Number of victims to unknown virus growing! State of emergency to be imposed in Ukraine?

Thanks to beumont for finding this, meet the actual Joseph Moshe.

If you dig enough you'll find the entire basis of the conspiracy was built on falsehood.

(I retired at 40, incidentally. I get to do what I want now. I never worked for the White House, I did do work for the government as well as most of the fortune 500 working in technology and bio-technology. I also worked as a journalist at one time back in my youth until I found out first hand what the press really is. My profile has always detailed my professional background).

Not that who or what I am is the subject of the thread but some people will do just about anything to try and discredit me for some weird reason.....

[edit on 16-11-2009 by ecoparity]

I went back a few pages, and looked for anyone having found this link. I know there have been rumblings about why this hasn't been in the press, so here it is.

Not sure about the reliability of this press, but I found the link on Drudgereport after having seen a generic swine flu link there about a week ago referencing Ukraine.

This one goes a bit further. I speaks of the pneumonic plague and mutations.

www.express.co.uk...

A DEADLY plague could sweep across Europe, doctors fear, after an outbreak of a virus in Ukraine plunged the country and its neighbours into a state of panic.


A cocktail of three flu viruses are reported to have mutated into a single pneumonic plague, which it is believed may be far more dangerous than swine flu. The death toll has reached 189 and more than 1 million people have been infected, most of them in the nine regions of Western Ukraine.

President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko has called in the World Health Organisation and a team of nine specialists are carrying out tests in Kiev and Lviv to identify the virus. Samples have been sent to London for analysis.

It reads similar to some of the other posts I have seen, so if it is just different contex of the same, my apologies. I haven't been able to keep close tabs on this thread every day, but I do try to read as I can.

It closes with the "lungs black as charcoal' statement.

I know I had seen some references to blog posts, and the reason I posted this was because of the media having not talked about it, so I was wondering if this was perhaps the beginning. Hopefully, this isn't an Enquirer type tabloid.

Again, apologies if this has already been referenced.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by Libertygal]

[edit on 17-11-2009 by Libertygal]

That's amazing how the same older article keeps getting cut up and reposted on other news and media sites. No complaint on your post, just taken aback a bit. I've never seen so much plagiarism on a subject before.

There are other Ukraine news articles which counter the bad info in that one and they get ignored in order to keep spreading those details around.

Am I alone in being amazed by this? It's like someone is working very, very hard to push a specific story on Ukraine.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by ecoparity


I am just curious as to which version is going to break in the US, as last time I looked, I wasn't able to find anything besides generic swine flu articles, stating they had the swine flu and seasonal flu hit all at once.

The above referenced article does seem to go a bit further about mutations and pneumonic plague.

Reminds me of the game we played in school where you whisper something to someone and see how it ends up with the last person.

Is it going to hit the US media at all? Or will it be just another swine flu, or the pneumonic plague by the time it does?

reply to post by Libertygal


The NY times did a decent article on it: Fragile Care You may have to register a free account to read it, sorry.

The entire "plague" thing was a bad translation by Google, a poster here who speaks Ukrainain told us it really said "there is a plague of pneumonia cases". The worst swine flu cases result in bleeding in the lungs or bad pneumonia.

All the official lab testing says it's just swine flu, no new viruses or major mutations but since day one various people in govt in Ukraine had spread the rumors.

The Dr's association in Ukraine released a statement telling people not to listen to the rumors, there is no plague or other viruses and so on. I can try and dig it up for you if you want but it was Ukrainian news so it may take a while to search out.

reply to post by ecoparity


i'm afraid real government agents are far more stealth than one talking about own dead body with onion sticked up own ass. and seriously... it has to be a pain for some, when everything they were spreading as 'the only holy truth', appears to be false. apparently they don't get it that people in ukraine, and soon all over the world, have bigger problems because of the situation than who made up the right theory.

reply to post by Libertygal


I missed the "which version" question. It depends on where you stand on the popular conspiracy theory. According to it there is no swine flu, Ukraine and now Poland are being sprayed with a bio weapon, exactly which varies with new candidates popping up daily.

The science community says the swine flu has probably mutated slightly in two key regions which affect how badly it infects the lungs, making it much more deadly and much better at infecting people. This is based on genetic sequences from Brazil and Argentina which were released just prior to Ukraine breaking out.

Both of the patients died in those cases and both had the worst symptoms (hemorrhagic fever, bleeding lungs, etc) and both had these two small mutations in the samples.

The WHO took samples from Ukraine but hasn't released the genetic sequences yet. All they have said is that the samples came up as swine flu and that "no major changes" were found while dodging questions about smaller mutations. The WHO has delayed releasing results several times, usually when the news is bad.

Virology email lists are reporting that the Ukraine variant is in Canada now and there has been an increase in deaths over the past few days there.

Though in private they discount the "three viruses combined into something new" statement from the news article there is a historic example from the 1918 swine flu when a large number of deaths in the second wave developed a co-infection of swine flu and another seasonal flu. They didn't know it back then, it only came out after genetic testing of the frozen bodies back in 98 or so, (I believe, not sure on the year).

The "official" stance from WHO is that H1N1 has displaced all seasonal flus and the seasonal flu vaccines were pulled in favor of just H1N1 vaccines in the recent past.

The delay of those results from the WHO is just feeding speculation like mad. Even when they come out people will accuse them of lying when they don't match all the various theories but some of us want to see those reports very badly regardless.

There is no indication that the swine flu vaccine won't work on this Ukraine mutation and Tamiflu has been working on patients there.

reply to post by jedi_hamster


They would probably write "he, really, really wanted to live" on my tombstone.

I'd prefer to stick those onions in some Illuminati rear ends. Or cabbage, cabbage sounds better.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by ecoparity


Eco, can you give any more info on the mailing lists you refer to? Or what was said in them precisely?

I also think it might have jumped to Ontario, but other than that 1 newspaper report from a few days ago, I can't find any corroborating evidence.

Also do you know if there's a thread on ATS covering it? If not, might be a good time to start one.


And on another note, I'm watching the movie Toxic Skies (about Chemtrails and viruses), and it makes me want to shoot myself in the face, watching these doctors refer to "bubonic plague" as a virus OVER AND OVER. No wonder people are so ignorant on the matter. Also, it's rediculous that they use "guess work" to figure out what the "virus" is, instead of actual culture tests or genome analysis. Instead they just guess and try to use treatments.

The parallels in this movie are eerily similar to the Ukraine situation, but in my opinion this movie is too retarded and low budget to be Illuminati affiliated, they always at least do their research before indoctrinating us.

[edit on 17-11-2009 by seattletruth]

reply to post by ecoparity


Hi Eco, I'm not being argumentative here, but the Joseph Moshe / Joseph Moshe - Bar mis identification is actually pretty old news.
I think it was discovered not long after he was arrested.

But since it was not built on this issue but mistakenly put forward after the fact, I don't see how it negates everything.

And you have to wonder why such extremes to arrest this man, and where exactly is the evidence against him?

I agree that the grounds for that part of the conspiracy is shaky.
All we have is second hand testimony. We can't be sure exactly what he said. Dr Ott only said he thinks it was the same man who called.

The only things that seem relevant is the reference to the time and place.

While I disagree with some of your positions, I do actually agree with a good deal of your posts.

I'd just like to add Bioweapons are not all about the death toll. Swine flu is doing what it was designed to do. IMO.

reply to post by seattletruth


I hate to say it because it will just feed the monsters but bubonic plague is actually something they could spread via airplane dusting.

The Japanese did it to the Chinese back in WW2 using plague infected fleas and a sophisticated "soft" bomb that blew them out in mid air, low enough to survive and go to work.

Bio weapons and chemical weapons are designed to infect on contact but not be contagious. They want to impact a precise area / population and not worry about the disease or chemical spreading too far beyond the target.

Studies of smallpox and other viral contagions were aimed towards finding ways to neuter them so they would infect on contact but not spread from person to person or were stable pathogens without a mutation threat so the home team could be immunized without worry of a blue on blue incident.

Influenza would be very low on the list of things they would use. Not only will it mutate and cannot be vaccinated against with absolute certainty but it jumps species meaning it could potentially threaten livestock.

Nature handles flu pandemics just fine, all they had to do was wait around for the next one to happen while getting all the plans in place. A 20 to 30 year cycle for the really bad ones is manageable. They get lesser ones more often for practice as well.

It just doesn't make sense to me, why risk exposure faking something you just have to wait for and that will accomplish the same goals without any overt action on your part other than pushing the conspiracy along? Anyway, sliding off topic again, sorry.

reply to post by squiz


Any time the subject of the conspiracy comes up the two main pillars of the argument are the Moshe incident and the Jane Burgerbilder lawsuit.

Both are complete disinfo operations but they have become established fact in the conspiracy community, patriot community and alt media.

It's not just that, however. People claim over and over again that the vaccines all have squalene in them in the US when none of them do.

It just seems like the entire conspiracy is built on lies. Every time I check into something I find bad / dis info behind it.

That kind of thing sets off huge alarms with me, especially when it's these groups doing it. I don't know of another conspiracy so widely reported on with this much false information behind it.

To me it looks like a set up. The really disturbing part is having all these alt media sources whom I listen to / read and value as sources of information proving to me absolutely that they will report something that is not true.

I expect that of the mainstream media, not these other folks. Sure they make mistakes but I expect them to check into these things. It hasn't been at all difficult for me to do it.

Personally, I wasn't aware of the Moshe discovery, I knew it had some bad information in it (people claiming the caller into the show was definitely Moshe when it wasn't known) but I didn't know anyone had proven the man arrested wasn't the man they claimed he was as well.

The quote I read from Dr Ott stated that he thought the man was a nut case and wasn't paying attention so he couldn't ID the man in the video as the caller.

The alternative media really needs to step up and get right on this. They will have zero credibility even among the community when it's over if they don't. Sure, some will choose to believe all this stuff forever no matter what happens but IMO, anyone willing to dig for the proof will find the truth.

(Hey, I feel like Jesse Jackson / Tina Turner / OJ's attorney) Dig for proof, find the truth! Two men enter, one man leaves... If the glove fits, you must stop now and hit submit.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by ecoparity]

OK I started a thread for tracking the Canadian outbreak. Hopefully we can find out in the next few days if the Ukrainian strain really has jumped the pond.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by seattletruth


I thought Toxic Skies was an enjoyable film, can you actually get it on DVD in the states? Is it really banned?

Anyway there is a bit of truth to it. I mentioned one of the key components in the Bio weapons game is immune deficiency.

You see they just can't dump a toxic substance to kill. Even in war this is a crime. By destroying the immune system you are left vulnerable for something else to kill you or be incapacitated. And no one is the wiser. And much better if over an extended period of time if possible.

Again it's not always about instant death, It's a means to an end, whatever that end may be.

I think it is deliberate, and it could have many purposes besides population control. Also it looks like it could be the start of the second wave, only the start. Perhaps the Ukraine situation was setup to further the virulence of the strain. This is what I was thinking from the start. Accident or not that seems to be the case.

Get ready for "swine eleven stage II".

reply to post by squiz


Squiz,
So, in your opinion, what exactly was the swine flu created to achieve?

reply to post by ecoparity


Well I agree actually, but it's not just conspiracy theories it's the media and word of mouth in general. Even history to a certain extent.
And sometimes things are planted to throw the suspicious of the trail. This is what disinfo is, truth and lies together.

When you strip away all the Moshe stuff there is not much there I agree except for the few things I mentioned. But the mistaken identity does not actually change much.

I posted about Moshe identity in another thread.
I'd had to ask why a microbiologists specializing in bio weapons would even have an online profile? seems a bit silly, yes?

reply to post by squiz


I downloaded Toxic Skies, don't know if its available to rent..
Also I agree by your remark that bio-weapons are not always about death count.. I believe there is a high probability that this swine flu (or even this mutation) has been forced upon us. But any "conventional" bioweapon is about death count, and that is really what most people are claiming this is.


And reply to Eco - I know pneumonic plague has been weaponized by many countries and can be put in an aerosol. It's safe to say that every modern virus has been weaponized by Soviet, USA and China. Using super-absorbant polymers they can keep any bacteria or virus alive in a cloud pretty easily.. But whether that has any bearing on the Ukrainian outbreak is another matter. Atleast we know none of these were used in Ukraine tho, none of them have any cures or treatment. They specifically design them to circumvent antivirals /antibiotics.

reply to post by really


as eco suggests... false conspiracy theory, imho, together with depopulation. look at the world, only small percentage of people wants the vaccine. and what if, despite the side effects, caused by extreme use of crap like squalene and mercury, at least in european vaccines, to reduce production costs, what if those vaccines are meant to protect the sheeple from H1N1? what if that's exactly what NWO wants - so that people will refuse to take the vaccine, and only small amount of sheeple obeying their masters will survive? what if all this conspiracy theory about H1N1 being a hoax and vaccine being a bioweapon isn't true, and if not with lifes, conspiracy theorists will pay with credibility, and noone will listen to them later, when they'll be really needed? what if it's a set up, and you're all wrong?

you should take a look at eco's thread mentioned in his signature. for those interested in chemtrails offtopic, there are few posts about it as well at the end of that thread.


[edit on 17-11-2009 by jedi_hamster]

reply to post by really


Well at first I thought it was all about the money, then I realized it's money and geo political manoeuvrings for power.

I think many non conspiracy theorists even agree to that. The ones I know anyway.

Now I think it was destined to mutate or recombine, perhaps not for population control. I'm not quite there yet but it does happen.
Eg. look into DDT and malaria in Africa.

Maybe it's to further the dependence on vaccination against new emerging diseases. Which always, always happens after mass vaccinations.

Check out what Len Horowitz has to say, his comments seem to be quite prophetic. I know Len's pretty out there, but he's entertaining.
And surprisingly a lot of his information checks out.



[edit on 17-11-2009 by squiz]

reply to post by jedi_hamster


i think there would be way more credible sources telling the public not to take the vaccine if that where the case....

but i like the way you think