do u see the virgin mary as a god??
if yes how so??
if no why do u praise her soo much?


*this thread was not made to beat up on catholics so pls the usual ppl that start making fun of others DON'T(u know who u are)

Even thought I'm not catholic I was raised one so I think I can answer this one.

Catholics praising Mary next to God is one of the greatest faults in catholicism... also praising saints and angels

only God is due praise , if you step inside a catholic church you'll see a lot of mary statues.

Catholics will tell you they praise and worship mary because she gave birth to jesus and that reason is reason enough

it sounds dumb but that's what i've been told, a dumb reason like that says they have no idea what they do so.

The Virgin Mary, we Catholics praise her because she gave birth to our lord Jesus Chirst. We do not see her as a goddesss in any way, we see her as a saint.

From what I percieve as being a catholic, we don't look at the saints and the Mother Mary as gods. We pray to them to help us pray.

...However, what does the First Commandment say? Look it up.

By giving worship to *any* other person or entity, such prayers are breaking God's First Commandment...In truth, the only Laws of God that are attributed to His own Hand *are* the Ten Commandments...*Anything else* is a man-made creation, interpretation or even simply a historical account of what people thought during their lives & the social-political situations that they had to deal with during their time.

Therefore, anyone who worships God on a Sunday are not abiding by His Commandment of "remembering the Sabbath to keep it Holy" as well: Note that Sabbath (literal translation: Seventh Day) would mean Saturday (The seventh day of the week), not Sunday or Wednesday or any other day. Also note that God doesn't call for *worship* on Saturday (Sabbath), but only the requirement to "remember" it. So this means that people who refuse to labor on Sabbath because of their religion are also misinterpreting His Word...God doesn't mean for you to *cease* your labors on the Sabbath, but only to *remember it, recognize & appreciate the fruits of the labors He accomplished on our behalf*.

A *true* practicing Christian would balk at the idea of praying to any Saint (Some of which were older, pagan gods that were canonized to make this "new" religion more palitable to converted pagans), simply because of God's First Commandment. The *true* Christian would also offer prayer to Jesus, as He is the *only* intermediary between mortals & God: And yet, *organized* Christian Churches (Catholics, Baptists, Protestants & any other such "splinters" of the Christian religion) seek to place more *mortal human beings* as intermediaries (ie: Priests, Bishops, Cardinals, etc...Even Pope himself!) between the mortal & the divine. This is probably the *strongest* reason I have to disdain the practice of *religion* instead of practicing my *faith*. This is where I believe that the Churches have messed it all up: By turning *faith* into an man-made socio-political structure that practices ceremonies above God's Words.

Midnight that's where your off the charts, incredibly wrong

God said to remember the sabbath to keep it holy your right, but he also said not to do labor on it

God rested on the seventh day, so should we

and it was Moses who ordered a man to be stoned to death when he was gathering sticks on the sabbth. sticks!!!!

MD, as much as i sometimes don;t like what Illmatic says he is right in exodus 20:10 it says thou shalt not labor on the sabbath

Yes, in the bible it says so. God didn't write the bible. People wrote it. God wrote ten commandments. So follow them, not the bible.

Who inspired the Bible?

I'm not roman catholic but,the virgin Mary did give birth to Jesus Christ and was chosen by God......
The virgin Mary hears our prayers as so do the Saints .. we do not put them on the same level of God but only pray to them because of their holy status........
If we are all sinners (and we all have sinned) then what better way to get our heartfelt prayers across....
eg......we had an argument or disagreement with a friend and because we feel ashamed or embarresed to face them, we let someone know that if they could put in a good word for us....to say we are sorry........they intervene on our behalf.......
Yes we can go straight to the source "God" but because we feel true shame we ask for help ....eg like a child when he's been naughty covers his face .......he does so because he knows he has done something wrong.....
We feel shamefull because our conscience tells us that it was wrong.....without a conscience this world would not exist.......

Corruption, greed, and power inspired the bible. Church wrote it to control the masses. Hey, they did control the masses and created the dark ages. Also created the Iron Maiden and several other means of torture. They then edited it to make the bible useable over the centuries. Why do you think there are fiftey billion versions?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Corruption, greed, and power inspired the bible. Church wrote it to control the masses. Hey, they did control the masses and created the dark ages. Also created the Iron Maiden and several other means of torture. They then edited it to make the bible useable over the centuries. Why do you think there are fiftey billion versions?

ok ,there are probably so many versions of the Bible because MAN has again altered it for his own satisfaction ....
the original version today would mean that we all had to learn the language and so it is not possible for us to know to read the original version and so it was translated to what each person can read and understand.
As for the "controlling of the masses" you are wrong.......the priests are there to give you the truth(and many have been misled by their own beleifs and power) but that is not what Jesus Christ came here for ....You have a free will to do as you please but your conscience will tell you if you are doing something that is not right.......
you dont go to church or pray because of the priests ......
Why is it then that the Bible is the oldest book to man known to fit in todays life as was many centuries ago.....
Why is the Bible altered? Power and greed does come into it because Man has gone from the truth to seeking after their own beleifs and in doing so they have gone from truth to pleasing themselves and not God.......

And so it is not the work of God that is corrupt,but the work of Mankind and power hungry individuals that have corrupted Gods truth...........

The virgin Mary hears our prayers as so do the Saints .. we do not put them on the same level of God but only pray to them because of their holy status........

WOW! isnt that blasphmey to the eternity power!!

praying to saints and the virgin mary instead the Almighty Yahweh? The God of Abraham???


that's the problem with christianity... they're so caught up in jesus and mary they forgot where the divine presensce really is.. GOD

Muslims and Jews know not to pray at no saints , only God because Him and ONLY Him is worthy of praise and worship

no saint is in heaven, they're all ashes... how sad.. people praying to saints.. it's incredible.

can you explain to me helen how praying to saints helps us?? i'm confused where in the bible does it say that

For thou (Lord) wilt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption(Psalm15:10)
............Wonderous is God in his saints (Ps.67:35)mean that God is glorified through His saints.Living on earth,they praised Gods name by their life of righteousness,glorifying the name of the heavenly Father...The Saviour ,while regarding as His friends all those who fullfilled His commandments,said to His disciples:He that receiveth you receiveth Me,and he that receiveth Me receiveth Him that sent Me(Matt.10:40) ....the effectual fervent prayer of a rightous man availeth much (james 5:16)
God Himself commanded a king to entreat the rightous Abraham to pray for him,saying:For he is a prophet,and shall pray for thee,and thou shalt live (Gen 20:7);The Lord commanded the friends of the long suffering job,who had offended him,to ask his prayers: Go to my servant Job,and he shall pray for you,for him will i accept,lest i deal with your folly(JOB42:8)
Because of the prayers of the rightous the Lord often spared people who had fallen into sin of idolworship and were already doomed to destruction by God; the Lord accepted the prayer of the holy man and pardoned the stiffnecked people(Exodus.32:9-12)
This is jeremiah,the prophet of God, who prays much for the people,and for the holy city(11Macc.15:12,14) A nd the apostle Peter clearly promised his disciples that after his death he would remember them:Moreeover, i will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance(11Pet.1:15)
In the book of revelation the visions of ST John the theologion demonstrates that saints do pray for us,and their prayers, like smoke from a censer,rise before God,and He receives them with favor...............

taken from ""A Ray Of Light"".............jordanville N Y .....holy trinity monastary.......................




[Edited on 23-2-2003 by helen]

ok, that still has no bearing in you praying to saints

God told Abraham that
God told Job this

that's because God TOLD them to do that

and Jeremiah was PROPHET, sent by God

of course God would have human workers for him on earth, but are you going to pray on Jeremiah today for God's blessing? No.. why? because he's not in heaven.

Originally posted by Illmatic67God said to remember the sabbath to keep it holy your right, but he also said not to do labor on it

Okay, you're right...At least in the NIV version. I don't have any other versions handy to double-check. But still, those who refuse to work on SUNDAY due to religion still have it wrong because Sunday is the *first* day of the week, not seventh.

WOW! I totally agree with illmatic.

Praying to Mary is, in my opinion, an aspect of the syncretic catholic church.

Parts of the "old" pagan religions were incororated into the catholic church, praying to mary, transsubstantiation of the host (the wafer "really" changes into the body of christ) are all aspects of the prechristian pagan religions that early christianity supplanted.

No they are not in the bible, and No they were never considered by the early christians... infact paul even warns about people who pray to angels somewhere.

( Following falcons request I am trying not to beat up catholics in my post)

[Edited on 23-2-2003 by Netchicken]

Good point MD! Sunday is the first day, not the last. Saturday is the last day. Wow, catholics so uh, wait, can't bash catholics. Ok, they so "confused" they can't even pray on the right day! Of course, if they did they wouldn't pray to god. God isn't important, the saints, Mary, Jesus, others are, but pray to god? Oh the horror!

Typical bash fest, its truly sad, ill post this one time for the sake
of falcon.

1. The sabbath of the old law was abrogated upon the new law, jesus rose
from the dead on sunday, the holy ghost came upon the apostles on sunday.

the old law was abrogated upon new..

according to the bible, read closely.

ACTS 20:7

"" And on the (first) day of the weekm when we were ((assembled))
to (break) bread, paul discoursed with them and continued his speach until midnight ""


again the old law was replaced by the new in this manner..


1 CORINTHIANS 16:2

"" On the (first) day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying
up what it shall please him ""


midnight you judge all catholics?

well...

COLOSSIANS 2:16

"" Let (no) (man) judge you in meat or drink, or in respect of a (festival) (day) , or
of the new moon, or of the ((sabbath)) ""


and you still judge catholics?

Now about worshipping mary, that is not what our church teaches at all.

infact whoever does, will be excommunicated at once.

We (pray) to mary and the saints..

why??

so they can pray for us?

what did god say?

The more praying in a gathering the more response god has..


I ask my father to pray for me, also my aunt..

so am i a (liar) a (pagan)?

nonsense.

why cant i ask my holy mother mary to pray for me? where in scripture is asking for someone
to pray for us wrong??

Its not inscripture.

again, we dont worship mary, nor ask her to give us favors or salvation.

we only ask them to pray for us to the lord. jesus cannot deny mary in her askings.

she is the blessed mother of us. and you say we cannot ask for her prayers?

believe whatever you want, only sincere people know what im saying.

peace.

James the Lesser brings up a very good point in saying we should follow the Ten Commandments because it was written by God's HOLY Finger.

Truth, I dont care what Jesus said, who is he to change the Ten Commandments, a creed given down to Moses by God himself

who says it's allowed to be changed, it's irreversable!

God wrote the Ten Commandments because it will lead all of us to a perfect and good life.

Just because Jesus rose on sunday and the the disciples received the the holy spirit on a sunday doesnt change the sabbath from a saturday to the sunday

real people follow the Law of Moses because it cannot be CHANGED.

The most important thing Jesus EVER said was that he did not come to change the law, but to fulfill it as you said... Jesus didnt change the sabbath, christians did!

Jesus was not a christian, he was a Jew.

because of that verse "let no man judge you on meat and drink" or whatever, so that gives us the right to eat pork and to drink alcohol all day, right?? isnt alcholo drinking a sin because we're shaming ourself by drinking


but because of that verse, you justify yourself by eating pork and alcohol, which to Muslims and Jews is a SIN, but to christians it's all good because we're allowed to because we're holy because we can ourself christian.


you can ask your aunt and your uncle to pray for you, sure... i dont find a problem with that... but do you pray to your aunt and uncle for their blessing ? no, why ? because they're human.

instead of praying to mary, pray to GOD... truth, look past your catholic view... it's RIDICULOUS to pray to Mary.. she's NO ONE.