To sucker paranoids

Originally posted by network dude
telling them they were right and they found me out,

They then raise their eyebrows and nod knowingly and triumphant.

You`re right. Truth sometimes hurts. But to quote the other guy, the EnlightenUp guy:

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
Soon it ceases to hurt, then transmutes to ecstacy.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It's easy to gain a person's confidence with what appears to be an insiders privileged information.

Emphasis on "appears".

9 times out of 10 when someone is talking about secret information, ancient secrets, special inside-knowledge, arcane knowledge, its BS preparing to sell something.

The real "secret information" of high value is to be found in economic espionage nowdays.

SkyFloating you are my favorite mod on here

Yes I have tricked the paranoid and foolhearty. I am always amazed at how gullible people are, most take whatever you say as the truth without question. It seems the people with the lack of a sense of humor are the most easily suckered.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Valid and pertinent information is valid and pertinent information regardless of the subject or topic in my humble opinion.

Whether it's how to get your gravy to turn out smooth, thick and lump free for a roast, or who formulates a government policy and why, or how to maximize on the Stock Exchange if it's valid knowledge it's valid knowledge.

One thing that does perplex me is the defensiveness of the Masons.

Having a secret society would naturally lead to all kinds of speculation about it because of the fact it is a secret society. Why care that people speculate?

I watched the entire ritual re-enactment of the laying of the Capitol's Cornerstone a few years back. The Master Masons from all fifty states convened to dramatize the ceremonial ritual that historical accounts claim was used in the laying of the original cornerstone, complete with some of the same tools used the first time, courtesy of the Library of Congress where they have been stored as artifacts for posterity.

It demonstrated two things, the importance of the Masonic movement's contributions and influence on our society and the fact that some things are steeped in precise rituals of a spiritual nature.

I watched as oil and corn was added to the mortar as each Master Mason (quite a few more than originally participated) added a little bit of mortar with the ceremonial original trowel to the stone.

I did not perceive anything sinister in it (though I would like to see what the original golden plate has inscribed on it that was buried along with the original cornerstone in the foundation) yet like all ritualistic ceremonies it was steeped in mystery simply because it's not something one commonly sees from day to day.

These things of course lead to speculation and curiosity and where there is speculation soon accusation is bound to follow.

Me personally when keeping a secret I just laugh and say wouldn't you like to know or none of your business.

I don't denounce or attempt to ridicule people for attempting to guess at what I willfully refuse to tell them!

I am wise enough to know that they are simply trying to arrive at the hidden truth through the process of elimination!

Since I am purposefully keeping the truth a secret, I have no compelling reason to discount any accusation for that reason of helping them arrive at the secret through the process of elimination.

I hate to say it by I find many of the Mason's defensive attitudes about their participation in the organization to be a sign of insecurity that well just seems odd for people who see a better path in an organization that is supposed to be about a shared philosophy towards life.

They say there is strength and security in numbers, you wouldn't know that though based on the defensive and offended posture so many Masons take when encountering natural curiosity and the inevitable accusations that are bound to follow.

Personally I don’t have any reason to fear the Masons or be distrustful to them, they have nicely put themselves into a group and have divided and conquered and negated themselves in the process.

Why people trap themselves in one box or another in a very fluid universe I haven’t a clue! That’s one piece of information I am never looking to come by!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
One thing that does perplex me is the defensiveness of the Masons.

A few odd posters on the internet does not make "the" masons. I know quite a few who arent even familiar with anti-masonic literature.

Why care that people speculate?

Im interested in it as a psychological phenomenon with no desire or even ability to oppose it.

It demonstrated two things, the importance of the Masonic movement's contributions and influence on our society and the fact that some things are steeped in precise rituals of a spiritual nature.

Correct.

yet like all ritualistic ceremonies it was steeped in mystery simply because it's not something one commonly sees from day to day. These things of course lead to speculation and curiosity and where there is speculation soon accusation is bound to follow.

I understand. Behavior not explained raises questions.

Why people trap themselves in one box or another in a very fluid universe I haven’t a clue! That’s one piece of information I am never looking to come by!

Normally people join something to learn something (natural curiosity). If I join a sports club its not that Im caught in a box. I can just as well join other clubs or leave the sports club.

(Of course its different with cults - those are the ones who forbid you to join anything other than their club)

Originally posted by HotSauce
people with the lack of a sense of humor are the most easily suckered.

Yeah, very much so. Very much so. Sense of humor is a great protection. Fanaticism makes one vulnerable.

Those darn Freemasons and their cocky threads!

They never stops to amaze me, they are just popping up everywhere!

reply to post by Skyfloating

Im interested in it as a psychological phenomenon with no desire or even ability to oppose it.

This is basic human nature, an inherent curiosity and an underlying desire to know, and by extension know where one stands. It has given rise to absurd religions, occults, sciences, prophecies most of them based on sheer speculation to provide answers any answer to those in desperate need of an answer to overcome their fear of the unknown by quantifying.

People do this in basic ways by asking, by challenging, by accusing, by theorizing etc, etc,

People have a deeply seeded desire to ‘know’ things, even if what they imagine they ‘know’ isn’t valid to anyone but them, but eliminates their need to worry about ‘not knowing’.

People have a deep seeded need to avoid personal responsibility and to often blame their own shortcomings or lost wagers on a horse on another horse. Their horse lost it’s because of the Zionists, or the Masons, or the Illuminati or the Reptilians or the Liberals or the Conservatives, not because the horse they saw virtue in was flawed but because some other horse cheated in the race.

This too is human nature. Empathy and walking a mile in other people’s moccasins answers most of these questions.

Intolerance, ego, vanity, a false sense of superiority simply further sews the seeds of chaos, misunderstanding and distrust. Naturally people involved in keeping secrets within a secret society share an equal burden in that regard.

But as I say the natural inclination is always to blame the other guy and to avoid responsibility and culpability at all costs.

This is in essence why figuratively all roads lead to Rome because no matter what the failed philosophy one espouses or what they imagine it’s value it leads to the same eventual place, chaos, misunderstanding, arguments, distrust and mass uncertainty.

There are two sides to every coin my friend.

Rome offers you war or peace. It matters not to Rome which you decide.

Rome just prefers that you and everyone else be divided by a two sided argument and accept that the coin offered is worth arguing over.

Meanwhile life goes on despite the divisions, it just goes on slowly and in failed fits and starts because of the division.

House rules tend to lead to all players eventually loosing my friend.


[edit on 2/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The OP is about Discernment. The merit of Discernment. A paranoid-mindset can be used for the constructive - to uncover that which was hidden. Or it can be abused and even cause suffering in ones own life and that of others. False information can cause real-life suffering. Therefore discernment can be one path to happiness.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Intolerance, ego, vanity, a false sense of superiority simply further sews the seeds of chaos, misunderstanding and distrust. Naturally people involved in keeping secrets within a secret society share an equal burden in that regard.

There is nothing about Freemasonry that cant be found on Google. Therefore, masons having "secrets" is a myth. If someone is looking for secrets and power it would be more appropriate to go to Silicon Valley or Wall Street for some trade-secrets, rather than a Lodge.

Freemasonry = Secret was more than a hundred years ago.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Rome is not interested in your or anyone else’s basic happiness my friend. Rome is interested in your productivity and not challenging the status quo. Rome likes to keep people divided and opposed against one another to further and ensure its dominance.

Choose to keep secrets; you invite the curiosity and fear of those you keep secrets from. You invite speculation, allegation and fear.

Rome recognizes the inability of people to take full responsibility for their actions in this regard. For every action there is a reaction, whether it is paranoia or slander, love and lust, fear and hate.

If one’s actions are causing reactions that are troubling to the one whose actions cause these reactions wisdom and logic would dictate reevaluating and changing one’s actions as a means to change one’s reactions.

Lamenting the reactions caused by actions purposefully and willfully undertaken is as flawed a mind set as that on the other side of the coin.

You can not see this because it does not serve the nature of your action or collective actions in the manner in which you envisioned. You prefer to imagine this is another party’s shortcoming instead of your own.

Your path is obstructed as a result; it contains detours you wish did not exist.

Tying your fortunes to others and binding your fortunes to others comes with these inherent risks.

Crying will not help you, praying will do you no good!

Lamentations are for women and the defeated.

Changing your actions and path might serve you better but your own freewill determines that.

Your freewill though can’t supplant others on their behalf and the notion that it can is sheer folly.

Rome simply creates order out of this chaos to serve itself to its own end.

Rome allows you to choose any path; you might though want to consider that your own path to enlightenment and understanding is just that, your own path.

Misery loves company and as you get closer to your own destination people will try all the harder to dissuade you from that path.

This is life friend, make of it what you can, focus on the good and your own truths, it all works out eventually.

wow! i've never actually done it to a conspiracy theorist, but i have manipulated countless people with rather exotic "facts." Whats worse is when they start creating their own theories based on the "fact" you told them though.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Intolerance, ego, vanity, a false sense of superiority simply further sews the seeds of chaos, misunderstanding and distrust. Naturally people involved in keeping secrets within a secret society share an equal burden in that regard.

There is nothing about Freemasonry that cant be found on Google. Therefore, masons having "secrets" is a myth. If someone is looking for secrets and power it would be more appropriate to go to Silicon Valley or Wall Street for some trade-secrets, rather than a Lodge.

Freemasonry = Secret was more than a hundred years ago.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

So you might better understand the cause of your own consternation friend, stating what one doesn’t have or isn’t is not as precisely defining as what one does have and is.

It is through this thinking that you invite and encourage the curious to undergo the process of elimination through theorizing and speculating to undertake the ongoing process of elimination until that which has not been eliminated defines something that refuses to define itself for precisely what it is, but rather chooses to define itself through what it purports it is not.

For a person of your vast intelligence and inherent wisdom it is somewhat astounding to me that these basic premises and truths in this regard altogether escape you.

Though I kindly point them out so that you might better understand the true source of what so frustrates you as being your responsibility and not those of others who are naturally curious and desire to know.

Logic can be your friend in this regard if you simply allow it to be!

It makes me wonder how many people on this website would survive a troll....

It makes me wonder how many people on this website would survive a troll....

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Your sophism reads like a cipher, completely unintelligeble to me.

I neither feel "consternation" and "frustration" nor do I care what Rome thinks about my happiness.

Could you put into one or two sentences your point as it relates to the OP?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Are you saying "Freemasons are responsible for anti-masonic conspiracy-theory"?

Is that what you are saying? If so, you could have said it in one sentence.

Neither would I deny that mystery plays a part in creating paranoia.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Its strange how those the most afraid of being manipulated are the easiest to manipulate...

Whether we are conscious of our flaws, vulnerabilities, or short-comings, we are at least subconsciously aware of them. Our psyche therefore will obsess with irrational fear on the things that take advantage of those flaws and vulnerabilities so that we may overcome them, rather than avoid them. However, it is still a most curious phenomena and you are correct in noticing such.

However, as for joking in jest, it is not done with the intent to harm. Laughter and humor are some of the few positive conditions universal to the Human Condition. However, having a sense of humor is apparently not universal to all Humans. If you can't laugh and make fun of yourself, then you are taking things far too seriously. When the hazing jokes about goats start flying amongst Freemasons, it's just that...making fun of oneself by using the fear-mongering as an opportunity to laugh and make light of what would otherwise be a potentially stressful situation.

Humor is the emergence of the enlightened, humor is the teaching of truth. Humor is harmony in the community, humor the austerity of those in harmony.
~Dhammapada

Before enlightenment, a whoopee cushion is funny;
when you realize enlightenment a whoopee cushion isn't funny;
after enlightenment a whoopee cushion is funny again.
~ J. WILSON

I remember serving door guard for an initiation in a non-Masonic Lodge one time. There were 6 candidates preparing to take their initiation. The first one goes in while the other 5 wait outside. About 20 minutes into the initiation we heard the sound of furniture being toppled, screaming, and frantic sounds of panic. A few minutes later everything quieted down while the 5 candidates in waiting started getting noticeably nervous. After the first candidate emerged from the initiation chamber, everyone noticed that his hair was still smoldering, his clothing torn, burned and singed, and he was soaked head to toe doused in wine. In between bouts of laughter he finally states upon emerging "Best Initiation Ever!" at which point the other 5 candidates flee and make a run for it. These weren't candidates that had never initiated before, but those who had undergone numerous initiation ceremonies with the same group for years. However, their irrational fears and apprehension were only all the more exaggerated when faced with humor from the first candidate.

If laughter is a sign of enlightenment, could it be a matter of the Ego and it's need for self-preservation that triggers a flight instead of fight response to prevent the chance of contagious enlightenment?

Fear is oftentimes irrational. And those that give in to their fears are even more irrational. Most of all, we will willingly entertain and believe the most outlandish of ideas that reinforce what our Ego already believes, all as a form of avoidance.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Your sophism reads like a cipher, completely unintelligeble to me.

I neither feel "consternation" and "frustration" nor do I care what Rome thinks about my happiness.

Could you put into one or two sentences your point as it relates to the OP?

This revelation and admission would not altogether surprise me based on your original post.

Fortunately for some they have seen something in my comments and opinions that they find a resonating value in.

My comments and insights are based entirely on better understanding what causes people to be ‘paranoid’ and to look for answers of any nature from any source that eases their fears.

In many ways your post is superficial in a regard of “Houston we have a problem”, followed by “Houston lets goof on the problem”, followed by lets not delve into the nature of the problem, followed by lets just attempt to humiliate people based on the problem.

It contains one example based on one organization and its policies and ways and how some people concerned about the organization’s power and influence and possible and potential effect on their life have an inherent fear about it based on their lack of knowledge in how it works.

We could exchange the organization in the Original Post for any of dozens of similar organizations that utilize ritual, a pyramid like hierarchy and secrets kept amongst its members to highlight the phenomena regarding typical human reactions to such things.

I prefer not to focus on the Masons specifically to do this because then it becomes politically about the Masons and this is about human behavior not promoting or demoting the Masons.

That is unless the entire point of your original post was to politically promote the Masons in some regard.

You know your own intentions in this regard better than I do.

I have simply been talking about the things that cause the paranoia and fears and uncertainties and the willingness to latch on to any additional information regarding a subject regardless of its dubious nature, validity or source.

It’s either been amazingly clear to many people or impressively baffling!

Simply put my friend you are looking for a band aide for a situation that ails, where as I am speaking to the cure.


[edit on 2/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by iamoverrated

 

Jimmy Pages involvement in the Occult was very serious and very real. So was John Bonhams and to a lesser extent Robert Plants. John Paul Jones did his best never to stay in the same Hotel or on the same floor with the rest of them and posted an armed guard at his hotel room door at night to ward off the intrusions of his band mates.

The three of them lived it and breathed it, Plant eventually realized it was creating bad karma after his accident and then his son's death. The circumstances of Bonham's curious death ended any illusion in regard to what they were in fact involved with.

It's all fun and games until you start loosing your kids and your drummer and then sorry is never enough!

Ok this is where I step in...I call Bs on all of your innocent assumptions. You cant read and watch TV to get your news about such things, having personally partied with JP, and sent my little sis to visit him at his home to say hi from me, (Damn where is that address and phone number now?)

I have to say you are really wrong.

To stay on track with the thread I will add that it is always a matter of perspective, often what ppl harbor deep within they will place on others so that they can judge rather than take responsibility.

As always Sky, you are right on.