What I don't get about Jesus

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Ok fair enough. But consider this--- You get upset with your school of sardines. So you go looking for a better school.
Do you know marine biology enough to finish my story?
Maybe getting eaten by a grouper is a little like hell for a sardine.
Schools and flocks are created over millennia for the common good.
Can you site the successes of the black sheep?

If the only reason you believe is to conform, then you have some soul searching to do. Besides, there are enough non-believers to conform in that way too, if you're too weak of a mind to make it up yourself.

My experience is, That religion is used for control of the people.

What better way would you think of ? A belief or worship leads to obedience and extremism, especially for those converted to, or a lifetime of indoctrination.



[edit on 23-11-2009 by Sinter Klaas]

Originally posted by LiquidLight
reply to post by nazo102

 

Oh, I completely agree with the message. Love towards your fellow man and all that good stuff. It's the divinity of the messenger that bothers me.

He was no more divine than u and me and we are all as divine as he were. Its as simple as that... im sure that we can find peoples that resurrected, or that could see after beeing blind, and MAYBE that walked on water since then, that have not been healed by Jesus himself...

He was just trying to make us realize that we are all like him

reply to post by LiquidLight

What I don't get about Jesus is why people believed him when he said he was the son of God. Let's say for a minute that he did heal the sick, walk on water, and come back from the dead. In today's world, someone like that would most likely be called a demon. What proof do we have, besides his own word, that he is the son of God

For one thing it dosn't take to much intelligence to know that you can
separate the righteous from the wicked by the fruit they bare. If you can't figure things from there, I can only believe you just don't want to.
If that is the case, then what be the truth in the reasoning of this thread?
Most likely be called a demon.
Well I imagine we will see about that very soon.

I can offer one very bold statement the Bible offers in contrast.

In the end" every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Jesus Christ is Lord" , That includes satan himself. satan without the capital S.
for I have no respect for him or his. Of lies and murders he is the Father.

Originally posted by LiquidLight
This, of course, assumes the whole thing isn't a story made up by some Jewish guys trying to undermine the authority of the Roman Empire. I'm really at a loss here. Why do so many people take this at face value without any proof whatsoever?

Actually the first accounts of Jesus are by Paul, formerly Saul of Tarsus, and the Jesus he describes has little in common with the Jesus we know about today but people liked Paul's message as explained in this video:



so eventually people filled in the blanks about Jesus that Paul left in his writings. The interesting thing is, how many characteristics Jesus has in common with Horus after the blanks were filled in:

www.religioustolerance.org...

Some people wonder if all those similarities are just coincidence. But it is interesting that Paul says so very little about the life of Jesus even though he wrote over 80,000 words about him, we have to wonder why.

If I were Paul and wrote 80,000 words about Jesus, it seems to me like one of the coolest things Jesus did was walking on water, so I would find it virtually impossible to not mention that at all about Jesus, nor mention any other miracles he performed, yes Paul didn't mention them.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by randyvs
For one thing it dosn't take to much intelligence to know that you can
separate the righteous from the wicked by the fruit they bare. If you can't figure things from there, I can only believe you just don't want to.

Not true. As I said before, the righteous acts could simply have been a means to an end (getting people to worship someone besides God, thus breaking the first commandment).

If that is the case, then what be the truth in the reasoning of this thread?

The reasoning behind this thread is simply to understand why people believe what they do. I'm not trying to change your beliefs, just to understand them. So far, I'm not having much luck.


[edit on 11/23/2009 by LiquidLight]

reply to post by nazo102


Your faith seems evident.
I look at the second coming for clues about Jesus.
Think about "thief in the night"
To me that means you don't know who or when.
Could it be the guy that returned your lost wallet in tact, including the cash, asked nothing and left with no more than a thank you?
Renewed your faith in humanity.
Could it be your Grandmother teaching you how to make cookies expecting nothing more than your love.
If there can be a second coming then why not a continuous stream of Jesus for eternity?

Originally posted by LiquidLight
reply to post by kiwifoot

 

So you're saying that Old Testament scripture is the proof for his divinity? Couldn't it be that he was able to manipulate the people because of their beliefs?

No I'm not really saying that, but the Jews had believed for many years (still do) that the Messiah was going to come and be the King of the Jews.

So when Jesus pops up, those people that saw his miracles first hand, listened to his teachings and believed, assumed he was the Messiah.

Now I don't know if he was or not, but the people that followed were primed and ready for the Messiah to appear.

It has to be said that the overwhelming majority rejected him

Christianity started with but a few disciples and followers.

I think that anybody who reads the Bible should keep in mind that this is a pretty old book. Translation errors and missing "chapters" could very well be possible. Also keep in mind that the way it's written can even confuse theologians...

Originally posted by LiquidLight

Good point, but what if all of that were simply a means to an end; i.e. getting people to worship someone besides/in addition to God. If you've watched the series V, you'd understand... The aliens preach peace and heal the sick, but their ultimate goal is nefarious.

Well, Jesus never asks for anyone to worship him. He simply says that he is the way and the life. Jesus never asks for glory for himself, rather he offers the glory to God.

Originally posted by LiquidLight
What I don't get about Jesus is why people believed him when he said he was the son of God. Let's say for a minute that he did heal the sick, walk on water, and come back from the dead. In today's world, someone like that would most likely be called a demon. What proof do we have, besides his own word, that he is the son of God?

This, of course, assumes the whole thing isn't a story made up by some Jewish guys trying to undermine the authority of the Roman Empire. I'm really at a loss here. Why do so many people take this at face value without any proof whatsoever?

Y'know, my New Testament's a bit rusty, but I don't think he ever really claimed that he was the "SON OF GOD". He called himself the Son of Man a few times, which is an entirely different thing, doncha think? I know that one of his most radical teachings was the idea that God was to be understood as a loving father-figure and not as a perpetually pissed-off all-powerful cosmic dictator, so, it seems to me, that he taught that we were ALL sons of God. I do remember that supposeldy Pilot accused him of claiming to be "the King of the Jews" and he is reputed to have replied that it was he, Pilot, who made that claim, and not him.

As for why people believe in him, why do so many people believe in any silly mythology? Why so many Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Shintos? The best I can figure is that most people are weak, lazy and easily influenced. The major religions have a historical presence in human society that goes back thousands of years. Most of these religions have become huge businesses that rake in billions upon billions every year. It is so easy and simple to just accept dogma rather than question it. You honestly have to have a backbone to want to go up against the mythologies of the major religions. Especially since a few of them (Christianity and Islam for examples) have been putting in some major efforts to groom assassins from the flock in order to increase their political influence these days.

Well...not everyone thought he was the son of God. He was crucified lol and called a heretic and probably a great deal of other things...

Originally posted by LiquidLight

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Ok fair enough. But consider this--- You get upset with your school of sardines. So you go looking for a better school.
Do you know marine biology enough to finish my story?
Maybe getting eaten by a grouper is a little like hell for a sardine.
Schools and flocks are created over millennia for the common good.
Can you site the successes of the black sheep?

If the only reason you believe is to conform, then you have some soul searching to do. Besides, there are enough non-believers to conform in that way too, if you're too weak of a mind to make it up yourself.

Do not imply who or what I am. It is the confidence of the fool that thinks he knows another.
My question was what are the successes of those that have no faith?
Do you have an answer?
thanks

reply to post by Redge


A star for you for pointing that out without bias.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Do not imply who or what I am. It is the confidence of the fool that thinks he knows another.
My question was what are the successes of those that have no faith?
Do you have an answer?
thanks

I didn't necessarily mean you specifically. I meant a person in general.

Originally posted by Mr Headshot
Well...not everyone thought he was the son of God. He was crucified lol and called a heretic and probably a great deal of other things...

We are all sons or daughters of the original life form. Some have sacrificed willingly others not so much. Some get media play others not so much. Nothing to laugh about head.
Google ,Sadat, Gahandi,JFK, RFK, Tim McVeigh

Originally posted by LiquidLight

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Do not imply who or what I am. It is the confidence of the fool that thinks he knows another.
My question was what are the successes of those that have no faith?
Do you have an answer?
thanks

I didn't necessarily mean you specifically. I meant a person in general.

Ok then give them a break too. We are all equal IMO.
It wouldn't work otherwise.
Nice to know you.

reply to post by LiquidLight

Why do so many people take this at face value without any proof whatsoever?

I don't.

People believe because they're told to believe and they don't know how to stop believing.

Great Post, too bad STILL too many stupid people here on Earth!(not a lot of interest in this post, as yet)

1. Jesus NEVER said he was begotten son of GOD.
every time the inquisitor asked him if he was the son of god he said, "We are all the children of god", later CULTISTS re-intrepreted this statement as a positive affirmation of "son-dom".(for profit/power/rule and control)

2. Great insight on the possibility of the entire "JESUS" thing being a Judaic plot(maybe a essay contest to make up a 'messiah' pared down to just the most useful) to undermine the "ROMAN" empire, instituted 'just after the crushing defeat of the Jewish uprising, [(circa30/60c.e.?) can't remember the date, too lazy to look up, sorry.].

3. Just as a point of order, look around at "Modern America"(20th/21st century), notice any similarities, HMMMM, lets see, We are the greatest POWER/PEOPLE/GOVT.SYSTEM in the history of the Earth!. Foriegn powers are right now in the final stages of a process of WAR called PSYCHOPOLITICS, whereas an enemy destroys your country without firing a shot through Social/Governmental/Institutional/Religious(note that one) infiltration by operatives who work tirelessly to undermine/twist/overwhelm
every sector of your country!(hmmm, maybe?)

Anyway, don't fret, we can all make it by living by pricipals, not personalities!(don't be a sheeple)

I'll get deeper into the subjacts in later threads, gotta work now.

One of the things that started me on my road for finding Jesus was in Numbers.
If you take all of the numbers of the different tribes and added them up and placed them in their camps around the Tabernacle it forms a cross. Now you have to ask yourself why a cross?