have no doubt that millions of Jews were rounded up and sent to the camps (along with millions of gypsies, criminals and political/social undesirables) but due to lack of documented evidence, I now believe that a great many took the -renewed - offer they received once there to move on and settle in Palestine. This would certainly explain the lack of evidence of 6 million Jewish deaths.

When I went to Auschwitz I found it strange how they had triplicate photo/document evidence when they murdered everyone else (well over a million) but only had the same for around 300,000 Jews. I say only, but as we all know, any human extermination is totally unacceptable.
Furthermore a cornerstone of the original 6 million figure, was the plaque erected at Auschwitz in 1945 which boldly stated that 4 million had perished in that one camp alone. Yet when years later that Auschwitz number was revised to approx' 1,500,000, the magic 6 million number remained the same. The plaque is still there, it's interesting to see.

Link.. wiki.majorityrights.com...

If also there were 1,092,000 Jewish holocaust survivors in Israel in 2004, then how many millions of camp survivors were there in say, 1954?

Source.. www.nytimes.com...

Lastly why was the largest Auschwitz camp, Birkenau, known as the gypsy camp? It is clearly where most of the murders occurred, surely if MOST of the victims were Jewish, then it would follow to name the largest camp the Jewish camp...No?


As across the Reich, the exterminations en masse began in November 1942 following Heydrichs assassination and lasted until November 1944 (730ish days) at which point the guards simply walked out leaving all the documents behind which would later be used as evidence. The massive anomaly regarding the Jewish deaths at Auschwitz is explained away in the museum there, by claiming that the Jews were all exterminated upon arrival. Fine, so why were there soooo many Jewish survivors?

It's nothing personal, I have always had many close Jewish friends and the camps were among the worst of human crimes, however, the popular story is massively flawed and only held in place but over-the-top 'freedom of speech' laws (i.e. Germany and Austria) and fine institutions such as the ever vigilant Anti Defamation League. The Zionist tried the same number in 1919...it didn't wash. It worked in 1945. Maybe, just like Mossad, the Zionists deliberately lied, however, maybe they sincerely believed it?

You seem to... I used to...

It was tragic in the camps, yet the Zionists got Israel. The world got divided.. Adolf Hitler kept his side of the deal (to a degree) and whether people like it or not, the truth is, 'NO Hitler, NO Israel... therefore old Mr 'one-testicle' Adolf, himself, can be seen as a (if not THE) founder of Israel.
Lighten up about it. It was just some crazy times... if you watch carefully, in the U.S. they are on the same path as the Nazi's were with their camps. Egocentric humans just do this #...Russians, Yanks, Chinese, British, Cambodians etc. AND......ISRAELIS, so can we please all move on now and after seventy long years, drop the 6 million holocaust story and look forward instead of always looking back?

Well, I'm gonna.

As I said, love and peace, people...

Let's hope we DON'T repeat this dark period in our history.

reply to post by mmiichael



That is why I said you never learn.
And I will also say you are off topic as usual with no content as usual
and in your totally offensive manner, as usual.
So you approve of my incredibly accurate red neck trailer trash
statements any ways. Was it the modus operandi that threw ya dude?
PS could it be your daddy paid for your education so you could act so freaking butt like.

[edit on 6-12-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by Adolf Springer
It was tragic in the camps, yet the Zionists got Israel. The world got divided.. Adolf Hitler kept his side of the deal (to a degree) and whether people like it or not, the truth is, 'NO Hitler, NO Israel... therefore old Mr 'one-testicle' Adolf, himself, can be seen as a (if not THE) founder of Israel.
Lighten up about it. It was just some crazy times... if you watch carefully, in the U.S. they are on the same path as the Nazi's were with their camps. Egocentric humans just do this #...Russians, Yanks, Chinese, British, Cambodians etc. AND......ISRAELIS, so can we please all move on now and after seventy long years, drop the 6 million holocaust story and look forward instead of always looking back?

Well, I'm gonna.

As I said, love and peace, people...

Let's hope we DON'T repeat this dark period in our history.

Adolf Springer,

I responded to the information you posted the way I have to Holocaust denial information I have seen posted elsewhere. I'm sorry if I misinterpreted your intent.

I ironically I just came across the ADL page on a Google search and linked to it. I'm not American and did I realize who they were until you pointed it out.

I hadn't planned on going deeply into the mechanics of the Holocaust tonight. Other thigs happening here right now.

But it should be pointed out that there was already a substantial Jewish immigration to the Sinai region under the Ottoman Empire that supplemented the Jewish community in Jerusalem. It was in the early 20s that the petition to Britain who had assumed control of the region after WWI, gained momentum. Well before National Socialism took hold of Germany.

I don't know if you're aware of Haj Amin al Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem. Yasser Arafat's uncle and claimed source of inspiration, he spent a good portion of WWII in Berlin acting as a highly paid radio spokesman for Jewish extermination, and advocate of a customized genocide of Jews in Middle East. His plans for Nazi style concentration and death camps were only aborted as resources and manpower dried up in the last days of the European War.

I bring it up in part to balance the one-sided arguments too often presented. I consider the standard argument of the State of Israel being created primarily as a response to what happened in WWII. Many new countries were carved out of the British mandates and there is much history and politics behind the final decisions.

Ironic in all this I've always had an inordinate respect for German people and their culture. Few realize Jews historically received better treatment and were integrated in German-Austrian society better and more beneficially than in the rest of Europe. Perhaps the basis for cause and effect in itself.

More another time.


Mike



[edit on 6-12-2009 by mmiichael]

Adolf Springer,

Ironic in all this I've always had an inordinate respect for German people and their culture. Few realize Jews historically received better treatment and were integrated in German-Austrian society better and more beneficially than in the rest of Europe. Perhaps the basis for cause and effect in itself.

More another time.


Mike



[edit on 6-12-2009 by mmiichael]

AH SOOO MM
You admit to seeing the reality of history.
Discussion from this point foward could prove productive for ALL.

reply to post by mmiichael


Mike,
No offfence taken and respect to you for your level headed reply. ATS needs more of that at times
.
This 'truth' regarding this incredibly touchy subject, has more angles imaginable and unfortunately, has too long been immersed in the dark, murky waters of ulterior motive and hidden agenda for us to realistically hope for clarity regarding unanswered questions including the Holocaust and 'whether or not, Hitler in fact survived?'. George Green, once a NWO disciple, investment banker, but friend, fellow schemer and associate of the banking elitists (the same group who financed the Nazi's), has no doubt whatsoever that Hitler was smuggled out and lived the rest of his life in South America along with many other high ranking officials.

I grew up as a blind and impassioned guardian of the '6 Million' holocaust 'truth', I recall how I would ridicule and sometimes physically fight, those 'right wing extremists' who dared to deny the 'undeniable' truth. Going to the sites however, looking at the photos, documents, the timescale, the ovens, and comparing them to similar sites visited in Cambodia, left huge gaps (and questions) in the official story.

I KNOW the German authorities. They document EVERYTHING (and at least twice). It is improbable beyond words known to the English language, that they would not document mass killings of prisoners under their control. It is just not plausible that (let's say, for arguments sake) 2 million prisoners are sent to a variety of Nazi camps and that their entry (and exit) are not meticulously noted and recorded. In fact, please name me ONE country in the developed world where their prisoners are not carefully watched and processed? Is not the job title of prison officers a 'GUARD'? What type of guard doesn't count who, and how many they have? Next what about body disposal? it takes a long time to burn bones and teeth, and up to 8 million alleged bodies would leave a mountain somewhere... even with a million and a half murders at Auschwitz in the two years (Nov '42-Nov '44), where are/were the missing ovens needed to do that size (+/- , 100 bodies an hour at 24/7) of job? I could go on and on pointing to similar discrepancies but I'm sure you get the point. Something unspeakable happened, agreed. What exactly happened is another story.

In Cambodia, as one example, there is a small field just outside Phnom Penh where they executed a 'mere' 16,500 civilians (Cambodia lost in excess of 2 million in 4 short years... Incidentally under the US funded and supported Khmer Rouge), 30 years later, the field is crammed with bone and clothing fragments as well as those pesky teeth. Just like the gypsies and Russian POW's at Auschwitz, every single one of those prisoners was documented and photographed when they arrived at the notorious S-21 Tuol Sleng prison and also when they were dispatched for execution. That is how prisons work...the world over.

Must dash.

Keep it real.

Peace.



[edit on 7-12-2009 by Adolf Springer]

Originally posted by Adolf Springer

Adolf,

And thank you for your unusually reasonable and heartfelt follow up to my reply. Appreciated greatly in this environment.

Too painful and time consuming to do more than summarize a few points, I will state with no uncertainty the scale of targeted Jewish genocide is not inflated or exaggerated. Much attention is put on the Concentration Camps. But anyone studying the entire program know they were a component not the sole means of extermination used by the Nazis.

Often forgotten are the mass killings of Jews in overrun countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary - where townspeople were given one bullet for each identified Jew in the area to be applied to the head in aid of efficiency. Mass public murders and huge graves were dug. Some have been subsequently dug up, many just coming to light in the past few years.

Eyewitness testimony or family passed on stories are remaining testaments to these undocumented atrocities. I've seen estimated this program or similar ones account for the murder of at the very least a million Jews.

I had members of my extended family murdered in Eastern Europe in the 1940-44 period. Grew up with an uncle who had a number tattooed on his forearm.

Too sickened to do the in-depth research other have, but have been told about and had access to vast amount of documentation on the Holocaust.
It happened, the numbers and circumstances are not exaggerated or inflated. I am appalled and disgusted so many feel compelled to disprove and discredit a terrible chapter in history from which we learn so much about human nature and what people collectively are capable of.

Thanks for listening and sharing your insights.

Mike

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Adolf Springer

Adolf,

And thank you for your unusually reasonable and heartfelt follow up to my reply. Appreciated greatly in this environment.

Too painful and time consuming to do more than summarize a few points, I will state with no uncertainty the scale of targeted Jewish genocide is not inflated or exaggerated. Much attention is put on the Concentration Camps. But anyone studying the entire program know they were a component not the sole means of extermination used by the Nazis.

Often forgotten are the mass killings of Jews in overrun countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary - where townspeople were given one bullet for each identified Jew in the area to be applied to the head in aid of efficiency. Mass public murders and huge graves were dug. Some have been subsequently dug up, many just coming to light in the past few years.

Eyewitness testimony or family passed on stories are remaining testaments to these undocumented atrocities. I've seen estimated this program or similar ones account for the murder of at the very least a million Jews.

I had members of my extended family murdered in Eastern Europe in the 1940-44 period. Grew up with an uncle who had a number tattooed on his forearm.

Too sickened to do the in-depth research other have, but have been told about and had access to vast amount of documentation on the Holocaust.
It happened, the numbers and circumstances are not exaggerated or inflated. I am appalled and disgusted so many feel compelled to disprove and discredit a terrible chapter in history from which we learn so much about human nature and what people collectively are capable of.

Thanks for listening and sharing your insights.

Mike

i'm SO sorry this has affected you personally, much love to you, but i do wonder ... was it really six million? i'm more of the mind it was 1-2 million ... still far too many, of course, but it's hardly a number so high as say, 30% of the world's Jewish population. i totally believe there was a Jewish Holocaust, but millions of people of other ethnic groups also died in WW2.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

i'm SO sorry this has affected you personally, much love to you, but i do wonder ... was it really six million? i'm more of the mind it was 1-2 million ... still far too many, of course, but it's hardly a number so high as say, 30% of the world's Jewish population. i totally believe there was a Jewish Holocaust, but millions of people of other ethnic groups also died in WW2.

Over the last half a century thousands of serious scholars and investigators in over a dozen countries have examined records, documentation, statements, confessions. At least 6 Million Jews died as a direct effect of the German extermination program. Period.

A million aging people in Eastern Europe can still bear testimony. New mass graves are being discovered every year.

The fact that political dissidents, gypsies, Communists, also died as a result of Nazi internment and extermination campaigns does not change the number. The recalculations of racist authors and organizations, their websites and videos, does not change what happened.

Unless you can provide substantial documented evidence that significantly counters or even brings into question what has been proven beyond question, my assumption is you're just quoting some White Supremacist or Jew-hating source.


M

reply to post by Donnie Darko

Better not question *any* official history, or our Canadian journalist friend mmmmichael will label you a White Supremacist, Jew-hating, holocaust denier.

Oh, and don't mention the Dancing Israelis arrested on 9/11 either. That also sets him off.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
i mean, most Jews around today look pretty Middle Eastern, but Anne Frank looked more Turkish or something.

Where do you think the Jews originated? Ever hear of the Khazars?

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Better not question *any* official history, or our Canadian journalist friend mmmmichael will label you a White Supremacist, Jew-hating, holocaust denier.

Oh, and don't mention the Dancing Israelis arrested on 9/11 either. That also sets him off.

Dancing Israelis were arrested and released, just as hundreds of recently arrived Muslims, foreigners, and reportedly suspicious people were in the wake of 9/11. Almost everyone due to overreaction of authoritise, unfounded suspicion, false reports.

This is now documented as is the lawsuit launched by the Dancing Israelis against the police for unlawful confinement.

Where is a document, a shred of evidence those Israelis did anything illegal beyond immigration terms violation?

As the White Supremacists quietly hijack the ailing 9/11 Truth Movement much is made of this incident. But in 8 years nothing even remotely resembling substantiation has emerged despite the huffing and puffing efforts to push forward "Mossad did 9/11" stories.

Originally posted by mmiichael


Often forgotten are the mass killings of Jews in overrun countries like Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Hungary - where townspeople were given one bullet for each identified Jew in the area to be applied to the head in aid of efficiency. Mass public murders and huge graves were dug. Some have been subsequently dug up, many just coming to light in the past few years.

Not to make light the killings of Jews, Gypsies, Jehovah's witnesses, et al, by Nazis.........
How many of the mass grave sites were by German Nazis ALONE, given the lack of freedom of the press in COMMUNIST East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Hungary??
www.country-data.com...

Hungary's postwar political order began to take shape even before Germany's surrender. In October 1944, Britain's Prime Minister Winston Churchill and Foreign Minister Anthony Eden agreed with Stalin that after the war the Soviet Union would enjoy a 75 percent to 80 percent influence in Hungary, Bulgaria, and Romania, while the British would have a 20 percent to 25 percent share. On December 22, 1944, a provisional government emerged in Debrecen that was made up of the Provisional National Assembly, in which communist representatives outnumbered those of the other "antifascist" parties, and a cabinet, whose members included a general and two other military officers of the old regime, two communists, two Social Democrats, two members of the Independent Smallholders' Party, one member of the National Peasant Party, and one unaffiliated member. The provisional government concluded an armistice with the Soviet Union on January 20, 1945, while fighting still raged in the western part of the country. The armistice established the Allied Control Commission, with Soviet, American, and British representatives, which held complete sovereignty over the country. The commission's chairman, Marshal Kliment Voroshilov, a member of Stalin's inner circle, exercised absolute control.

www.washingtonpost.com...

There is little public awareness of the large-scale atrocities, killings and human rights violations that occurred in communist states, especially compared with awareness of the Holocaust and Nazism (which led to to far fewer deaths). The number of documentaries, feature films or television programs about communist societies is minuscule compared with those on Nazi Germany and/or the Holocaust, and few universities offer courses on the remaining or former communist states. For most Americans, communism and its various incarnations remained an abstraction.

Oh and this guy isn't some old Hungarian farmer ruminating on the 'old days'........

Paul Hollander is a professor emeritus of sociology at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst and an associate of Harvard's Davis Center of Russian and Eurasian Studies. His paper "Reflections on Communism 20 Years after the Fall of the Berlin Wall" is being published by the Cato Institute today.

It isn't as simple as it seems and anti-holocaust denial laws DO MUCH disservice to getting at the truth!!!!



[edit on 7-12-2009 by Clearskies]

[edit on 7-12-2009 by Clearskies]

Mike, I probably haven't looked at the evidence as much as you have. However, you can't rely on censuses of the Jewish population because it's debatable who's a Jew and who isn't.

I believe millions of people died in the Holocaust, period. That includes a great number of Jews. Only a racist would question that it happened at all.

Same with 9/11. Only a fool would think nobody died in 9/11, or that the planes were holograms!

But just as I don't buy the "evil Muslims with boxcutters killed the poor Americans because they hate our freedom, and we must go over there and get revenge and protect our liberty" line the White House has been feeding us the past 8 years, I don't think the Holocaust is as simple as one evil man's bigotry against an innocent race.

Did Hitler hate and kill Jews? Of course he did, but that doesn't tell the entire story.

Originally posted by mmiichael
Where is a document, a shred of evidence those Israelis did anything illegal beyond immigration terms violation?

All you require is a "shred of evidence?" No prob -- there's a LOT more than that. Why isn't the Bergen County Record (New Jersey) or Israel National News good enough for you?



How many times do I have to do your research for you?

reply to post by GoldenFleece


Wait, so do you think that Israelis are responsible for 9/11? Are you pinning that on all the Jews in the world?

Goodness gracious.

I've stated my theory though - the REAL purpose of the Holocaust, imo, was to purify the Jewish gene pool.

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
reply to post by GoldenFleece

 

Wait, so do you think that Israelis are responsible for 9/11? Are you pinning that on all the Jews in the world?

Goodness gracious.

I don't think they were. Maybe the Mossad had a hand, but definitely not any Jewish authority.

I think Muslim extremists were used to carry out the attacks BY the CIA, and that they had no connection at all to Bin Laden. These were just some thugs the CIA recruited basically imo.