Atheists to protect ATS - Fight the Fundies!, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 33 times

Topic started on 1-12-2009 @ 07:26 PM by Parallex

I am issuing a call to arms.

ATS is under siege, and is rapidly losing the battle against religious suppression.

Bill Mahers' call to arms for Atheists - FIGHT THE FUNDIES!

I have been a member of ATS for a while now. I have been keeping a close eye on what I consider to be the enemies of truth, information flow, and clear - empirical analysis.

One of the most implacable enemies of the core-principles of ATS is that of religion. In the case of ATS, the biggest threat comes from fundamentalist Christians, and even their more moderate 'brethren'. By brethren I mean fellow cultists.

In recent times I have seen more and more fundamentalists appearing on the site, swamping the boards with pointless scripture, forcing their unscientific and faith-based opinions upon everyone else. The worst aspect of their activities involves the empirical, rational debate of subjects. Too often, I see excellent threads and subjects derailed - normally by a fundamentalist (fundie) Christian declaring that the end is nigh, and quoting scripture. Worse still, these same fundie's often stonewall subjects by saying 'it is God's will', or 'Perhaps it was just a miracle?'.

These pitiful people have NO interest in the 'real' truth of any subject. They have no interest in getting to the heart of a conspiracy - in its' 'real' situation. They must always discuss things 'in light' of their religious conviction. They make statements and claims, (as truth) about subjects, which their religious conviction skews and distorts the subject matter at hand.

Religion, and particularly on ATS - Christianity, is an enemy of truth.

Is it a conspiracy?
Are religious nutters trying to convert us all?
Are they too often trying to suppress excellent 'Religion-Critical' topics by starring and flagging (in massive quantities) pro-Christianity topics that just happen to appear when Atheist topics are doing well?

Discuss.

Also, possible solutions - please discuss this as well.

(My view - Give OP's the opportunity to declare a thread 'religion-free zones' - moderators would be required to remove any post propounding religious conviction of any type - this would also help remove religious idiot trolls.)

For those who enjoy Mr Dawkins' take on things, this video, (with annoying music) is an excellent excerpt of true, clear thinking.

Richard Dawkins' tells it like it is - ATHEISTS UNITE!

Without Religious Conviction, Demanding No Undue Privilege,

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:33 PM by onlylonely

funny you should post this. I am pagan but am shocked that thread owner in this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

was banned and my source says without warning or reason. This appears to be because it questioned faith. When trying to question it my post was removed. As an open minded pagan I believe ATS is without doubt under seige. It might be time to move on. please u2u me your email address so I can be in touch after you get banned from this thread.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:39 PM by LifENcircleS

Wow you are trying to create a group of people organized to fight against something...Oh wait that's exactly what religion is...A group of people organized to fight evil. Good luck with your new religion

What you are asking "call to arms" is no better than any of the other religions...

LifENcircleS

[edit on 12/1/2009 by LifENcircleS]

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:40 PM by concernedcitizan

The elimination of all dogmatic verbal systems would be a good thing. I'm a non-believer of the supernatural myself. But I don't even like the term athiest. A dogma of it's own. The religious, like the poor, will always be with us. It's their job to proselytize. Lots of pointless arguing between the two factions here. Everyone has the right to their own opinion. Be prepared for the brickbats. Your picking on the faithful. Notorious for their thin skins. Use the ignore button. That's what it's there for.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:45 PM by Anamnesis

Originally posted by Parallex
(My view - Give OP's the opportunity to declare a thread 'religion-free zones' - moderators would be required to remove any post propounding religious conviction of any type - this would also help remove religious idiot trolls.)

You lost me here. Reeks of censorship and oppression. There's an old saying. "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."

~peace

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:45 PM by Parallex

Thanks for the interest folks.

I have to acknowledge why many folks - particularly Christians - would see Atheism as a religion. They see everything in a theistic point of view, any belief - even a secular one like Atheism - would fall into their religious 'groove'.

May I make it clear as well - there is no RECRUITING going on in this thread - the call to arms is a figurative term.

I believe in engaging with religious people. That way we can help them wake up and smell reality. (And stop vulnerable people from being indoctrinated by them.)

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:49 PM by Parallex

reply to post by Anamnesis

Nope, not censorship or suppression - more a defence against both of them. Declaring a thread a religious-free zone would encourage empirical, and rational debate and contributions.

This would allow the FACTS and GENUINE THEORIES in any subjective matter to come to the surface.

The main problem is the 'wash-through' effect that fundies are using to drown secular / atheist threads with 'their' threads. They effectively spam flags and stars on threads that are pro-Christianity or religion / mysticism in general.

Religion is irrelevant to ATS subject matter, and as such should be stopped from interfering with the search for the truth.

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:53 PM by lordtyp0

Though I agree with a lot of what was said in principle if nothing else. I do have to make a comment.

The phrasing doesn't help. If anything those kinds of words are just combative. The issue is really this: People with faith do not need or acknowledge evidence. They have faith. Thus you have to discuss it in terms they think in. What you have done with this or WILL cause with this is to cause people to start salivating while sharpening crucifixes.

You cannot have a rational discussion with an enraged person. You will never have one with an enraged fanatic. Calling someone stupid for holding onto a core belief that they and everyone they care about has held since childhood will only cause your words to land of deaf ears and more bad blood.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:55 PM by Anamnesis

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by Anamnesis

Religion is irrelevant to ATS subject matter, and as such should be stopped from interfering with the search for the truth.

Oh by all means... ATS should supress the rights of those whose point of view interferes with the search for the truth. Definitely not censorship, I see what you mean now.....

Edit: I guess I need to point out that the statement above is sarcasm. Supressing the rights of those whose point of view interferes with the search for the truth is the very defintion of censorship!

I thought for sure the little puzzle head dude would denote sarcasm.... noted.

~peace

[edit on 1-12-2009 by Anamnesis]

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:57 PM by Parallex

reply to post by lordtyp0

Very interesting point. I have to say I had considered that viewpoint, and felt that 'being nice' to the fundies wasn't necessary. As the title of the thread suggests, this is more about rallying the atheists on the board to defend empirical, and rational debate.

I'd also be interested in discussion about the conspiracy I have suggested. The way in which fundies seem to 'drown' threads they don't like. Like piranhas in a feeding frenzy.

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 07:59 PM by Parallex

Originally posted by Anamnesis

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by Anamnesis

Religion is irrelevant to ATS subject matter, and as such should be stopped from interfering with the search for the truth.

Oh by all means... ATS should supress the rights of those whose point of view interferes with the search for the truth. Definitely not censorship, I see what you mean now.....

Hehe, nicely turned around. I thank you.

Is it not the case that ATS depends on empirical and rational debate to uncover the truth behind conspiracies and unexplained phenomena?

What is rational or empirical about religion? Nothing.

Therefore, the two are mutually exclusive.

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:02 PM by ZombieOctopus

I don't think we need religion free zones... because then we'd only have the contactees to amuse us.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:05 PM by LightFantastic

reply to post by Parallex

I have noticed similar too and it can appear to be organised. I have also noticed some members posting on alternate forums with the same usernames as ATS .

I think the Christian Creationist movement has made many Christians more vocal in their beliefs and willing to attack science with their pseudoscience. How many times have you seen a Muslim doing the same on here?

Look at all the "Christian" threats and hate put on the likes of P. Z. Myers and the CFSM. What happened to their values?

A "No religion allowed" flag for threads is a good solution. In fairness there should also be a "No Science allowed" flag.

I await the standard "Evolution is a myth ", "science is a religion etc etc" posts to appear in this thread and the inevitable responses going beyond 500 posts...

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:05 PM by Parallex

reply to post by ZombieOctopus

What can I say apart from - "Have mercy on the poor fundies, for they know not what they do!"

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:05 PM by Kaytagg

Originally posted by Parallex
My view - Give OP's the opportunity to declare a thread 'religion-free zones' - moderators would be required to remove any post propounding religious conviction of any type - this would also help remove religious idiot trolls.

I love that idea. Religion doesn't belong on a conspiracy site, unless the religion is the topic of the conspiracy..

But if you want to talk about, for instance, fluoride in the water, I think I speak for everyone when I say spare us the "JOHN 3:16! The end is nigh!" stuff.

That kind of stuff basically drove me away from this site, and this is my second post in quite a long while of sparse posts. In the last 3 months, I think I've visited ATS about 5 times. I'm jut not finding useful or insightful things here anymore -- it's all political bickering, religious nonsense (and I stress the word nonsense), FED this NWO that, youtube videos of lights in the sky, etc.

I somehow remember this place being better.. Maybe I'm just remembering it differently because it was all knew to me back then.

But, eh, yea.. I agree with you about the religious stuff. People who do that need to keep it to themselves, as it has no bearing on 99% of conspiracy topics.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:07 PM by Parallex

reply to post by LightFantastic

Excellent point, a 'no rational, scientific input' flag is a damned good idea. That would allow these folks to do their thing, where we don't have to put up with it.

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:09 PM by LifENcircleS

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by ZombieOctopus

What can I say apart from - "Have mercy on the poor fundies, for they know not what they do!"

The Para.

I hope you like the heat because it's hot where your headed... to quote you "

"

LifENcircleS

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:09 PM by Parallex

reply to post by Kaytagg

Thanks for your input - very clearly put.

If the powers that be take notice of your level headed position about religious input 'driving people away', it may encourage them to put something in place to control this scourge.

The Para.

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:09 PM by OldThinker

reply to post by Parallex

Wow Parallex,

You sure talk confidently...

If you are SOOOOO against folks of faith, how come OT hasn't ever heard of you....

I can't recall you ever responding to one of my threads...I certainly could be wrong, you may have a post or two in response to me, but I don't remember...please research and enlighten the ole guy ok?

btw, to pick on FUNDIES in really cowardly....

Why don't you take on some balanced people of faith?

OT only wonders why, I mean WHY would someone start a thread like this? You must have an ax to grind...my only advice, al tho you probably won't listen...for a decade or so, is...........

Put a lil time, on that PERSPECTIVE of yours...and things MIGHT change!

T

PS: Tell RD OT is still prayin' for him!

reply posted on 1-12-2009 @ 08:10 PM by lordtyp0

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by lordtyp0

Very interesting point. I have to say I had considered that viewpoint, and felt that 'being nice' to the fundies wasn't necessary. As the title of the thread suggests, this is more about rallying the atheists on the board to defend empirical, and rational debate.

I'd also be interested in discussion about the conspiracy I have suggested. The way in which fundies seem to 'drown' threads they don't like. Like piranhas in a feeding frenzy.

The Para.

Well here is a few things to consider on it: Like Penn Gillete(sp?) said: A religious person must truly hate you if they do not try and convert you. Meaning if they believe that you will go to hell, and they can help-if they do not try to show you the errors of your ways they think you are an evil thing that deserves torture.

I do not think it is a conspiracy so much as a flock. I have stared and flagged atheist threads before simply because they are atheist threads and I agreed with some point. I have starred and flagged religious posts because they had an interesting point as well.

Like minded want to promote the ideas that reinforce their beliefs. To call that a conspiracy implies that there is someone orchestrating it. Though there are certainly 'grass-roots' efforts on both sides to skew things like internet polls.. This hardly constitutes a conspiracy so much as basic human nature.

Sort of a "If it agrees with me, it proves I am right" thing. Everyone falls prey to that from time to time.

The objective should really be getting people to question. To question everything. The act of questioning leads to understanding. Discussions with religious people seem to go much better using the Socratic Method (and Reducto Ad Absurdum). It should never be about attacking beliefs but instead challenging them.

And I do mean all beliefs.

Skimming over this I can see how people could read me somehow endorsing say: Intelligent Design... Don't get me wrong. I am a Skeptic at heart. I like to read everything about a topic. If the evidence says there is merit, I consider it having merit. ID in it's current form is not science. It should not be taught in science. It should be taught in... maybe a philosophy class.

I do think however that a persons beliefs show who they are. It is an opportune to learn about yourself as well. To think on why you disagree is oft times more informative than thinking about why you agree instead.

Basically: Challenge all beliefs. But don't attack the believer. To many their beliefs are the summation of their life. If you attack and crack that belief by force, you essentially damage their sense of identity. By challenging with compassion-you help them grow and learn as a human being. Even if it is slow going.

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