Atheists to protect ATS - Fight the Fundies!

reply to post by Mush


I'm sorry you had to go through that. Although, I suppose everything is a learning experience and one can always take something beneficial away from any scenario.

I agree with you that both sides really need to get down from that wall of arrogance. The "I'm right" "No, I'm right" argument can only last for so long before someone decides that turning the other cheek isn't an appropriate reaction.

"There are no answers that will satisfy those genuinely questioning our faith....That is not because they are stubbornly refusing to embrace answers, nor because they do not understand what those answers are, but because our faith, i.e. the Christian religion is ultimately a matter of having faith and not empirical evidence strong enough to convince the sceptical unbeliever. What major factor of the Christian faith does not ultimately rest on faith? Look at the existence of God. It is our consideration that there are evidences for his existence but ultimately we rest our case on faith. Look at the existence of Jesus. It is our consideration that there are evidences for his existence but ultimately we rest our case on faith, especially in a day where mythicists and the like are in abundance along with their books and articles. Look at the inspiration of the Bible. It is our consideration that there are evidences for that inspiration but ultimately we rest our case on faith. Look at the creation of the universe and life on earth. It is our consideration that there are evidences for that work of initial creation but ultimately we rest our case on faith. So I could go on but I think the point is made. That upon which Christianity rests is ultimately faith. That is God's way, but that way is antithetical to the way of the unbelieving sceptic" (Matthew Bell, Xtianity, 2/26/01, "Some Dudes Learn the Hard Way.")

Religion is nothing more than an interpretation of original teachings. It's taught to people who do not personally have God in their lives. Some religion is on target..other's are not.

If you think that religion is the only portal to God, then you are nothing but a follower. Nothing wrong with that.

If you think that because of your dislike for religion you are correct in denying a God, then you got some more thinking to do. Nothing wrong with that so far..

If the only reason you don't believe in a God is because you despise the thought of a higher power and the humans who fail to represent him, you are among many people who feel the same. Nothing wrong with that either.



Don't worry about. Stop wasting so much energy fighting sides. The fact is this. Believers and non believers ALL go through the same process. The speed and magnitude of the process all depends on how much internal guilt, anger and sadness you have inside yourself.


But don't worry, most likely most of you nonbelievers will be able to straighten out the tab and sail into the light.

Let's just be happy. We're all going through the same wormhole of this dimension together. Let's not waste our time on stupidity, ignorance, anger, sadness, bitterness, fear and separation.

Are we Donkey's or are we Men!?



Besides, let me appeal to your better nature. Wouldn't you like to see something that is more than anything you've ever been taught? Wouldn't you like to witness something that can not be described in the 3rd dimension? Wouldn't you like access to the universe of knowledge that leads ultimately to pure Love which is God?

No? oh well..I tried. Enjoy your search on the internet for the truth of your existence. What a joke...

I would like to add some insight. Even though obvious, it seems to be perpetually overlooked. The handles one chooses, the icons one chooses, the descriptions around the two that one chooses: These all shine light on the character the human being chooses to play on this website. I encourage others to look as well. For instance, things such as fighter or thread killa in descriptions. Or icons that seek vainglory of one's own self image or merely those that try to shine a light on it. I, for instance, chose no icon or avatar, as I am not fond of the concept of IMAGE, as it is often used for deception. I am not judging any specific person's angle on the matter, but I am saying we have our reasons. Perhaps we should be more aware. We can then gain some insight on where the "character" is coming from.

Originally posted by zaiger
reply to post by Mush

 

Pointing your finger at someone else will never make you bigger or better than anything. If anything it makes you smaller as it is an admition that someone can effect you without you being responsible for it to some degree. You cannot fault the church because the bonds that you made with your girlfriend were not strong enough for her or you to convert or strong enough to keep her becoming a "fundamentalist".

I don't desire/need to be bigger/better than anything.

The point I was trying to make is that fundamentalism from either camp is not
necessary. If I could redo the last couple of months, I'd do my best to bring
a modicum of brevity and reason to mellow out the fundamentalism. We
worked for 2 years. We could have worked for 22. The church did not bring
about the end. The fundamentalism brought the end. All the church did was
bring the fundamentalism. Totally unnecessary.

And before you say its the prerogative of the church to instill and indoctrinate
fundamentalism, with the utmost respect I want to refer you back to a part
of my post you did not quote. Most wars have been because of
fundamentalism. If it is a requirement of Christianity to be "fundamentalist"
then you have to throw your commandments to the wind and commit
murder against your fellow man until no-one but you and those who share
your beliefs remain. Actually... this might be in the Old Testament...

reply to post by Parallex

Proponents of religious reasoning are purposefully using the flag and star system (and post-spamming / trolling) to disrupt the dissemination of truth and clarity regarding important ATS subjects. Specifically, they concentrate on anything that challenges or attacks their religious convictions. As the main group of these fundamentalists are Christian, I challenge the Christians here first.

The Christians on this site are constantly issuing the ATS populace with a 'Christian-Tint' on all subjects, and as such distorting truth. To go against this distortion of fact, is to risk the wrath of the Christian Mafia present on this site. (And certain moderators may I add - who don't seem to be able to use their 'non-moderator contribution tool' as often as they should do.)

Forum Gangs are prohibited on ATS if you suspect that is going on click the thread alert and let the mods know.
Saying that christian's abuse the star and flag system is a distortion. PEOPLE tend to star and flag things they like so it is normal for a christian to star and flag a christian topic.
If you want a religion-free zone i suggest you go to a board that does not discuss religion or an atheist forum. If you just want to vent your ideas about religion BTS has a rant page that pretty much allows anything within the T&Cs. If you can't handle a christian's free speech you may be to sensitive for ATS and the internet.

Originally posted by Mush

Originally posted by juzchilln
...this is a broken world. Full of idiotic athiests and silly religious people. Both have no clue of the power one can gain by witnessing God personally.

Have you "witnessed" God personally? In a tangible, measurable fashion?
Or do you witness your deity via your faith? You "believe" it is there to such
a degree that you project its presence onto scientifically explainable secular
phenomena.

this is exactly the kind of thought process i addressed in my last post. Its always got to be tangible. . . with the dogmatic science types. While i generally fall into that category aswell when it comes to religion ive learned to listen instead of try and ask for the empirical data.

Wheres the tangible evidence against a "god"? As far as i know there isn't any. The arguement of show me your evidence will not change anyones mind. It will only widen the rift. There is no evidence to support either belief.

Science has alot of dogmatic beliefs aswell. Newton was the authority, his theories became as a religion, then a fellow named maxwell gave another fellow called . . . uhm what was his name uhh. . . . Einstein (that's it ) the ammo he needed to topple newtononian beliefs, now we all us science types worship at the alter of relativity in a very dogmatic way.

The religious look at us science folks in the same we generally regard them. This is the inherent problem in intolerance. We both insist on evidence from the toher and neither party has any.

Let's just call it a draw and get back to cooperation.

[edit on 2-12-2009 by constantwonder]

reply to post by juzchilln


I hear you, and I think I know exactly where you are coming from. And I am telling myself this as much as you. People have been ruthlessly manipulated by generation after generation of wordsmiths. It becomes essentially something mindless, and it creates a downward spiral effect, like "the fall" of humanity. We must trick the trickster. And we must reclaim language. Language has been perpetually manipulated in order to obfuscate truth, rather than to shine a light on it.

reply to post by Parallex


You said:

The Christians on this site are constantly issuing the ATS populace with a 'Christian-Tint' on all subjects, and as such distorting truth.

ATS is a conspiracy website. With that in mind, if you're looking for the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you're in the wrong place. You cannot blame the Christians for putting a certain type of spin on any subject when there is not 100% valid "truth" available for consideration.

reply to post by zaiger


Zaiger, it appears you have missed the point. I understand why, as a Christian it's not in your nature to understand the secular point of view.

This is not about 'not liking' what Christians say - although I don't - it's about the fact that Christians abuse their religious status to distort fact, and disguise fiction as genuine fact. This is commonplace, and must be stopped.

Christianity, religion in general, both play into the hands of those that wish to control and manipulate humanity for their own ends. Free yourself of slavery - you wont regret it.

The Para.

reply to post by Parallex


Christians who tend to ignore Christ and atheists who tend to ignore HONEST logic, these both perpetuate the mindset of the trickster. But the trickster will dissolve. There are too many aware of the tricks. One by one, the "characters" are falling. They exist hand in hand. On my list now are both "whore" and "beast." These two shall dissolve simultaneously, and those in the grips of these mentalities will be freed.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Parallex

 

You said:

The Christians on this site are constantly issuing the ATS populace with a 'Christian-Tint' on all subjects, and as such distorting truth.

ATS is a conspiracy website. With that in mind, if you're looking for the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you're in the wrong place. You cannot blame the Christians for putting a certain type of spin on any subject when there is not 100% valid "truth" available for consideration.

Excellent, excellent post my worthy Foe.

You're right, ATS only represents the search for the whole truth, the end result is generally unobtainable. But I can blame Christians for putting (as you coined it) 'spin' on things. Spin is generally used in ignorance, to create MORE ignorance - exactly what ATS is against. Politicians and the Mainstream Media use 'spin' to indoctrinate us with whatever they want to indoctrinate us with - it is control.

I don't want SPIN, I want FACT, and logical, secular theories based on methodologies that can be proved and examined.

The Para.

reply to post by Mush

fun⋅da⋅men⋅tal⋅ism 
3. strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles

Yes most wars have been over "fundamentalisim" but not tottaly over religion. WW1&2, viet nam, the civil war, our war for independence, and our current war were not over religion but over our own fundamentalisim that is our strict adherence to our set of basic ideas and principles.

reply to post by Parallex

I understand why, as a Christian it's not in your nature to understand the secular point of view.

Im not a christian nice strawman.

This is not about 'not liking' what Christians say - although I don't - it's about the fact that Christians abuse their religious status to distort fact, and disguise fiction as genuine fact. This is commonplace, and must be stopped.

Then go to another forum or use the ignore button. What is real for you may not be real for someone else. If someone wants to think that the earth is flat and want to say that the earth is flat let them. Are you really that offended that people do not share the same ideas as you?

Christianity, religion in general, both play into the hands of those that wish to control and manipulate humanity for their own ends. Free yourself of slavery - you wont regret it.

Free myself? You are the one saying there should be places where people with religion are not free to post their ideas.

Thread was closed and there will be no religion free zone FAIL

[edit on 2-12-2009 by zaiger]

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by zaiger

 

Zaiger, it appears you have missed the point. I understand why, as a Christian it's not in your nature to understand the secular point of view.

This is not about 'not liking' what Christians say - although I don't - it's about the fact that Christians abuse their religious status to distort fact, and disguise fiction as genuine fact. This is commonplace, and must be stopped.

Christianity, religion in general, both play into the hands of those that wish to control and manipulate humanity for their own ends. Free yourself of slavery - you wont regret it.

The Para.

The thing is that most of the sheep want to be sheparded. Thats why religion has gone from the (in my opinion more pure inner self meditation type) some may say mystic religions that focus on the finding peace and strength within into the perverted mind control of present.

You can't change the mind of the masses. You can only influence them through manipulation. This is not the ideal way to handle things. That is why its not the sheeple that should be "re-educated" but the shepards taht must be.

the masses want to be lead its the same way in any animal population which contain family groups or communities. Its natures way of controlling things. It's inescapable and thats why its pointless to try and change the minds of the religious in one on one debate

Originally posted by Parallex
This is not about 'not liking' what Christians say - although I don't - it's about the fact that Christians abuse their religious status to distort fact, and disguise fiction as genuine fact. This is commonplace, and must be stopped.

This is a discussion board. No one's voice should be "stopped".

I see no purpose to leave this disruptive thread open.

Closed.