Am I a white racist?, page 1

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Topic started on 1-11-2009 @ 05:32 PM by halfoldman

I'm a believer in reincarnation, but I would rather return as an ant than a black man in Africa under a black African dictarorship.
I don't deny that other influences have harmed Africa, or dispute that successful black states (for example Botstwana) do not exist.
As a missionary said (quoted from "Time", May 16th, 1994):
"There are no devils left in hell, they are all in Rwanda".
I know that black people are equal in intelligence to whites, so why do they tolerate this thieving and killing on the premise of the anti-white race-card?

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 05:37 PM by tothetenthpower

reply to post by halfoldman

It's not about tolerance. They do not have the tools to get out of their present predicament. Countries like the US among others keep these places poor for a reason my friend.

Third world countries exist because the 1st world is too self absorbed in itself and has no need or want to help other developping nations.

Now we do send them food and aid every year, that's all well and nice but we do not provide them with any "real" support in order for them to move forward.

We simply allow the status quo to continue. Unfortunate but true.

~Keeper

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 05:58 PM by halfoldman

reply to post by tothetenthpower

No, I think there's more to the story than just that. Politicians here in SA are thieving and enriching themselves, and the lower echelons copy the "culture of entitlement". There's still a huge qusetion on why these people are even in power, since few (none of the younger ones) of them were involved in the "liberation struggle".
The worst is tribalism. That remians a huge issue. One moment everything is peaceful, and the next moment people are burning in the street.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:03 PM by acmpnsfal

reply to post by halfoldman

I dont really see the point of this thread except for trying to stir up random unnecessary racial arguments on ATS. There are plenty of other thread already around for people like you my friend. But to go with your topic, no it does not make you a racist. Since all people of color do not live there you have not excluded all black people. You are just a spoiled westerner, congrats.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:09 PM by halfoldman

reply to post by acmpnsfal

The aim of the thread is not to undermine black people, it is to highlight the Western conspiracy of silence on the daily horror of millions of Africans. It is just a different approach. You create black dictators, fund them, and then you turn your backs and say: yeah, that's black Africa. However, to highlight this, I feel that African people must also be held accountable - or are racists saying that they are incapable of being accountable?

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:20 PM by Silver Shadow

All of us are disadvantaged in some ways..........

I once asked my business partner (who is black) why some black people steal and lie so much.
We are friends enough, and trust each other enough, that he was not insulted by that question.

His reply was:
"If you grew up in absolute poverty in a third world country, you HAVE to take every opportunity you see just to live.
Honest or not",

If you live in a wealthy affluent society, with plenty of food, a secure roof over your head, and money in your pocket, and opportunity for advancement, you can AFFORD to moralise.

He has a point.

.

[edit on 1/11/2009 by Silver Shadow]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:30 PM by acmpnsfal

reply to post by halfoldman

Well that aim was not apparent to me in your first post. Obviously the history of Africa and why it is in the condition goes back further than just the corrupt politicians of today. I mean Africans have been turned against each other for a long time starting with Europe exploiting them to get diamonds etc. I guess a lot of the manipulation has come from the divide and conquer paradigm used in almost every society.

Since I am not a racist and really do not understand their thought processes I cannot answer your question. But I will say that it all boils down, in my mind, to misrepresentation/misunderstanding of history and the superiority complex.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:35 PM by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Countries like the US among others keep these places poor for a reason my friend.

I'm going to assume that you are ill-informed on this matter.

I'm simply going to link to this Google Search so that others may get some idea about how much money the US pours into Africa.

Some may find this to be of special interest.

Since taking office, Bush has more than doubled U.S. development assistance from about $10 billion in 2000 to $23 billion in 2006. This funding, in the hands of a new generation of African leaders committed to the ideals of freedom and justice, has helped cure diseases, educate children, and build new roads and infrastructure and has unlocked Africa’s entrepreneurial potential by promoting new business opportunities.

When Bush visited the region in 2003, only 50,000 people were receiving medicine to treat HIV/AIDS, but thanks to the President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) -- a $15 billion investment to deliver anti-retroviral drugs and upgrades to health care services -- more than 1.3 million Africans are getting care today.

Bush also has asked Congress to double funding for PEPFAR as well, to provide $30 billion over the next five years to continue the delivery of medicine, health care services and education on how to prevent HIV/AIDS.

www.america.gov...

[edit on 2009/11/1 by GradyPhilpott]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:40 PM by tothetenthpower

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

Well obviously just throwing money at them isn't helping now is it?

And if you had read the rest of the post you would have seen that I mentioned that we do provide A LOT of monetary aid to Africa, however what we do not provide is TOOLS and EDUCATION so that they may better themselves.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and feed him for life.

When we simply throw money at the problem, we get the same old results. Corrupt officials who use the money for something entirely different, or it only goes to ONE aspect of aide just as AIDS or Malarya.

More could be done to help these people. Money is NOT the solution.

~Keeper

[edit on 11/1/2009 by tothetenthpower]

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:40 PM by halfoldman

reply to post by Silver Shadow

True, poverty dehumanizes people. Politis (say, Nazi Germany) dehumanizes people. However, I quote here from Kieth B. Richburg's: "Out of America: A black man confronts Africa" (p. 134, Jonathan Ball, 1997):
"There was one last photograph...this one taken in a Nairobi slum ...shows a boy, maybe a teenager lying flat on his back, being held down by a mob, screaming with terror. One of his hands has been chopped off. An older man is standing over him, gleefully holding what looks like a giant meat cleaver. The older man with the weapon is smiling, preparing to drop down hard and chop off the other hand. The caption explains that the boy has been caught stealing...I became fixated first on the boy's screaming face, but then in the faces of the crowd...they are all laughing and smiling. And I ask myself, what on earth could these people be thinking?"
Truth be told, these scenes are common in townships across SA. Shaka wiped out 25 tribes, Mugabe is doing so now. If Africa is ever to succeed these issues should be addressed.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:42 PM by acmpnsfal

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

China's got the US beat by a lot, they see the value in Africa and are setting up a lot more things that will last long term, from a business perspective anyway.

China vs US in Africa

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:45 PM by acmpnsfal

reply to post by halfoldman

I dont think these issues really need to be addressed. You have to remember that we all have different societal norms, these things will change on their if and when the people want to change them. I mean anything can look barbaric but often times when people in the west look at these things, they forget that the same is present in their society but its just done in a different more subversive way.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:46 PM by GradyPhilpott

reply to post by acmpnsfal

Good for China. Check their record on human rights in since, say, 1949 and get back to me.

More interesting information.

www.news-medical.net...

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:47 PM by halfoldman

reply to post by acmpnsfal

Good point, from a South African perspective (outside the ruling ANC) that is really hypocricy. We fought for freedom and democracy, but the ANC (in line with other African countries) is aligning itself with an undemocratic Chinese regime!

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:55 PM by acmpnsfal

reply to post by GradyPhilpott

Thats an excellent point, Bush and the US govt have done great humanitarian work, I mean look at how much money has been spent in the middle east to free the poor people there from their terrible gov'ts. I mean they have spent over 900 billion dollars and lost countless lives in their humanitarian conquests. I dont know what I was thinking...

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:56 PM by LostNemesis

How come every time there is a problem in the world, everyone looks to America? As has been said, we donate a lot of wealth, under the belief that it is helping people. But what I don't think has been pointed out, is that the Western world is NOT to blame because there is poverty somewhere else in the world.

Why does the world blame America when there is a problem elsewhere? Seriously, it is offensive. America is not keeping Africa down. Honestly, what makes America different from Africa is that it produces more food than necessary to feed the population.

This is not a revolutionary concept, either. If Africa wanted to, they could put their energy into producing food and products and become a wealthy country in its own right. But it would seem, people are too busy being corrupt, producing drugs.. killing each other.

I see America's greatest assets to be, the 2nd amendment, and loads of crop-producing farms. Every other country in the world should be producing their own food, instead of blaming America for doing it.
Honestly, do you think America would send the army to burn up all the farmland, if Africa decided to plant some??

Here I thought that being self-sufficient was common sense, not something to be hated for by the rest of the world.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 06:59 PM by halfoldman

reply to post by acmpnsfal

Yes in the past Europe may have similar instances. But tell me, where in Europe do you get this now? I think black people can do better and it should be expected of them. We have hate speech on a daily basis to deflect from blatant thieving and corruption. We have had xenophobic and black-on-black violence. We have "service delivery" protests where entire communities rise up by burning their libraries and municipal buildings. We have ministers visiting deserted schools where all the "learners' have gone to party in town. Our educational diplomas mean less and less , and although this varies regionally, many of our youngsters are leaving school illiterate. Our roads, our electricity, our public broadcaster, our public hospitals, everything is collapsing or working on a shoestring. And yet, nobody may mention the obvious, or you're a racist.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 07:01 PM by acmpnsfal

reply to post by LostNemesis

No one blamed America exclusively for Africa's problems. The only thing I saw mentioned about it is that it is an enabler.....and if you think America is self sustaining you need to wake up.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 07:01 PM by DOADOA

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
All of us are disadvantaged in some ways..........

I once asked my business partner (who is black) why some black people steal and lie so much.
We are friends enough, and trust each other enough, that he was not insulted by that question.

His reply was:
"If you grew up in absolute poverty in a third world country, you HAVE to take every opportunity you see just to live.
Honest or not",

If you live in a wealthy affluent society, with plenty of food, a secure roof over your head, and money in your pocket, and opportunity for advancement, you can AFFORD to moralise.

He has a point.

.

[edit on 1/11/2009 by Silver Shadow]

i agree with your friend on his answer. however, black people who are provided with many chances here in the united states simply refuse to be helped. i can understand for those who live in third world countries but your question remain without an answer for those who are here.

i have nothing against black people but the behavior of the majority is questionable.

reply posted on 1-11-2009 @ 07:03 PM by paraclete1

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by GradyPhilpott

...Well obviously just throwing money at them isn't helping now is it?

I doubt the money, supplies, whatever actually gets to those that it's really intended for. The money is siphoned off by organizations under the guize of operating cost. The food, supplies are often diverted to the people or areas that become the poster cities/groups. Or it's simply taken by those that are stronger and more ruthless than others.

When Katrina survivors were bused into NWArkansas, supplies delivered to camp for everyone were found stockpiled in one persons cabin. Had he not been caught, they never would have seen the people they were intended to feed.

In times of shortage, most people revert to "survival of the fittest."

And I don't think that mentality is bound to race. I think we're all guilty of it, or could be if the situation arose.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by paraclete1]

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