New study proves someones "god" is nothing more than one's own image! Religion crumbles...

Originally posted by Level X
The Bible heads have learn to survive in todays jungle they have to earn their "Bible Cred.." like rappers.

Just thawing out a box of chilled Rattle Snakes and dancing around like crazed heathens of God is not good enough now-a-days...

They now seek biblical credibilty from the streets... often using street slang to DRAW IN unsuspecting victims with words like...

God's is in da house!
Fo Jeezy!
Let me hit yah wit Da message of G-dog!
I'm pimpin and Prayin!
Mary Mag... huh... Dat's my girl!
I'm Blingin in da name O God!

[edit on 1-12-2009 by Level X]

The world of comedy and sarcasm was shamed by this post.

Go to YouTube at once and watch at least 5 Bill Hicks videos, 2 George Carlins, 5 Eddie Izzard, and 1 Noel Fielding. That's your penance.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by reasonable

 

So you have chosen, let it be done.

^^^case in point

This one is even speaking like "god" speaks. If I had the power to lock this thread I would lock it on that note. What a fantastic conclusion to prove the OP.

reply to post by reasonable

If they were true "christians" they would be donating said time to charitable causes.

You'd really have to know the individual before making that judgment call, I would think. Maybe they do and today is their day off or maybe they're home sick or have a disability.

That's like me saying if you were a real atheist you'd get out of your computer chair and live life if you thought this time is all you had or you'd get out there and help your fellow man if you thought this world is the only thing worth working for.

But I don't know you or your situation so it would be wise to refrain. There's no reason for personal judgments against other members, especially on a personal level.

[edit on 12/1/2009 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by die_another_day
religion is the only thing that made people believe that there's an invisible man.

fter two years of rapid scientific progress, the U.S. Army is getting closer to mastering man-made "meta-materials" that can bend light around an object, according to one military researcher.

That’s right: flip-of-the-switch invisibility is around the corner. Which means insane, invisible, rampaging scientists, a la Kevin Bacon in Hollow Man (pictured), can’t be far behind.

www.wired.com...

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt

 

Ah but I have looked within myself. I have opened myself up to the possibilities and it is that very opening that has allowed me to dismiss the Christ Metaphor and all scripture based religions as too narrow, reductive and outright insulting to the Universe.

So you are saying that by being opened to possibilities you have closed a possibility because you did not agree with what Christ had to say? What part did you disagree with? Was it the part where he said,"Love your enemies."? Or was it the part where he said,"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."?

Those are two excellent examples of good teachings, but they are not exclusive to scriptural religion. They are common sense and require no subservience to cognitive constructs posing as God.

I sigh because the believer -vs- non-believer debate is always running in the same sorry circles trapped in these semantic language loops that do not allow them to open their minds.

There are many who would disagree about their eye's not being opened by this sorry circles in the semantic loops.

Perhaps, and that is why I will still play these games: because perhaps eyes can indeed be opened.

You say I sound like I know what's going to happen. The fact is that I don't know what is going to happen, but I can rule out a few things that are not going to happen. The scriptural concepts of the end times are patently absurd if taken literally and vague enough to have happened a half dozen times over already if taken metaphorically. The notions of Heaven and Hell are slightly more interesting from a metaphorical standpoint as each "soul" will perceive differently the disembodiment and transcendence to pure energy that accompanies death. Some will perceive it as Hell others as Heaven.

How much studying of scripture have you partaken in? Did you know that some of the earliest churches thought everyone was going to heaven? As we have learned in this life every action has a consequence. Good or Bad.

I've read the bible a couple of times. I have also considered the history of the church and I reject the notion that the bible is the word of God. Once you recognize the Bible as an unreliable source, you can consider the mysteries of the Universe more freely.

As to the benevolent early churches, what happened to those? I have never doubted that the original intent of these religions were good. It is what they have becomed that is a hideous affront to the Universe and an obstacle to humanity's enlightenment.

for one see it for what it is: recycling of energy in a unimaginably vast though ultimately closed system.

There is no proof of that either. So what makes you so sure? Sounds as though your saying that everything is connected. That could be associated with religious beliefs.

I never presented myself as an atheist. I am an agnostic pagan.

For the time being, my trip to this plain of existence is simple enough to understand. I have been made aware of my general purpose and am working to assist in the betterment of the "souls" assigned to me, just as I have met others who are here to guide me.

Okay...So you have souls assigned to you would imply that a higher being would have assigned those souls to you. If their is no higher being's in positions of power, who assigned them to you?

The Universe, which is a cosmic force of such unfathomable complexity, that we must either completely generalize it or acknowledge/contemplate piecemeal through a series of metaphors and pneumonics such as Gods, Goddesses and philosophical models. Just because the limitations of our present mind require the use of these maps, does not make them Reality.

Should things get excessively interesting on the Earthly plain, I will not consider it to be THE end times for such a notion is the pinnacle of silly hubris. I will instead see it as the latest in a neverending cycle of growth opportunities.

For there to be an earthly plain would also imply higher and lower plains. Kind of like heaven and hell. To think that a earth changing global event cannot occur? Well scientists and religion both agree that it could happen. Never ending cycle of growth opportunities? Only for the one's that survive.

Correct their are countless plains of existence, but not like heaven and hell (at least, not for everyone). Sure there are some that will be perceived more pleasurably than others, and those who are programmed to believe in Heaven and Hell will experience something like them, but that will be by their choice. The Universe has no desire to torment anyone regardless of their belief and/or acknowledgement of It.

All of this will be done without having to buy in to the nearly Dadaist notion of a divine carpenter getting nailed to a gigantic piece of irony over 2000 years ago in order to "free" mankind from the "sin" of becoming cognizant of something beyond the weird conditional love of a neurotic skybound father figure.

Your sarcasm speaks for itself.
Definition of sarcasm:

witty language used to convey insults or scorn; "he used sarcasm to upset his opponent"; "irony is wasted on the stupid"; "Satire is a sort of ...
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

So by this reasoning I am now more deeply convinced of God.

So because I am sarcastic towards the weird shaggy dog story mythos of Christianity, you believe more deeply in "God"? Is your concept of God one of vast omnicience and omnipotence or one of neurotic neediness? Sure "He" is so vast he could be all these things, but why would He choose to personify these attributes which his followers claim are so detestable in man?


[edit on 1-12-2009 by Conclusion]

Science has proven that all matter is made of the same energy. Science has also proven that everything is connected. We are connected to each other biologically, to the Earth chemically, and to the rest of the universe atomically. They have pretty much come to the conclusion that the Universe is ONE object. Many people and religions call this ONE object God.

This ONE object was responsible for our existence, and the existence of everything we know. This ONE object is all things, and all things are this ONE object, and that is omnipresence.

The ONE object is all energy combined, and all energy that will ever exist. It is a scientific fact that "energy can not be created or destroyed". This is omnipotence, and immortality.

All knowledge that humans can even fathom is inside of this ONE object, and IS this ONE object, and is created by this ONE object. That is omniscience.

God exists, and you exist in God. All in All is all you are.

[edit on 1-12-2009 by ALLis0NE]

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by reasonable

 

If they were true "christians" they would be donating said time to charitable causes.

You'd really have to know the individual before making that judgment call, I would think. Maybe they do and today is their day off or maybe they're home sick or have a disability.

[edit on 12/1/2009 by AshleyD]

I find that statistically improbable based on this particular forum.. it's just excuses and general hypocrisy. I'll leave it at that..

Originally posted by reasonable

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by reasonable

 

So you have chosen, let it be done.

^^^case in point

This one is even speaking like "god" speaks. If I had the power to lock this thread I would lock it on that note. What a fantastic conclusion to prove the OP.

True, someone completely devoid of the knowledge between irony and sarcasm might, in fact, miss the subtleties of that line and interpret it in such a manner.

I'd be careful where I placed that

reply to post by reasonable


I simply agreed with you making you choice.

So you have a problem with me agreeing that you should be allowed to choose?

Now that is confusion at it's finest at work.

Originally posted by reasonable

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by reasonable

 

If they were true "christians" they would be donating said time to charitable causes.

You'd really have to know the individual before making that judgment call, I would think. Maybe they do and today is their day off or maybe they're home sick or have a disability.

[edit on 12/1/2009 by AshleyD]

I find that statistically improbable based on this particular forum.. it's just excuses and general hypocrisy. I'll leave it at that..

You'll leave it at that because she is right and you know that you are wrong. Your wanting to believe something does not a statistical probability make. Moreover, you declined to reply to the latter part of her argument as to what are you doing with your day.

Originally posted by Conclusion
reply to post by reasonable

 

I simply agreed with you making you choice.

So you have a problem with me agreeing that you should be allowed to choose?

Now that is confusion at it's finest at work.

No. I thought it beyond hilarious in the way you stated it:

"So you have chosen, let it be done. "

That was really good.. Maybe they will bring you in to help write the next version of the bible.

Originally posted by A Fortiori

Originally posted by reasonable

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by reasonable

 

If they were true "christians" they would be donating said time to charitable causes.

You'd really have to know the individual before making that judgment call, I would think. Maybe they do and today is their day off or maybe they're home sick or have a disability.

[edit on 12/1/2009 by AshleyD]

I find that statistically improbable based on this particular forum.. it's just excuses and general hypocrisy. I'll leave it at that..

You'll leave it at that because she is right and you know that you are wrong. Your wanting to believe something does not a statistical probability make. Moreover, you declined to reply to the latter part of her argument as to what are you doing with your day.

Oh I would argue with them for hours if they were not a moderator. I prefer to avoid being banned. What am I doing all day? Right now I'm posting on ATS while tape backups are running. It's either this or watch youtube..

Originally posted by reasonable
I find that statistically improbable based on this particular forum.. it's just excuses and general hypocrisy. I'll leave it at that..

The forum is Conspiracies in Religions.

Read that again, because it isn't "Stick it to religion at all costs" - as you seem to have interpreted it.

And while your OP presents a interesting psychological study that may have had some valid points for discussion in it, your subsequent actions, condescending tone and attempts at ridicule have done very little to foster any intelligent discussion on the subject at all.

So, if you wish to discuss the ACTUAL topic of your OP, then by all means do so.

But if your intention here is to just rip into people because they happen to be religious and not share your point of view, then I suggest you started the thread solely as a trolling exercise.

So, whats it going to be? More ridicule or actual discussion?

Stick to the actual topic of the thread, and leave out the personal stuff please.

Thanks.

reply to post by semperfortis

I hate to break it to you OP, but you are a tool.. A tool of prophecy. You are working for the very God you mock. You were foretold and you are expected and in many ways welcome. Your very protestations and the very hilarious links you provide, all further substantiate the writings in the Bible. (Besides providing a great source of amusement) I for one, thank you for being here. Your presence solidifies and strengths my faith as only proof can. For you are proof.

Needless to say if he didn't do what he does then your prophecy would be false,so you need him to prove your case.
Thank god for all the misery death and wars then.

PISCES : You have been seeking changes in something very important in your life. The new year will ring in the importunity to move forward into a new beginning,it's time to drop that baggage that's been annoying you a man in green could help you leap forward.

Hey reasonable, can I ask you some simple questions? What does it matter to you if people believe or not? How is a persons religious affiliation of any sort any of your business? Why do you spend so much time and effort looking for proof that there is no God? I am not bothered by your quest for the truth, but you seem obsessed in your efforts and in those efforts rejoice in attempting to shatter peoples hopes. You have no definitive proof that God exists or does not exist. In theory if He does exist and is all powerful then he could easily stop us from ever creating a science that could prove He is there. If we did prove He is there it would debase the whole need for faith which is an integral part of spirituality. There is only one way to know for sure, but I dont see anyone from either side of he argument lining up to jump off a bridge to go find out if there is indeed anything there after death. Interesting info you posted, but it still does not prove anything definitive.

reply to post by reasonable


Mod Edit - removed off-topic pointless personal attack

Civlity and decorum are required



It is simple fact that we can only draw on that experience. This doesnt prove anything. All it proves is that we are human, and not GOD

Many intelligent people have tried to disprove GOD and have only succeeded in proving that you CANNOT DISPROVE THE EXISTANCE OF GOD - unless of course you are GOD - thereby creating a paradox.

Ignorance is bliss. People will believe any rubbish under the heading of "science"

In fact what you prove by creating this thread is that you FEAR GOD, as you should. Denial is the first and most common reaction to the prospect. If there is GOD then I am not in control, therefore in order to further empower myself I deny the existence of any source of higher authority such as GOD.

However the planets keep turning, the balance remains. The laws of entropy remain challenged by the life that exists on this planet and elsewhere. These things dont just happen, and maybe one day IF (and thats a BIG IF) someone proves that life can be created, by humans or random interactions - then I will believe there is no GOD.

[edit on 1/12/09 by neformore]

[edit on 1-12-2009 by iulslion]

reply to post by RobertAntonWeishaupt

So because I am sarcastic towards the weird shaggy dog story mythos of Christianity, you believe more deeply in "God"? Is your concept of God one of vast omnicience and omnipotence or one of neurotic neediness? Sure "He" is so vast he could be all these things, but why would He choose to personify these attributes which his followers claim are so detestable in man?

Yes. To make fun of anyone's belief is to try and stir their anger. Only respect towards one and another will be the only means of finding a peaceful ending to any dialogue or war. My concept of God is the realization that I am just a man. As being a man I cannot understand the mind of God. I know the truth when I hear it and how it is said to me. I only know that I have studied Christ's teachings and I can find nothing wrong with what he said. The truth is always simple.

Originally posted by AshleyD
That's like me saying if you were a real atheist you'd get out of your computer chair and live life if you thought this time is all you had or you'd get out there and help your fellow man if you thought this world is the only thing worth working for.
[edit on 12/1/2009 by AshleyD]

Here's a better example. If you were a true Christian, you would advocate abandoning all human laws, closing all courts, and shutting down the prisons. After all, how could any earthly justice compare with an eternity in heaven or hell as a result of your actions during this life?

Moreover, what would be the purpose of hospitals and doctors? If you save a person with an appendicitis, aren't you fighting God's will or altering his plans? Why isn't simple prayer sufficient when a loved one is having a heart attack? God can create a universe but he can't clear a clogged artery?

I respect the need for forum moderators, but don't you think it's hypocritical for a forum moderator to tell someone sitting at their computer that they are wasting their life? If you're trying to discourage what you see as "personal attacks," then making a personal attack doesn't seem like the best way to make your point and set a good example.

However, if you consider all argument on the topic of religion to be a "personal attack," why is it that almost every topic is open to intellectual debate but challenging someone else's religious beliefs in a civil manner is taboo? The moment human beings cease discussion, for any reason, is the moment that our culture begins to stagnate.

Some of the most important discoveries ever made have been made against the will of the obstinate majority. A scientist is not afraid to open his conclusions to the scrutiny of the academic community. If you or anyone else wants to assert that religious beliefs are any more valid than scientific theories grounded in empirical research, the first step is to open those beliefs to real, open, and honest discussion.

Heads up

Debate the post and not the poster. I can't make it much clearer than that.

If you can't post without making it personal, don't post. Take a deep breath, walk away and come back when you are in a better frame of mind.

Thank you for you co-operation with this simple request.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by reasonable
I find that statistically improbable based on this particular forum.. it's just excuses and general hypocrisy. I'll leave it at that..

The forum is Conspiracies in Religions.

Read that again, because it isn't "Stick it to religion at all costs" - as you seem to have interpreted it.

And while your OP presents a interesting psychological study that may have had some valid points for discussion in it, your subsequent actions, condescending tone and attempts at ridicule have done very little to foster any intelligent discussion on the subject at all.

So, if you wish to discuss the ACTUAL topic of your OP, then by all means do so.

But if your intention here is to just rip into people because they happen to be religious and not share your point of view, then I suggest you started the thread solely as a trolling exercise.

So, whats it going to be? More ridicule or actual discussion?

Stick to the actual topic of the thread, and leave out the personal stuff please.

Thanks.

I'd love to discuss the topic but at the moment I am responding to all the attacks against me. Look at the thread stats please: 29 flags +4 more stars and rising. I highly doubt a trolling exercise would produce those numbers. Notice the flags vs. actual 'non-believers' speaking out. More proof that some are still scared to take on religion, but they'll come around.

"The forum is Conspiracies in Religions.
Read that again, because it isn't "Stick it to religion at all costs" - as you seem to have interpreted it."

Wrong.. All of my threads are related to conspiracies in religion, especially this one.

You are showing a lot of bias mod. Maybe you'll ban me? The owners of ATS might not appreciate that since lately I am giving them huge traffic which in turn generates huge revenue. I have one thread approaching 1,000 posts, this one may follow suit. There must be something to it aye?