To sucker paranoids, page 3

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Valid and pertinent information is valid and pertinent information regardless of the subject or topic in my humble opinion.

Whether it's how to get your gravy to turn out smooth, thick and lump free for a roast, or who formulates a government policy and why, or how to maximize on the Stock Exchange if it's valid knowledge it's valid knowledge.

One thing that does perplex me is the defensiveness of the Masons.

Having a secret society would naturally lead to all kinds of speculation about it because of the fact it is a secret society. Why care that people speculate?

I watched the entire ritual re-enactment of the laying of the Capitol's Cornerstone a few years back. The Master Masons from all fifty states convened to dramatize the ceremonial ritual that historical accounts claim was used in the laying of the original cornerstone, complete with some of the same tools used the first time, courtesy of the Library of Congress where they have been stored as artifacts for posterity.

It demonstrated two things, the importance of the Masonic movement's contributions and influence on our society and the fact that some things are steeped in precise rituals of a spiritual nature.

I watched as oil and corn was added to the mortar as each Master Mason (quite a few more than originally participated) added a little bit of mortar with the ceremonial original trowel to the stone.

I did not perceive anything sinister in it (though I would like to see what the original golden plate has inscribed on it that was buried along with the original cornerstone in the foundation) yet like all ritualistic ceremonies it was steeped in mystery simply because it's not something one commonly sees from day to day.

These things of course lead to speculation and curiosity and where there is speculation soon accusation is bound to follow.

Me personally when keeping a secret I just laugh and say wouldn't you like to know or none of your business.

I don't denounce or attempt to ridicule people for attempting to guess at what I willfully refuse to tell them!

I am wise enough to know that they are simply trying to arrive at the hidden truth through the process of elimination!

Since I am purposefully keeping the truth a secret, I have no compelling reason to discount any accusation for that reason of helping them arrive at the secret through the process of elimination.

I hate to say it by I find many of the Mason's defensive attitudes about their participation in the organization to be a sign of insecurity that well just seems odd for people who see a better path in an organization that is supposed to be about a shared philosophy towards life.

They say there is strength and security in numbers, you wouldn't know that though based on the defensive and offended posture so many Masons take when encountering natural curiosity and the inevitable accusations that are bound to follow.

Personally I don’t have any reason to fear the Masons or be distrustful to them, they have nicely put themselves into a group and have divided and conquered and negated themselves in the process.

Why people trap themselves in one box or another in a very fluid universe I haven’t a clue! That’s one piece of information I am never looking to come by!

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Im interested in it as a psychological phenomenon with no desire or even ability to oppose it.

This is basic human nature, an inherent curiosity and an underlying desire to know, and by extension know where one stands. It has given rise to absurd religions, occults, sciences, prophecies most of them based on sheer speculation to provide answers any answer to those in desperate need of an answer to overcome their fear of the unknown by quantifying.

People do this in basic ways by asking, by challenging, by accusing, by theorizing etc, etc,

People have a deeply seeded desire to ‘know’ things, even if what they imagine they ‘know’ isn’t valid to anyone but them, but eliminates their need to worry about ‘not knowing’.

People have a deep seeded need to avoid personal responsibility and to often blame their own shortcomings or lost wagers on a horse on another horse. Their horse lost it’s because of the Zionists, or the Masons, or the Illuminati or the Reptilians or the Liberals or the Conservatives, not because the horse they saw virtue in was flawed but because some other horse cheated in the race.

This too is human nature. Empathy and walking a mile in other people’s moccasins answers most of these questions.

Intolerance, ego, vanity, a false sense of superiority simply further sews the seeds of chaos, misunderstanding and distrust. Naturally people involved in keeping secrets within a secret society share an equal burden in that regard.

But as I say the natural inclination is always to blame the other guy and to avoid responsibility and culpability at all costs.

This is in essence why figuratively all roads lead to Rome because no matter what the failed philosophy one espouses or what they imagine it’s value it leads to the same eventual place, chaos, misunderstanding, arguments, distrust and mass uncertainty.

There are two sides to every coin my friend.

Rome offers you war or peace. It matters not to Rome which you decide.

Rome just prefers that you and everyone else be divided by a two sided argument and accept that the coin offered is worth arguing over.

Meanwhile life goes on despite the divisions, it just goes on slowly and in failed fits and starts because of the division.

House rules tend to lead to all players eventually loosing my friend.


[edit on 2/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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The OP is about Discernment. The merit of Discernment. A paranoid-mindset can be used for the constructive - to uncover that which was hidden. Or it can be abused and even cause suffering in ones own life and that of others. False information can cause real-life suffering. Therefore discernment can be one path to happiness.

reply to post by Skyfloating

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Rome is not interested in your or anyone else’s basic happiness my friend. Rome is interested in your productivity and not challenging the status quo. Rome likes to keep people divided and opposed against one another to further and ensure its dominance.

Choose to keep secrets; you invite the curiosity and fear of those you keep secrets from. You invite speculation, allegation and fear.

Rome recognizes the inability of people to take full responsibility for their actions in this regard. For every action there is a reaction, whether it is paranoia or slander, love and lust, fear and hate.

If one’s actions are causing reactions that are troubling to the one whose actions cause these reactions wisdom and logic would dictate reevaluating and changing one’s actions as a means to change one’s reactions.

Lamenting the reactions caused by actions purposefully and willfully undertaken is as flawed a mind set as that on the other side of the coin.

You can not see this because it does not serve the nature of your action or collective actions in the manner in which you envisioned. You prefer to imagine this is another party’s shortcoming instead of your own.

Your path is obstructed as a result; it contains detours you wish did not exist.

Tying your fortunes to others and binding your fortunes to others comes with these inherent risks.

Crying will not help you, praying will do you no good!

Lamentations are for women and the defeated.

Changing your actions and path might serve you better but your own freewill determines that.

Your freewill though can’t supplant others on their behalf and the notion that it can is sheer folly.

Rome simply creates order out of this chaos to serve itself to its own end.

Rome allows you to choose any path; you might though want to consider that your own path to enlightenment and understanding is just that, your own path.

Misery loves company and as you get closer to your own destination people will try all the harder to dissuade you from that path.

This is life friend, make of it what you can, focus on the good and your own truths, it all works out eventually.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Your sophism reads like a cipher, completely unintelligeble to me.

I neither feel "consternation" and "frustration" nor do I care what Rome thinks about my happiness.

Could you put into one or two sentences your point as it relates to the OP?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Are you saying "Freemasons are responsible for anti-masonic conspiracy-theory"?

Is that what you are saying? If so, you could have said it in one sentence.

Neither would I deny that mystery plays a part in creating paranoia.

[edit on 2-11-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

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Your sophism reads like a cipher, completely unintelligeble to me.

I neither feel "consternation" and "frustration" nor do I care what Rome thinks about my happiness.

Could you put into one or two sentences your point as it relates to the OP?

This revelation and admission would not altogether surprise me based on your original post.

Fortunately for some they have seen something in my comments and opinions that they find a resonating value in.

My comments and insights are based entirely on better understanding what causes people to be ‘paranoid’ and to look for answers of any nature from any source that eases their fears.

In many ways your post is superficial in a regard of “Houston we have a problem”, followed by “Houston lets goof on the problem”, followed by lets not delve into the nature of the problem, followed by lets just attempt to humiliate people based on the problem.

It contains one example based on one organization and its policies and ways and how some people concerned about the organization’s power and influence and possible and potential effect on their life have an inherent fear about it based on their lack of knowledge in how it works.

We could exchange the organization in the Original Post for any of dozens of similar organizations that utilize ritual, a pyramid like hierarchy and secrets kept amongst its members to highlight the phenomena regarding typical human reactions to such things.

I prefer not to focus on the Masons specifically to do this because then it becomes politically about the Masons and this is about human behavior not promoting or demoting the Masons.

That is unless the entire point of your original post was to politically promote the Masons in some regard.

You know your own intentions in this regard better than I do.

I have simply been talking about the things that cause the paranoia and fears and uncertainties and the willingness to latch on to any additional information regarding a subject regardless of its dubious nature, validity or source.

It’s either been amazingly clear to many people or impressively baffling!

Simply put my friend you are looking for a band aide for a situation that ails, where as I am speaking to the cure.


[edit on 2/11/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by iamoverrated

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Jimmy Pages involvement in the Occult was very serious and very real. So was John Bonhams and to a lesser extent Robert Plants. John Paul Jones did his best never to stay in the same Hotel or on the same floor with the rest of them and posted an armed guard at his hotel room door at night to ward off the intrusions of his band mates.

The three of them lived it and breathed it, Plant eventually realized it was creating bad karma after his accident and then his son's death. The circumstances of Bonham's curious death ended any illusion in regard to what they were in fact involved with.

It's all fun and games until you start loosing your kids and your drummer and then sorry is never enough!

Ok this is where I step in...I call Bs on all of your innocent assumptions. You cant read and watch TV to get your news about such things, having personally partied with JP, and sent my little sis to visit him at his home to say hi from me, (Damn where is that address and phone number now?)

I have to say you are really wrong.

To stay on track with the thread I will add that it is always a matter of perspective, often what ppl harbor deep within they will place on others so that they can judge rather than take responsibility.

As always Sky, you are right on.

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