I beg of you read this. Stop the drama...

I agree. A workers' strike coupled with not paying taxes to the state (i.e. federal, state, and local) will be a major blow to TPTB. MAJOR! But we must back it with those willing to protect and do violence against the peaceful demonstrators. You know the politician stormtroopers would be more than happy to unleash Xe and God knows what else on the peasantry.


[edit on 8-11-2009 by PenandSword]

reply to post by Draves


The OP's post is well intended but completely ignorant. The socio-economic structure of India when Gandhi's movement happened, and America now are completely different. A similar movement here wouldn't work and let me tell you why. Most American do not even pay income taxes. The top 1% pay 40% of income tax revenue. The top 25% pay 90% of tax revenue. You will never get these people to stop working, or stop paying their taxes when they have worked their butts off for their entire lives to achieve the success that they have. Not saying others do not work their butts off, but if you aren't working or do not have a serious job, you do not risk much with the sort of movement you propose. You could have the entire bottom 50% of Americans join you and you know what the result would be: 2% loss of income taxes. And keep in mind, I am talking about tax payers, not the population. If you want to talk about population 47% don't even pay a dime in income tax.

The reason this worked in India was that nearly the entire country was in the position where they had nothing to lose by protesting as such. India was a poor country with a completely different economic structure than the US that was on the verge of economic collapse already. This is no way minimizes Gandhi's movement. He and those that joined his movement were amazing people and they should be applauded.

What you have to realize, is that each transformative movement has to fit the society and culture in which it is trying to change. A Gandhi movement in the US is not even accomplishable. I wish something like that could work here, but when you know the facts and differences in the countries, and aren't just talking about emotional rhetoric, you would know this isn't possible. Not saying it has to be a armed revolt either. But it does need to be something with teeth when more than 50% of the country will not join it.

So I really appreciate your sentiment, but it just wouldn't work in the US. We all wish it would. But your emotional appeal doesn't match up to facts and knowledge about why Gandhi's movement worked, and why that same movement wouldn't work in the US.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by johnny2127]

reply to post by Draves


I perceive that you are a very intelligent man and at the same time your idealology is naive to say the least. Admirable, but neive. How I wish it could be so, but it is not and it never will be. How far will your passivity go? Will you let your family be taken to prison for not taking a vaccine, or owning government sponsored insurance?
You are asking the rivers to stop flowing from north to south. You are asking the ocean to stop having the eb and flo of it's tide.
Mankind, you and I, are evil. Very little flows from our hearts that is not in some way, shape, or form, self serving. We are capable of good acts but for the most part they are concious effort, while the evil that we do comes naturally.
What good did you hope to accomplish in your post by implying that those who did not see it your way or agree needs to grow up? Was that part of the good in your heart? Again, your ideas are admirable, but to say they are unrealistic is an understatement.
seeashrink

Originally posted by Draves

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by Draves

 

People say talk is cheap...

Recognize that quote?

What are YOU doing to make a change?

Peace.

Well right now I am making a thread that made the front page....chew on that.

Like you said......talk is cheap.

It seems you are actively doing nothing, so i can't take you serious unfortunately. You seem quite childish too.

Do you want flags and stars, or do you want change?

I've made my mind up.

Peace.

I can't believe this isn't moved to BTS and to beg for flags in the
headline . You need to pull your head out partner. I mean so much drama
about drama. That's the best you can dream of for a thread ? GET OUT!
TPTB will have there day. You know why?
Because every dog has his day.
You need to worry about you.
Next time you think you have a great idea for a thread
you might want to remember how ignorent this one made you look.
Don't go dramatizing to much though, just try to do better next time.



"You want stars with that". too funny.
NO SnF




[edit on 8-11-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by Draves


At the end of your comment, you say we can change it voting, well with all respect I'm not sure 100%. We might be supporting something already decided by powerfull people, who make us believe we are taking part in aclean process. How come, they work together now after compete during elections? How come usually the winner do the opposite of what was promise in campaing?

See, it's simple: They can control whatever they want outside, but your soul will always be free.

Of course, I agree we need to use a pacific way, but the answer would be right there. where nobody want to go. Freedom resides in your heart, from inside to outside, release the power given by God. I beleive we can channel enough energy to defeat who wants to control us. Personally, my existence had been always in control of God, I just needed to know.

My family went thru WWII in Europe, those days nobody thought Hitler c ould be defeated. My family prevails thru me, we won.

sorry for any spelling error.

This should be moved to the RANT section.

Why the begging to be flagged? Shouldn't the content and message of your post be enough to get people to feel its worth the read? You say you demand respect, that is just silly. Present yourself in a respectable way (ie, don't rub it in or get all mad when someone goes against your views) and you will gain respect.

So far anyone that has come out against your way of thinking you have made slighted comments in return. You said you want intellectual discussion and not debate, but if you would see that others are putting out their points of view up against yours, it is perfect for the creation of intellectual debate. Stop demanding and start asking.

Originally posted by Draves
Well right now I am making a thread that made the front page....chew on that.

Guy makes thread about how we need to all get along and stopping the drama. Somebody replies with some fairly reasonable feedback and gets a "chew on that".

Hahahahah! Man, I love this place. Bud, there would never be drama and disagreement if we all agreed, no? Way to be the change.

Now go back and reflect on that then come back and tell us you now understand why things are as they are.

reply to post by LiveForever8


You made up your mind, but you read it. It doesn't take much to influence someones beliefs. I just wanted people to read my true message. I wanted people here to read my thoughts. Everyone has thoughts. Not all are perfect. I am not saying I am omnipotent. I just know the world could be better. How do you think it could be improved? What are your ideas? If you don't have any then that's fine, but that gives you no basis to judge me. Things need to change. We all know that. Obama wasn't it. What can we do? Change. We wish for it. Obama won promising it. The problem is we need to do more than vote. We need to make it happen. Don't call me childish. It is easy to ignore things. A real man will never ignore what is wrong. They will step up and talk about it. I wanted to talk about this issue with others.

Peaceful resistance is an ultimate solution in my thoughts. We could shut this country down while sitting on or butts. It doesn't matter if the super-rich pay the most taxes. There revenue depends on workers. See past it. A majority will always win. A majority always wins out in the end.

Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Why the begging to be flagged? Shouldn't the content and message of your post be enough to get people to feel its worth the read? You say you demand respect, that is just silly. Present yourself in a respectable way (ie, don't rub it in or get all mad when someone goes against your views) and you will gain respect.

So far anyone that has come out against your way of thinking you have made slighted comments in return. You said you want intellectual discussion and not debate, but if you would see that others are putting out their points of view up against yours, it is perfect for the creation of intellectual debate. Stop demanding and start asking.

I feel i may be coming off wrong. Emotions have always been a problem for me. I care. I care about everyone and everything. Do you think the people i belittled read all my posts? Did you? (look I just did it again )

I wanted to send a good message, but when people diss it it is terrible. I know that one day the world will be close to what I talk about. There really isn't an option anymore.

I did not demand respect. I demanded to be heard. That is all I wanted. If you poured out your truest heart felt beliefs on the forum would you not want to be heard? Would you not defend it? I can't help it. I have been tempted to make this thread for two years. I am going to fight for it.

Imagine how i fell for a second. I am trying to express an opinion and people keep saying negative things. It doesn't do much for the ego. It goes back to the fear/anger thing. We will defend our positions. It doesn't mean we can't change. How should we change?

Originally posted by MrDesolate

Originally posted by Draves
Well right now I am making a thread that made the front page....chew on that.

Guy makes thread about how we need to all get along and stopping the drama. Somebody replies with some fairly reasonable feedback and gets a "chew on that".

Hahahahah! Man, I love this place. Bud, there would never be drama and disagreement if we all agreed, no? Way to be the change.

Now go back and reflect on that then come back and tell us you now understand why things are as they are.

It isn't about agreeing, it is about coming to a sensible and peaceful solution. If we could all agree that would be great, but it will never happen (in our lifetimes). We can talk about things however and come to a compromise. We don't need to fight.

How many scientists were killed because they came up with a new thought? We are still stuck on that. Galileo was wrong, Newton was wrong, and Einstein was wrong. Accept change....scary I know. I have had a lot of it recently...

reply to post by Draves


WTH Are you still dreaming? Stop dwelling on it. Let the thread die.
Thank God you have no avatar for people to remember you.
I gaurantee when you comeback you won't be any less battle hardened.
Make the best of everything partner. harsh yes. I promise you it isn't meant in a mean way. Most of the good people here at ATS are just that.
I do try to be one of them. I hope you will see that.
The proof of that people are flagging you.
I just can't bring myself to.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by randyvs]

The one issue Drave, is that people aren't willing to grow up. That's what as you said we need to form a group of people who are willing to accept responsibility for their actions.

My email is [email protected], we can discuss further there, I have a brother who deals with website marketing, he can get us space for a website, but let me know if you're interested.


Let's not make this another fad, but let's take this moment to look at ourselves without immature thoughts of society, leading towards self-destructive behavior.

[edit on 8-11-2009 by socrates271]

Originally posted by factbeforefiction
This should be moved to the RANT section.

No really it shouldn't. It is not a rant. The political structure is very messed up and I am expressing opinions on how to fix it. If anyone wants to chime in and suggests things i will be happy. Not just bashing me, but saying "I like this idea but what we really need is this"....i'd be thrilled. A rant is being caused by other users. I just want to talk about the current world and how we can fix things (politics is the first step).

Life is but a stage.

Is it wrong to ask for what you want? Is it illegal? Unconstitutional? Wrong? A Sin? I wanted to be heard. I wanted you to listen. I want to be understood. Do I need more reason than that?

Originally posted by MADCZAR
Life is but a stage.

Oh yes it sure is. Wouldn't it be fun when the actors realize that though?

Originally posted by Draves

Originally posted by factbeforefiction
This should be moved to the RANT section.

No really it shouldn't. It is not a rant. The political structure is very messed up and I am expressing opinions on how to fix it. If anyone wants to chime in and suggests things i will be happy. Not just bashing me, but saying "I like this idea but what we really need is this"....i'd be thrilled. A rant is being caused by other users. I just want to talk about the current world and how we can fix things (politics is the first step).

See! This just shows you that people are unwilling to deal with their problems. Not a whole lot of people want to hear this because they feed off of destruction, they like the chaos rather than repairing and rebuilding. Just shows you how lost our minds once were.

reply to post by Draves
I see your point but you are going agenst the grain of the human.We are a spicies of a certian genetic make up,untell you change that genetic make up we will always be who we are.We as a spicies do not have the genetic make up to aquire the "will" to change.Catastrophic events will change us for awhile but our nature will always bring us back to who we really are.

Greed,Sloth,Lust,Envy,Rage,Gluttony,Pride,these are some of the human gene pool trates.We as a spicies have been killing each other since the begenning,we are preditors,always have been,always will be.I have said this before and I never get a comment from anyone as to why I might be wrong.Care to comment.

We are more civilized now you say,no we have just come up with better reasons to kill each other,I like to think of it as more enlightened reasons so as to not let the conscious get the best of you.You might want to study human nature a little before you try to convince others of how easy it would be to all live as one.Not me you say,try liveing in a house say 2000 sq ft and keep adding people to it,and there is no way out except to kill someone,what do think you would do,what do any of you think you would do?