Gays 'will never go to heaven' , page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 16 times


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 08:04 PM by rusethorcain
reply to post by tezzajw


OK great so why would we discriminate against them any more if God has it all under control? You suddenly sanctimonious religious fanatics think God needs help? I seriously doubt it.
We are supposed to love even our enemies. Don't you think this would even include those individuals who prefer same sex partners? You are forbidden from even discussing such private sexual matters so how is it you Christians know the bedroom arrangements of every home, to make your judgments in the first place? These are not our enemy at all. Save your vengeance for the truly evil. We will need everyone, gay and straight alike for this fight.


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 08:08 PM by snusfanatic
reply to post by tezzajw


seriously guys? that's his religious belief. he probably also believes muslim and athiests won't go to heaven either. its just a religious belief. i think the big story here is that he says that his belief about who goes to heaven does not justify discrimination here on earth. i don't share all his views but he gets it right where i'm concerned. i applaud this man.

why do we have to concern ourselves with this man's feelings about the afterlife when he's advocating tolerance here on earth? jeez. lets be a little more tolerant.

edit: more

[edit on 2-12-2009 by snusfanatic]



reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 08:13 PM by Mr Poopra
Why is this such a big deal? Is this some sort of "news"? This has been around since the Old Testament. God seems to be pretty clear on the subject...

Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

According to the Bible, what he said is true. If you aren't Christian, then don't worry about it. I could care less what all the homos and transexuals in the world do with each other. Has no effect whatsoever on my life. I'm not going to tell you to stop being gay, so in return please stop trying to convince me to accept your lifestyle and think it's "normal" and "ok". Gays have the highest infidelity, suicide, std, and depression rates per capita of any recorded group. I think that says something.


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 08:20 PM by troubleshooter
reply to post by tezzajw

This is how it works...

Pretty much everyone on this forum will be dead within fifty years...
...but anyone whose spirit is united to 'the Spirit' will live on as a consequence of believing the Gospel...
...while everyone else is basically 'road kill'.

The 'real-time' consequence of being united to the Spirit...
...is that there will be progressive behaviour modification...
...self-focus will die away and other people will become your concern...
...a self-indulgent person who was a fornicator, idolater, adulterer, effeminate, thief, covetous, drunkard, reviler or an extortioner will by virtue of this new spiritual relationship cease to be such a person...
...because they will have become focused away from themselves to the needs of 'the other'.

This should never be delivered as a condemnation but as a promise...
...and that unity with the Spirit will have certain consequences...
...and you only have your 'self' to loose (which you are going to loose anyway).



[edit on 2/12/09 by troubleshooter]


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 08:27 PM by snusfanatic
reply to post by Laurauk


I still don't get it. I don't believe Gays will go to hell for being gay either. But seriously? Do you want him to rewrite the bible for you? Do you want a great institution like the catholic church to just throw everything out and start over based on how we feel about things?

The guy says that his religious beliefs about the next life don't justify discrimination here on earth.

I guess a tolerant priest who balances teachings about decisions made by God and how human beings should treat echother here on earth is just another pedophile.

Its disgusting how much hate this guy is getting.


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 08:28 PM by Fromabove
From the Holy Bible - Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.



From the Holy Bible - Romans 1:24 - 32

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.



God considers homosexuality to be sin, and those that love to sin do not get to go to heaven. This is true if you're an adulterer, fornicator, thief, murderer, and unbeliever. Those of you who are upset because the Cardinal stated something based in scripture have no reason to be upset at him, your war is with God Himself.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Fromabove]


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 08:59 PM by Laurauk
reply to post by snusfanatic


It is the fact that he has stated this, while the Catholic Church Protect Pedophiles, now do not tell me they do not. The numerous cases of abuses dealt out by Priests over the years have been documented. Which the Catholic Church tried to brush under the carpet.

This is what I meant by my comments. Oh and the Bible has already be rewritten, numerous times, over the years, so I want to know what you meant by that comment, if you can clear this up for me I would appreciate it.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by Laurauk]


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 09:09 PM by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by Mr Poopra
I'm so tired of non-Christians trying to change OUR rule book to suit them. It is what it is. This "happy go lucky, anything goes, i'm ok the way i am and so are you don't worry everyone is going to Heaven" crap is why we have this level of moral decay in this country.


And Im so tired of christians thinking they are more higher and mighty then anyone else, wether it be Atheist, Muslim, Buddhist or any other religion. As I said, BS like this belongs in church where you christians can share your ignorant views, not in public. And it is discrimination, here's a definition

Definition:

1. treating people differently through prejudice: unfair treatment of one person or group, usually because of prejudice about race, ethnicity, age, religion, or gender


2. ability to notice and value quality: the ability to appreciate good quality or taste


3. awareness of subtle differentiation: the ability to notice subtle differences

Pay attention to definition number 3.....obviously he is concerned that people dont have the same belief as him, speaking out against them and speculating that these people (regardless of religion) arent "good" enough to get into heaven, is a form of discrimination.

And to your other comments, I bet you wouldnt let any openly gay person into your church, I also reckon you dont know any gay people and have never sat down and talked with the, and you also probably believe that being homosexual is a choice, not something that one has no control over....am I correct?


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 09:21 PM by IamLael
reply to post by December_Rain


Wow, pretty strong words. I hope you're not held to them later.


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 09:25 PM by Fromabove
Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by Mr Poopra
I'm so tired of non-Christians trying to change OUR rule book to suit them. It is what it is. This "happy go lucky, anything goes, i'm ok the way i am and so are you don't worry everyone is going to Heaven" crap is why we have this level of moral decay in this country.


And Im so tired of christians thinking they are more higher and mighty then anyone else, wether it be Atheist, Muslim, Buddhist or any other religion. As I said, BS like this belongs in church where you christians can share your ignorant views, not in public. And it is discrimination, here's a definition

Definition:

1. treating people differently through prejudice: unfair treatment of one person or group, usually because of prejudice about race, ethnicity, age, religion, or gender


2. ability to notice and value quality: the ability to appreciate good quality or taste


3. awareness of subtle differentiation: the ability to notice subtle differences

Pay attention to definition number 3.....obviously he is concerned that people dont have the same belief as him, speaking out against them and speculating that these people (regardless of religion) arent "good" enough to get into heaven, is a form of discrimination.

And to your other comments, I bet you wouldnt let any openly gay person into your church, I also reckon you dont know any gay people and have never sat down and talked with the, and you also probably believe that being homosexual is a choice, not something that one has no control over....am I correct?


Discrimination is not a bad word, it only means that you discern between this and that, and that you like this one and maybe not so much that one. Everyone does this even you are doing exactly what you claim the Christians are doing, there is no difference.

In the town where I live are many homosexuals. I've known homosexuals, worked beside homosexuals, and even had homosexual friends. All of them knew my views on homosexuality and none of them ever despised for it. The reason is because I always treat others like I want them to treat me, it's as simple as that. As for discrimination, it's only when you attempt to deprive another person of basic human respect and personal rights that it becomes bad. And there are laws to protect people from such actions, but a law protecting sexual desire is not one of them.


reply posted on 2-12-2009 @ 09:30 PM by snusfanatic
reply to post by Laurauk


I don't doubt the catholic church has protected pedophiles. And sure, the bible has been translated and modified. But if the current standing of a religious organization like the catholic church is that gays will not be allowed to enter into their version of heaven, the members of that church shouldn't have to change their belief because it offends us.

lots of things about christianity (and other religions) is going to offend people. I don't think buddhists and good hearted athiests will be denied access to heaven for their beliefs, yet the catholic church teaches these things as well. That doesn't mean we should spew hatred at them or expect them to conform their ideas about who enters heaven.

This is an official for the catholic church not some fuzzy new age organization that can just open-source their beliefs and teachings for any non-catholic to edit.

And referencing pedophiles doesn't make any of this any different. Its a red herring. So what? They messed up with the pedophiles. Does that make all of their teachings illegitimate or just the ones you and I would already disagree with (like gays not being allowed in heaven).

This man believes what his church teaches. Gays, athiests, muslims, heretics, blasphemers, transgendered people won't go to heaven according to him. But, again, so what?

The man is also advocating non-discrimination here on earth. Too me, that's the story. As plenty of posters have already said, there's plenty in the christian bible that could be used to classify homosexuality as a sin. If he believes this, I don't see a harm and I don't see a vile intolerant person. Because he's also saying those same passages shouldn't be used to disadvantage those people in the here and now.

Basically if you don't buy into the catholic church, who cares what he thinks about heaven? If you buy into gay equality you should be applauding this man. Why? Because his faith teaches him something is wrong and frowned upon by God, yet he preaches we should treat them as equals during their time on earth.

edit:

[edit on 2-12-2009 by snusfanatic]
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