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New study proves someones "god" is nothing more than one's own image! Religion crumbles...

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posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by rexusdiablos
I really hope this thread isn't shut down because it ruffled the feathers of a few zealots (and no, I'm not inferring that all Christians are zealots).


Some of those zealots have moderating powers. If things don't go their way I expect nothing less the this thread going poof...




posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by rexusdiablos
 


I am not calling you a liar, but I see things in a different light. I saw no presumptuous arrogance in his post. I did not really see any seeking for vainglory, although I could be wrong. After all, it does taint us all from time to time.

I am not really trying to tear down you, but that will be the inevitable result of the WORDS I speak.

Reaction...........reaction..............reaction.......reaction

If some alien species was doing a study on the repeating folly of humanity, and yes I am a member, then this thread just might encourage them to hit the reset button. Just saying.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 

I wasn't disagreeing with you either -- I simply was giving more examples to back your assertion that some religious debate is welcome on ATS, while some types of debate is "trolling".

I think the OP posted the link to that study simply so he could hide behind it in a pseudo-intellectual manner. In reality, he hasn't provided a connection at all between that study and his "Religion Sucks!" rants. I call that manner of posting "thuggery". He could delete his OP and his remaining rants would still have the same meaning.

Like I said before, I'm not a really big "believer" myself -- even though my spirit is willing to believe, I seem to always find a reason not to believe. My attempts at believing in "a god" usually goes beyond organized religions and instead looks at the "bigger picture".



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. "I" am not two halves of a binary computer divided. "I" am "I" Phew. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by reasonable
scienceblogs.com...


Posted on: November 30, 2009 3:30 PM, by Ed Yong

For many religious people, the popular question "What would Jesus do?" is essentially the same as "What would I do?" That's the message from an intriguing and controversial new study by Nicholas Epley from the University of Chicago. Through a combination of surveys, psychological manipulation and brain-scanning, he has found that when this suck cock
own personal beliefs.


It's so simple, yet so brilliant. Looks like Science and Psychology are truly dismantling religion day by day. Science proves it false and psychology proves it's all in these people's heads.


Psychological studies have found that people are always a tad egocentric when considering other people's mindsets. They use their own beliefs as a starting point, which colours their final conclusions. Epley found that the same process happens, and then some, when people try and divine the mind of God. Their opinions on God's attitudes on important social issues closely mirror their own beliefs. If their own attitudes change, so do their perceptions of what God thinks. They even use the same parts of their brain when considering God's will and their own opinions.


^^^My oh my, that's a doosie..


Of course, correlation doesn't imply causation - rather than people imprinting their beliefs onto God, it could be that people were using God's beliefs as a guide to their own. Epley tried to control for that by asking his recruits to talk about their own beliefs first, and then presenting God and the others in a random order. And as better evidence of causality, Epley showed that he could change people's views on God's will by manipulating their own beliefs.


^^^Oh dear.

Well, I'll stop here because the study is so devastating I don't want to keep twisting the knife. I'm not THAT heartless.




posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:49 PM
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Sorry if this has been advanced prior to now. I don't have the time to read all 15 pages of what I'm sure are nothing more than insults being hurled at one another by now before I have to head off to work.

Short and sweet, this article does absolutely nothing to disprove anything.
God, if (s)he exists, is a being that cannot be approached by man. Therefore, all of the people who believe in the idea of a being more powerful than themselves, are going to mold their beliefs about said God to that which they believe about themselves from a philisophical standpoint. Those beliefs about themselves are certainly tied to what they have learned through the religious institutions they grew up in, in many cases. But in the end, regardless of the presence or lack of religious dogma, a person is going to justify their own actions based on how they feel morally about any thing. And once again, since God is beyond approach to a physical man, they are going to have to call upon their own morality to guide them in any situation...

The only thing this article points out is that people don't have direct communication with God. It does absolutely nothing to strike down the idea of God and is a total waste of time.

I swear sometimes the atheists can be every bit as fundamentalist as the most rabid Xter.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:51 PM
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I love the way these "tests" always use the common American as the subject. Sometimes I wonder who has thier nose more in the others business, America, or the rest of the world.

Anyhow, I found this article rather amusing. It is not earth shattering news to find that people will gravitate toward a religion and a "godlike figure" that shares the same beliefs as they do. I mean isn't that what religion is all about? I wouldn't really know personally, being more of an agnostic myself..., but I mean the article really provides nothing ground-breaking in my opinion it's what I would have expected, and I could have told this guy what the results of such a test would have been and he wouldn't have needed to waste the time doing the research.

As far as the MRI scans, I don't think we know nearly enough about the way the human brain operates to actually be able to understand whats going on inside someones head by taking pictures of their grey matter while haveing them "think" of something. I take those with a grain of salt personally.

But as far as his findings about peoples beliefs on certain subjects and thier thoughts on what "thier god of choice" would believe, of COURSE theyre gonna be the same. I mean if your preacher preaches that abortion is ok, and you don't agree, your gonna find another church yes? pretty simple , the author is right..It IS definitely NOT Rocket Science.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by orwellianunenlightenment
I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I am zealously against zealots. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. I hate merry-go-rounds but I love them. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. Infinite loop. "I" am not two halves of a binary computer divided. "I" am "I" Phew. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.


What is wrong with you? Your submissions aren't even clever in a rhythmic beatnik sense. Can you not say what you're saying without being so inane and erratic, Dadio?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by A Fortiori
 





It's a simple question. I'm asking MooCow. Then I want you to ask yourself if your views are being forced on me. I'm asking MooCow.

TV, don't know about over there but I got loads of xtian tv channels, no more no less than strippers or cartoons.

No one is forcing anything upon me when I watch TV as I can turn it off, I can say no and that;s the end of it.

It's slightly different with BBC programming as they are publicly funded and a bit long winded. Nevertheless there was only last week an investigation into complaints about religious (not xtian but religions as a whole) programming, if I wasn't off to bed I'd explain.

As I've said time and again, i don't give a fig what you believe and I would fight for your right to believe what you will.

I do not knowingly push my beliefs (I have none in relation to the xtian god or anything else I can think of right now) onto anyone else.

I don't come to these threads trying to force my non belief upon xtians that would seem rather hypocritical.

As I said earlier I'm only here because peoples beliefs are being forced upon me or attempts are made to force them upon me.

It is one thing for me to be able to switch channels or turn off the TV but it is something else having to take measures to change laws.

The irony here is that xtianity makes a lot of noise about the alleged free will, yet it knowingly tries to interfere with my free will.

Whether I'm wrong or right about gods in the sky makes no difference to to my right to make my own choices. If I decided to be gay tomorrow that is my right and is no business of anyone else no one has the right to try and prevent me for doing so , by doing so they are attempting to interfere with my free will.

If you believe I am attempting to interfere with you free will, then please explain how ?

Have I said you shall not believe this or that ? No I haven't.

Would I attempt to prevent you from discussing your beliefs, well no I wouldn't why should I?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by JayinAR
Sorry if this has been advanced prior to now. I don't have the time to read all 15 pages of what I'm sure are nothing more than insults being hurled at one another by now before I have to head off to work.

Short and sweet, this article does absolutely nothing to disprove anything.
God, if (s)he exists, is a being that cannot be approached by man. Therefore, all of the people who believe in the idea of a being more powerful than themselves, are going to mold their beliefs about said God to that which they believe about themselves from a philisophical standpoint...

...The only thing this article points out is that people don't have direct communication with God. It does absolutely nothing to strike down the idea of God and is a total waste of time.

Yes -- This had been pointed out before, but it bears repeating.

In my opinion, the only reason the OP posted that article is so he can have an "intellectual excuse" for acting like a thug. He couldn't just start a thread called "Religion Sucks", so he first posted an article about how the human brain forms ideas about "God", then uses the subsequent posts to go on an rant that bears no relevance to his OP.

Anyway, going back to the study (and the original topic of this thread before the OP intentionally derailed it), it seems pretty obvious to me that humans -- being who they are -- would use their past experiences and beliefs in formulating their personal belief in God. That should go without saying (and without the need for a study).

And -- yes -- I agree with you that "IF" a Supreme Creator of the Universe exists, then the manner in which the human brain believes in that creator is completely irrelevant.


I swear sometimes the atheists can be every bit as fundamentalist as the most rabid Xter.

Ain't that the truth.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by JayinAR
 





God, if (s)he exists, is a being that cannot be approached by man


Why not and who told you this ?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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Dude, you could get a straight out confession from the person/group of people that invented christianity that it's all fake and that god doesn't exist, and the Christians still won't give up.
Same thing goes for all religions, people need religion because it gives them a meaning to life.
I'm not saying Christianity or any other religions are wrong, because personally, I don't care.
I'm saying stop trying to convince them, because they'd rather light themselves on fire than accept that their religion is wrong.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by rexusdiablos
 


Well, it seems that no matter what anyone says, the answer will be met with negativity. I gave you some examples that directly contradict your premise... these were not boastings, and certainly not boastings in myself, for I fully admitted what my natural human thoughts and inclinations were. They were simply stories relating how God's principles are DIFFERENT than ours, and in my case, how I have done things in my life that were contrary to what may be described as typical human behavior, and I fully gave God the credit for helping me overcome my human nature.

My stories are 100% true, but if you don't wish to believe them, that is totally up to you. You are quite free to believe whatever you want.

What is obvious to me is that you are making many judgments about having faith in God, and yet it does not seem that you have truly walked by faith in your life. So how can you really know what is true about it, and what is not? How can a man who is born blind make any certain judgments about what the world looks like? Of course he can believe whatever he wishes. A person with vision can tell the man "the sun is bright orange/yellow" and the blind man can say "I don't believe it... I think it is green" and nobody will be able to convince the man otherwise.

You claim to believe in science, and yet you seem to ignore the scientific method. Here is why I say that: before I came to believe in God I was unsure of the Biblical truth, so I set out to prove it or disprove it. Now, to do that, it is necessary to do a valid experiment, and how can a person test if faith is real unless they actually have true faith? Certainly if God exists, he will not be fooled by half-hearted attempts. I reasoned that if I gave myself fully and truly to the conditions put forth, it would become apparent soon enough as to whether it was real or not.

In my case, I followed the teachings of Christ as best I could, even some of his "harder" teachings, always asking for God to help me and change me, and what I found was most remarkable indeed. And, just to be clear, I am not boasting, but only giving a true account of my experiences, as any witness in a courtroom would do. Boasting would mean that I was saying I did these things because of my own effort and goodness, but on the contrary, I have fully admitted my failings, but at the same time given testimony of God's truthfulness and faithfulness to help those who ask with an honest heart.

Of course, you are not compelled to believe me, and in fact, if your mind is 100% made up, your own prejudiced bias will not allow you to believe anything I say, since that would suggest that perhaps you are mistaken about your assumptions.

On the other hand, it does seem that your personal crusade against "faith in God" may be your minds way of searching out the truth, though if you are ever going to get at the truth, you will need to consider all sides of the issue in an open-hearted manner.

If you start with a prejudiced belief, that paradigm will prevent you from seeing anything other than what you already think, and all that you see will SEEM to validate your assumptions. That is only an illusion, however. It's called PARADIGM, and it exists in all human mental endeavors, including science and religion.

To overcome paradigm, whether in science or religion, requires a great effort of honesty and open-mindedness, even to the point of being proven 100% wrong. In fact, a true scientist will never hold on to his postulates, but will be just as happy for his assumptions to be proven wrong as right, for truth is what matters, not being right or wrong.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:15 PM
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Oh God, this escalated into one of those threads.

reasonable, I really hope you're getting a kick out of this. Though you have proven nothing other than how much of a dick you can be to others who don't share your sentiment.

...And to everyone else - How could you fall into this trap?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by reasonable
 


That study is definitely interesting, especially the egotistical aspect of it.

No wonder why it is so hard for people to see someone else' point of view, we're simply too single-minded for such a thing.

What is really funny is really funny is the idea of trying to condense the infinite (God) into something finite that the mind can comprehend.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by rexusdiablos
 


Oh, and I do find these two comments quite incongruous:




I'm not calling you a liar though since I'm not a liar myself I will but offer you a truthful response: I don't believe in some of the claims you've made in your post. It's nothing personal, I just don't.




Conclusively, your post is decidedly UNCHRISTIAN. Yes, I'm criticizing the submissions of your post but I do not disrespect you nor am I disrespecting you. This should be allowed in a public forum. To clarify and to repeat, I'm not Christian.


So, you are not calling me a liar, and yet you are saying you don't believe my personal testimony of facts, and then you say you are criticizing my submission, and yet you don't disrespect me.

So, in not disrespecting me, what is it exactly that you are saying? Are you saying that I dreamed the facts of my life? If I'm not lying, then you must be suggesting that I'm some how mistaken about some of the most difficult and life-changing events of my life.

What don't you believe? That my wife did what she did and I responded the way I said I did? Or that I was fully bent on suing the people who cheated me, but changed my desire after I prayed about it? Well, not only did I not sue them, but I actually went in and helped them get the code up and running when they called me to help them.

If I truly wanted to boast, I could tell you MANY more things, but I did not and will not. You can't make the assertions you've made in this thread however, and not expect people to give their take on things.

Can't you accept that perhaps you do not know all that there is to know about this topic? Isn't it possible that you have only seen a handful of examples, and perhaps those were not very good examples? Thomas Edison identified thousands of ways that the lightbulb did not work before he found the one way that it would work. If he had taken your approach, he would have given up after only a few hundred "bad examples." Thank God he had a true scientific heart to get at the truth!



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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reply to post by dalan.
 


I agree Dalan, it is impossible to package the infinite God into a finite box. I do think though that we can imagine infinity by way of comparison.

By the way, I marked you as a friend because I like the things you have written, and also the list of likes/dislikes you put in your profile.

I perceive that you have a heart for truth (as opposed to just proving yourself to be right), and that is not all that common. That's the kind of people I'd like to team up with here on ATS in order to deny ignorance and pursue understanding.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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reply to post by zarp3333
 





What if you proved beyond a doubt that there was no god but found people who believed, never the less gained something positive?


There are so many wonderful post to respond to, but this one caught my attention,

I know many here don't want to hear this, but it is my faith that has seen me through many tough situations, and seemingly given me supernatural strength to face situation,

And no matter what god you believe in, there is beauty to be found in the wisdom teachings, yes we all know the negative side of religion and love to point it out, but there is also the positive side,

We can look at religions down through the ages as a window into the history of man, mankind's greatness and shortcomings, his desire to understand and explain why we exist, early man/prophet was not unlike the scientist.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by orwellianunenlightenment
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 


“And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.”

This might be a wild guess, but my intuition is screaming it. I could be off, but I thought I would share. False trinities? Singularities of threefold structures.

The dragon could be seen as colonial and controlling. Its will is to dominate another. Its love is only for itself. Its logic is structured only to entangle the other, to be the master of the slave, but all of this eventually entangles the dragon. "The dragon always eats itself."

The beast is like the false center of ego. It, in all its vainglory, spreads its IMAGE all over society, and tells others to dance in circles around it, as it is the god to be worshiped. Its will is to seek a stroking of its ego. Its love is all wrapped up in its projected image. Its logic is a logo (think about what marketers do all the time) seeking to usurp the universal LOGOS, that perfect logic seeking perfect reconciliation, wanting only to intertwine with PATHOS, perfectly reconciled emotion (love). It is an impostor and a usurper.

The false prophet seeks to be seen as the Christ, but seeks to have others worship his image. Much like the beast, but instead of imitating God, this false prophet imitates a reconciliator. However, this being seeks division, divide and conquer, and not reconciliation. It seeks to be an author perpetuating and continually rewriting the devil's drama, so to speak.


I hope the mods don't mind the large quote,

I need to read this a few more times, would you care to add anything?



posted on Dec, 1 2009 @ 06:42 PM
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Hello,
I am a Muslim and proud of my faith. please Let me share with you what a Muslims belief is regarding god. I am not trying to start a whole new thread about Islam, but Im just simply sharing what we believe. There is no compulsion in religion, so don't think Im trying enforce my beliefs on anyone. cuz everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. you can either read, or skip this. and I mean no disrespect to anyone at all.

In Islam, we believe there is only one god. we don't associate any partners with him, which means, we don't worship anyone else but him. no son, no father, no mother, or holy spirit. Because he is FAR beyond the need of having any partners to share in his majesty. We pray directly to him without any intercessors. We seek forgiveness from him alone, because he is the most forgiving, most merciful to his creation. our vision cannot grasp him, while his vision grasps all things hidden, in the unseen or visible.

We call god - Allah. The Arabic word Allah literary means - The one and only god. The difference between the word god and Allah is, the name Allah cannot be applied to anything. you cannot apply a gender to it, nor can you make it a plural, like more than one god. while the word god, you can change it to - goddess, goddesses, gods, and if you spell it backwards, it spells - dog..

In the Quran, chapter 112 - Al-Ikhlas
Allah revealed this verse to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) when people asked him about god:

1. Say (O Muhammad ): "He is Allâh, the One.
2. "Allâh-us-Samad [Allâh the absolute, the Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, (He neither eats nor drinks)].
3. "He begets not, nor was He begotten.
4. "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him."

so this chapter clearly states that nothing can possibly compare to him, which means, we are not created in his Image. He was not human, nor does he resemble any of his creations. And it doesn't suit the Almighty creator of everything, to manifest himself to one of his creations to kill himself to forgive the world...this is why he sent prophets, to teach their people how to seek forgiveness and mercy from Allah alone. And we believe Jesus was a prophet Of Allah, sent to the tribe of Israel. He wasn't divine, nor the son of god.

In Islam, We believe Allah is the universal god. In many verses and chapters in Quran he mentions in his own words that he is the creator and originator of the heavens and the earth, the universe, the galaxies, the planets, the sun, the moon, all living and non living creatures and things, they all belong to him, and he is the king and master of everything.
Of course, this is what we Muslims believe


There is a verse called ''the verse of the kursi'' (the verse of the throne or chair - which is not something he sits on like we humans do)

Surat: Al Baqara (2) verse 255
This is what the creator says:

"Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. to him belong all that is In the heavens and the earth. Who is there that can intercede In His presence except As he permits? He knows What (appears to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they acquire any of his knowledge Except as He wills. His throne (kursi) extends Over the heavens and the earth, and He feels No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory)."
[Surah al-Baqarah 2: 255]

Allah isn't just the god of the Muslims. because The Arab Christians and Jews of the old generations, called god - Allah. They believed in him as the one and only god too. He is the universal god and creator of all things.

All of what I said is the basics of what a Muslim believes regarding god.
Ill leave this info as a nice cake, and whoever wants some of it can have some, and who ever dislikes it, then don't bother with it.
I hope I didn't offend anyone, because I was simply sharing our belief.


Peace to everyone



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